I felt Smokie's babies move!!!

Yay! Smokie's babies are a lot more active than Mika's were! And I felt lots of movement!! I don't know how far a long she is.. But I am assuming 7-8 weeks if I could feel movement, right? I hope she has them in the doghouse too! I want to bring them inside! I will be sure to find them though! I will find them.. But where to put them, so Mika doesn't think her kittens are in trouble? Smokie is more wild than Mika, but will let me pet her, and hold her. I tried to squeeze a teat, no milk. But some cats you can't see milk yet. What do you guys think? Thank you for reading!

hi spirita well im far from experienced with pregnant cats but my millie had her babies 2weeks ago and from the moment i suspected that she was pregnant because i noticed that her sides were getting rather big i cupped my hands around her sides when she laying with me for a cuddle and could feel nothing so i started to doubt that their were babies coming and maybe she was getting fat but within about a week that suddenly changed and i started to feel something that would move very gently around my palm of hand and well within 1week i came home to find that she had,had her kittens and they had all been cleaned up and were nursing so i would say if you can feel them then she most certainly hasnt got to long to go so all the best and look forward to hearing all about your news once the safe arrival of her little babies have entered our world x good luck x

i cannot say im happy to hear that she is deffently pregnant, especially because you have no way of getting her spayed after, and for the fact she may not have them in the dog house. but i do hope the birth goes well and the babys are safe and healthy.

If you're feeling movement, then it will most likely be within a week or so that they'll arrive, give or take a few days. I don't remember if I've asked before, but do Mika's kittens have homes selected for when the time comes?

My biggest concern in all of this with Smokie and Mika, is the fact that they are NOT getting spayed (and I know that's by parental directive), and they keep getting thrown outside...do you realize that both Smokie and Mika could potentially have another 4 litters this year alone? That could mean that between the two of them, they could each potentially have 32 more kittens, in need of a home. That could mean 32 more homes, 32 more kitten left unaltered, and 32 more kittens left outdoors, breeding and creating even more kittens...within this year. You can then imagine the numbers of kitten we will be talking about.

I just wish there was more we could do on here to help this situation, Spirita. I know you want Mika and Smokie to be spayed, and have no means to do so, since it's your parents who are controlling this aspect.

To me, this situation merits attention from those who post regularly to the Cats S.O.S. forum, so that some intervention or help can be received for these two females and their litters.

IMO, I do feel that if some of us from TCS need to step forward, and offer you some real help, Spirita. I know you want what is best for the girls, and their offspring, and they really need to be spayed. If this isn't possible, they need to be re-homed, and placed in a situation where they are kept as altered, indoor pets.

Please consider posting to the Cats S.O.S. forum, and seeking out further help for Smokie and Mika. You have Hershey and the new puppy, Whisper too...they need your attention. If your girls could find a new home through some of the wonderful members of TCS, rest assured that you will not hear the last of Mika and Smokie! I know there is someone on here who could update you regularly on the girls, and keep you informed on how they are doing...someone has got to step in and offer some assistance. Either in getting the girls spayed, or offering them a new home where they can enjoy the comforts of being indoors and being altered as well.

Don't be afraid to run this possibility by your mom, sister, and stepdad. Have them pop onto TCS, and post to the Cats S.O.S. forum themselves, if they'd like.

Please let me know if there's any way I can help. There isn't a day goes by I don't think about Mika, Smokie, and the kittens. I think if there's a will, there's always a way. As hard as it could be to re-home them, and let them go, sometimes it's the most loving choice we can make...just knowing that we can provide something more to enrich and help the our beloved companions. It could be a new beginning for the girls...and eventually, you'd learn to take joy and pride from it. Rather than sentencing them to a life of incessant breeding, kitten losses, health problems, and the dangers of outdoors, you could potentially rescue them, by sending them to a place that can provide what they need.

We know you love your pets, and I know you know what is best for the cats. Sometimes that means loving them enough to let them go, and actively seeking help from people who care enough to do what your parents aren't able to do.

Please try and consider it.

