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Has A Human Clone Been Created??????????

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
When I was at work this morning I saw something on TV about a woman who is 8 months pregnant with a cloned baby boy. Since I was at work, I'm not even sure what program this was on. They didn't give a lot of details, but I think this is really scarey.
I also found a related article...

Wednesday, November 27, 2002 8:45 a.m. EST

By Patricia Reaney

LONDON (Reuters) - Will 2003 be the year of the first human clone? An Italian fertility expert says a patient will give birth to a cloned baby early next year but experts, including one who helped create Dolly the sheep, are skeptical. Dr. Severino Antinori told a news conference in Rome on Tuesday that the cloned baby is due in January.

The maverick doctor gained fame nearly a decade ago when he helped a 62-year-old women give birth following fertility treatment with a donated egg, but he has revealed few details about his latest project.

"It's going well. There are no problems," was all he would say about the pregnancy of the cloned embryo.

He gave no clues about the woman's identity, age, where and when the embryo was cloned and where she would give birth nor of two other women he said are carrying cloned embryos.

All he would say was that the cloned fetus was healthy and weighed roughly 6 pounds.

Other experts in the field have grave doubts.

"It is possible but I am highly skeptical. It is unlikely to be true," Professor Anne McLaren, of the Wellcome Trust Cancer Research UK Institute at the University of Cambridge, told Reuters Wednesday.

Cloning experts doubt Antinori or his unknown colleagues have the expertise to clone a human. Although sheep, mice and pigs have been cloned, scientists have not yet produced a carbon copy of any primate.

Experts at the Roslin Institute in Scotland, where Dolly was created, said that without proof it is impossible to know what Antinori has done.

"It is very difficult to know if there is any substance behind these claims at all," Dr Harry Griffin said when Antinori said a woman in his program was pregnant in April.

Antinori did not produce any evidence then or now so scientists do now know if he has achieved anything or if he is just seeking publicity.

"We have nothing more to add," a spokeswoman for the institute said Wednesday.


Dolly the sheep was cloned using a technique called nuclear transfer. The nucleus of an egg cell was removed and replaced with the nucleus from a cell of the animal to be cloned. It was then reprogrammed so the cell grew and divided normally.

It is a skilled and risky technique. Only a small percentage of clones result in pregnancies and there is a high percentage of miscarriages and deformities.

Even animal clones that look healthy may have genetic abnormalities or be predisposed to a decreased life span because the cells used in the cloning process acquire DNA damage as they age.

Dolly is thought to be older than her years because she was produced from a cell taken from a six-year-old ewe.

Antinori has not given any clues about how the human embryo was cloned nor who the progenitor, the person who has been cloned, is. "We will wait and we will see what the DNA studies show if a baby is born," McLaren said. "I just hope it will not have abnormalities."

Comparing DNA from the progenitor and from the baby will determine whether the baby is genetically identical and a clone.

"I would not rule out the possibility that he has managed to do this but I would fear for what the consequences might in terms of deformities," said Dr Sandy Thomas.

Thomas, director of the Nuffield Council on Bioethics which examines ethical issues arising from developments in medicine and biology, said Antinori is not following the normal criteria by which scientific advances are judged.

"No one can therefore make any kind of an evaluation of the validity of what he is saying. There is no information so it is impossible to make a judgment," she added.
post #2 of 27
We were talking about this at work today, and I have to say, I am EXTREMELY skeptical this is true. One of the scientists that cloned Dolly came and gave a talk to my department when I was in graduate school, and their success rate was low (they implanted hundreds of embryos to get Dolly). Although the people who want to clone humans are laying low because of the outcry against it (I'm against it), the simple fact of the matter is that scientific achievements are accepted only when they are put up for peer review.
post #3 of 27
Hmm, I too am skeptical, but this is still scary, I will be very interested to know the outcome....
post #4 of 27
Cloning has been going on for years, but it's still very basic. I believe in souls, although not in a specific religion, and I just wonder if these cloned people will have souls?
post #5 of 27
I think that babies should be made the old-fashioned way. All of this scientific monkeying around with genes and DNA is scary.

If you can't have kids, the usual way - accept it and adopt!
post #6 of 27
Cloning is wrong. I agree with Cindy -- have kids the old-fashioned way. Let nature take its course.
post #7 of 27
Yeah Cindy that's very well for those to say such things that have natural families.

