Originally Posted by sofiecusion
Oh, how right you are. I think they are craving attention (even though they are the center of their parents universe when they are home). They may be saying that they are craving discipline and boundaries. They continue to be violent with one another because it's "acceptable" to dad's "boys will be boys" philosophy and it gets everyone's attention. They like to be the center of everyone's attention all the time!
They like to argue with everyone, even adults. They have lots of temper tantrums (to get their way), refuse to listen to rules or when you ask them to do anything), blame others for their mishaps and obnoxious behavior, get angry VERY easily. They are both the definition of defiant. Both have these issues to some extent, but some of the traits are more present in one compared to the other.
I'm at a loss. At what point do I give up???
If your going to give up anyway, be frank with the parents. Tell them flat out that these boys have nothing wrong with them other than they are allowed to behave this way. Rules and boundries are necessary. Parents are not loving their children less because they hold them to standards and let the kids be upset. In fact, they are loving them more. It's unreasonable to believe you are doing your kid good by not allowing him to feel disappointed, to fail, to lose, to be angry. Every single one of us has these feelings as humans. A parent's job is to teach the child HOW to have these feelings, not to stifle them.
Besides, what's going to happen when they grow up? Do you really think they'll be successful in life and career if they expect everyone will bend over backwards for them or give in if they make a fuss???? They are doing these kids harm by trying to protect them from not getting their way.
Worst case, the parents fire you and probably have a tantrum of their own. But, if you're giving up anyway, at least you made a last ditch effort to help the poor kids before their parents baby them into teenaged hellions destined for prison.
I wish I had a magic solution to wake the parents up, but unfortunately some people are convinced that, if something is wrong, it's always someone else's fault.