Those of us who are unable to, face many obstacles. In the UK adoption is a huge minefield. Your have kids pushed at you who are no-hopers, those that, whatever you do will end up running riot, causing damage and will be difficult to rehabilitate. If you are over a certain age, you will only be considered for certain children - either an older child or a trouble child. The authorities are deliberately difficult - it's a full time job to chase these losers that work in social services (a huge generalization - I know, but spoken from bitter experience).

There are many ways to have a baby which, whilst it includes assisted conception does not include the horrors of cloning. It's unfair to lump all these methods into the same category.

I walk around town almost every day and see young women, barely able to string a sentence together without uttering foul expletives who are obviously living on the breadline. They are clothed warmly (it's well cold here now) smoking cigarettes screaming at their hoards of kids, dragging them through puddles, smacking and thumping their kids etc etc, and the kids look like urchins with tatty training shoes full of holes and no winter clothing other that a sweatshirt.

THIS makes me mad. You get the distinct impression these kids are a meal ticket and there is no inclination to nurture, love and support that child. The irresponsiblity of parenthood just so's they can get their child allowance cheques to spend on fags (ciggies) and going down the pub. There is huge unjustice in the world, and while the science exists to help those of us who can offer a child a living, secure and happy home, albeit as difficult and as expensive and as emotionally painful as it currently is - this is a huge step forward to civilized society.
post #8 of 27

Firstly I don't believe in cloning, not through any religious or ethical reasons but simply that we are stuffing around with nature in a way that can't be controlled! As usual not all the questions of why we need to do something like that have been fully explored or the questions of why we should not! Unfortunately man has long been responsible for some of the most irresponsible F**k ups because they are under the impression that if it can be done then it should!

There have been been some amazing things discovered also that have been good for mankind so I guess that as with anything involving progress there will always be the good and the bad!

For those of us that can't have children or are struggling to conceive it is an incredible pain both emotionally and physically which I suppose some people can't imagine! I always though I would have a baby one day! I only found out that this couldn't be when Pete and I went in for health checks and blood compatibility so that we could start a family, that I discovered I was already menopausal. I was told a few months back that it would be impossible as I can't take the HRT or other medication to make it happen. I would have made a great mum! I haven't even began to grieve fully as there have been way to many other things on my plate with my own mother dieing in February and other health issues. What I do find myself doing though is bursting into tears when anyone mentions how easy it was for them to have kids, how they feel pregnant at the drop of a hat (I want that hat) or how they didn't want them in the first place ( well bloody give them to me then) It hurts, and it only ever seems to affect those people that genuinely want kids only to find out later on that they can't! I guess it's like anything else in life, for those that can have what the want when they want it they have no concept of just how precious that is! I don't agree on cloning a baby but I can understand the huge emotion and grief and terror that one feels when what the want is ripped away from them through no fault of theirs. Most people I know are very insensitive and even when they know you are upset and that you can't have children will talk about it as if you should just forget about it and get on with it! I know that I will always have an empty space in my heart, my womb is barren and my life incomplete! I hate the thought of not seeing the joy on my babies face at Christmas time, celebrating each birthday and watching them grow into adulthood with me standing by to be there if needed! I will miss the wet kisses, blowing raspberries on bare bellies, bath times and the sweet smell of baby powder, I go to shops and look at all the beautiful little clothes, I pick them up and hold them to my face and imagine that little suit filled with a wriggling wonder!, I will miss the first giggle, the first spit bubble, the first step, the first fall, the first word, the first cuddle and the first time you baby looks at you and says mama! But I suppose I should get on with it!

For those of you that can have children be grateful,
for those of you that do have children bask in the glory of what you have created and never take it for granted.
For those of you who are desperately struggling to have a baby, I would do anything in the world to make that happen for you!
For those of you that can't, I understand your pain and I understand that there will always be an empty space.

If this woman's story is true and she has a cloned baby then who am I to judge her decision? I may not agree in the way she has done it but the fact is she was desperate enough to stop at nothing to achieve conception. Doesn't that in itself go some way toward explaining just how desperate it is when you can't have a child??
post #9 of 27
I used to work with a man who has a child dying with a genetic disease. He and his wife were fighting the medical ethics people to enable selective screening of their next child. They were seeking a baby with the right "match" so they could take stem cells from this new baby to make their older child well. After a huge battle and lots of press coverage they were eventually allowed to have selective IVF treatment. I'm not too sure how I feel about this. He loved his sick son. He loved his other child (made naturally but not a "match") and I'm sure he will love this selected child. But, how far do we take this?

A friend donated eggs, through the NHS, about three months ago to aid people with fertility problems. She produced over 20 eggs - which could mean over 20 of her children running around the same city as herself, not knowing her, her not knowing them. I don't think I could imagine that. I'd be staring at every baby checking to see if it had my nose. Is this taking things too far?

I have no children, through choice, but hearing the biological clock ticking (I'm 36). Maybe I will change my mind in a few years. Or just get some more cats.

I have the deepest sympathy for those who seriously want a child and can't.
post #10 of 27
Cloning will always be argued about. I will not say whether I support it or not. As for people who are unable to have children, I sympathize, because having a child is the most precious thing to have happen to you. If I could, I would love to help those who cannot have kids, I would even donate eggs to those who cannot produce them. I just hate to see wonderful people unable to have kids because they have the potential to be great parents.
Can IVF work for you Bundy? I wish I could help you. Are you able to adopt a baby? Im sorry for so many questions, I wish I could help you.
post #11 of 27
Jesus woman. Leslie, you've got me in tears! How is it that you can type exactly what I feel, but am afraid or unable to?

When I found out I was pregnant - for that magical month or 2, I wandered blissfully round the shops mentally chosing cots and prams and toys. NOBODY - not even Ken, who has 2 kids of his own, will understand the fear, pain and self-disgust I felt when I was advised my beloved and desperately wanted pregnancy was not only not going to be, but was now poised to rupture and kill me.

It's 2.5 years on now. I can't look at prams or cots in the shops, and look the other way when babies are being shown off or are gurgling in their parents arms. It has seriously affected my self-esteem - I hate my body and all it stands for.

It's a huge gaping hole in my life that can never be filled. Please - those of you who have babies and children, thank you lucky stars.
post #12 of 27
Oh Leslie and Yola,

The pain you have expressed is filling me with tears.
post #13 of 27
Yola I share your tears and understand. I am sorry I made you cry. Just imagine if we could collect all the tears that have fallen from women everywhere that have gone through this pain we could fill all the oceans.

Kiwideus I can't have IVF because I can't take the drugs to do so. So every door has close for the moment. Adoption is not an easy process and one that I haven't looked at as I guess I don't want to admit I can't have one of my own!

To those woman out there that have donated eggs or been surrogate mothers you are truly mother nature! I salute you!
post #14 of 27
Can your body accept donated eggs?
post #15 of 27
Thread Starter 
Bundylee and Yola, when I started this thread I didn't realize that it might be really upsetting for someone who wants a child very badly but can't have one. I am apologizing to you for this.
post #16 of 27
Lorie no appology needed mate!

I want to appologise if I have upset anyone with my post as I didn't mean too! I just wanted to express my own feelings and oppinions! I am sorry if it came across in a bad way!


post #17 of 27
Imagine an army of George W Bushes!

1 million Georges and 1 million typewriters in a room and they would eventually write the next great Snoopy book.

*me hides from the Feds
post #18 of 27
I agree with you Bunn, but an army of George W Bushes would be too scary!

*looking paranoidly over shoulder*
post #19 of 27
If you ever get a chance watch 2DTV, it's a satirical cartoon show on UK TV. It showed our mate Dubya getting all excited over a new DVD and putting it in the toaster to watch it! So funny.
post #20 of 27
OMG I just found a link to that funny cartoon!

http://www.2dtv.co.uk/movies/2DTV_Bush_Ad.mpg It's been banned from TV in the UK!

Any problems admins then do remove this post
post #21 of 27
Hey BuNN if they cloned people like Charles Darwin, Charles M. Schulz, Beethoven, Mozart and Leonardo Da Vinci then I could possibly start to wonder if this may not be a good thing hehehe!!!! :tounge2:
post #22 of 27
Aye it would be nice to a degree. I wonder though if those clones would be the same mentally? As in would they want to invent/paint stuff? They said that a cloned cat would not be the same personality wise as the original one :o
post #23 of 27
Thread Starter 
Bundylee and Yola, I read your PM's...no problem!!!

BuNN, I'm ROTFL!!! :LOL: Just one more George W. Bush would be really scary!!!!

Cindy, I have never heard that someone may want to clone themself for the reason you're talking about. I have heard that if human cloning does become successful, seriously ill people may start cloning themselves just so body organs will be easily available in case they need a transplant. If it became necessary, the clone would be killed so the transplant could be performed. I have also heard that clones will not be exactly like the original people. The differences will be determined by the type of environment the clone is brought up in.

I am interested in what they will have to say about this baby after he is born in January.
post #24 of 27
Bundy and Yola,

I understand all to well the pain you talk about. It is a personal relationship that found its way into my life and to this day I still feel a twinge of remorse when I see a new baby in a lucky lady's arms. I can't attend baby showers, get all excited about friends who become pregnant. I have tried, but it is hard.

After Jeremy was born, I woke up in a private hospital room. I worked at the hospital, so I knew something was not right. I should have been on the Maternity Ward. There was a card near the phone by my bed that said "To inquire about your baby call"........and then there was a number. I picked up the phone and dialed, it was busy. Put it down, dialed again......busy...again....busy.......To say I was more than a little suspicious is an understatement. I kept trying with no results.

Finally in desperation, I called the switchboard downstairs and asked one of my co-workers why I couldn't get through to the nursery? She informed me that they had experienced a heavy flow of babies the night before, and I should just keep trying. Other mothers, she explained were calling in.

When I hung up the phone, the door to my room opened and my husband, my father and my doctor all walked in at the same time. The look on their faces said it all. I didn't even have to ask what happened to my son, but I did anyway. The confirmation of what I already knew at that moment deadened my heart and shattered my life.

After a c-section, you normally stay in the hospital for just a few days. I was in a month! Now, that I look back at it, most of it was sickness caused by a hole in my soul and a deep depression. Back then, though not much was known about depression and instead it was manifested by infections and fevers and a myriad of tests by doctors trying to figure out what was wrong with me.

When I was finally released to go home, I walked into the house and went straight to the nursery. I had prior to Jeremy's birth gone out and gotten everything I needed for a baby. I was set for the birth of my first-born. I walked in to the room and saw that it had been stripped bare, re-painted and turned into a spare bedroom. My mother-in-law and husband had done it while I was in the hospital thinking it would be "the best thing" for me. I simply came apart, came unglued and I have never in my life ever cried so hard, and hope I never do again.

My son was born with a premature vein to his heart and a raging case of strep throat. He lived 18 hours in one of the best Children's Hospital in the country. He had been life-flighted there after he came into the world. He died of a heart attack, and had been so ill no one had even taken on photograph of him. I never even got to see him.

I won't go into anymore dismal details- but later at the age of 21 I would have to undergo a total hysterectomy and then find myself having to deal with menopause and all the wonderful hot flashes, mood swings while they regulated my hormones.

It seemed to me that women I met after that, they always had two questions when they found out I was married. One was, "how long have you been married," and the other was "how many children do you have?"

I too missed out on the Mommy Club. I lost friends because I couldn't get into their world that centered around kids. It was not their fault, nor mine, it was just the way of it. I felt left-out and I am sure they picked up on it and didn't want to deal with it.

Today I am remarried with 5 step-kids and 14 step-grandchildren. I have enough love to go around to all of them. I do know that my steps have been directed towards rescuing cats for a reason. They fill the empty void in my heart and give me such delight. I don't have to dress them up in baby clothes and push them around in a pram to know they are my kids!

My heart reaches out to both of you. Pursue adoption, there are so many needy kids in the world. Become a mentor to young children- I have done that for years. Eventually your heart will heal and your smile will return. In the meantime, you have my hugs and respect.
post #25 of 27
Thread Starter 
BuNN, my silly computer won't let me watch that video!!!
post #26 of 27
You'll need either Real Player or Windohs Media Player. Both be free, but WMP is a pain in the butt to remove if you dislike it. So long as you have a program that plays .mpg files you'll be fine.
post #27 of 27
Oh Hissy, Yola and Leslie....your posts have touched my heart so much!!! I feel so bad for all you have gone through! I don't know what to say, because there is nothing I can say to make it better for you. My heart just ached reading your posts!!! I too once thought I might never have children, I had surgery twice to remove cancerous cells from my cervix, and was told I might never conceive. I felt such an emptyness inside...I know I can't fully understand how you feel because I do now have a child, finally, but I can relate to the feelings of thinking you may never have one. I just wish I could give all three of you a huge hug right now!!!
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