Darling girl, I know you love your cats but I really do have to agree with wookie on this one. It is so hard to be a kid and not have anything to say when such decisions are made by our parents, but since they are not choosing to be as responsible as they perhaps should be, it does rest with you to try and do the right thing. There are many low- or even no-cost spay/neuter clinics around the world and there are many, many people here at TCS who may be able to help you. Given your status as a minor, I do not want you to post your location or anything else that may give anyone any clue as to where you might be, but perhaps if you did post on the SOS forum, one of the kind rescue folks will have an idea of how to help. It just isn't safe for these girls to be outside, giving birth and trying to raise kittens. There are way too many things that can happen to them.

I know, I might give them up.. But this is the happiest news I have heard all week. Unfortunately. I know its not that happy, but at least it gets my mind off of my mom probably thinking about bringing dummy back. (my step-dad) I am seriously considering, taking them to the Rescue, which they put the cats in Foster homes, after their babies are gone, but that rescue might be a good place for Smokie and her kittens to go to. Although I am not happy that she is pregnant. I know its not a good thing, but I am happy to feel her kittens move. This is not a happy day at all for me. Although some good news, is better than what my mom is out doing now.

It really is an awesome thing to see and feel the babies move, isn't it? *smile* Even though it might not be "politically correct" for me to say this, the pregnancy/birth/raising kittens experience is such a neat thing to watch. I was fascinated by watching Lexus with all of her kittens. From the first we knew she was pregnant to the last of her babies going to their new families, it was so rewarding.

However, and back to the harsh realities of life as we know it today, you are facing a very difficult decision and I just want to say how proud I am to know of you and the way you are dealing with it. Thank you, Lamb, for being such a mature and responsible person and setting the bar that much higher for the rest of us in considering what is best for our beloved babies. I just wish everyone, no matter what their age, could follow your example.

I am going to wait until Mika's babies are grown up, like when they are ready to go, and we might have one home for them already! Maybe, my mom hasn't asked the person yet. He works with her. Which I will get to know how one of the babies are doing if he takes one. But I know I need to get these girls spayed, and I love them too much to let them keep reproducing. I know it is a difficult task to be a mother, cause I watch my sister raise her kids. sheesh. Loads of work! And no time for thereselves!! And they need time to be a cat!! But we will get homes for Mika's already born kittens. But, right now, Mika is outside!! I didn't mean for her to go outside, because I opened the door for the puppy to go out, and she dashed out!! yikes! I hope she gets back inside before her babies want to eat!! But if not, we have a crisis on our hands.. Because we need a bottle, and some kitten milk. But it was an accident that she went outside... Seriously. And I even checked to make sure she was no where near the door. And she wasn't there. But I am going to stay up, so that, I can let her inside. And watch the babies. Oh my, I am a stressed out mess!

Ok, Momma is back in! Phew, I had to pick a baby up, and make it cry to get her in! Thank goodness she is protective!

im so glad she came back inside.

And my mom said Smokie can come inside and have her babies!! Thats some more good news. Smokie is bigger than Mika though.. Either the babies are chubby, or she has a lot, or they are all long-haired.. I don't know. But, this is good news!

thats great news that your mum is allowing her in the house to have her kittens.
remember what i suggested though about the kittens , make sure your ask for a donation for each kitten of mikas and smokies kittens , this will pay for there spaying

Yes, and we should vaccinate all of them, kittens, and moms. But I am aiming for the spaying part first. Ask for, $5 a kitten? Thats what the Animal Shelter asks for. But, my mom might have to be patient if we ask for some donations. But if they know what it's for, then they will understand. But, my grandma gave me a paper, its called indypaws.com, I am going to make a profile for each baby. And my mom is going to ask one of the people she works with if he wants one. Which I am concerned about good homes as well, and paying an adoption fee for an animal should ensure a good home. Because if you pay money for something, usually you treat it with care. I mean, I don't treat animals badly, but I think if I am going to pay for something, then I am going to care for it. I want to ensure people take care of their new kitten. And maybe send them home a little food with the kitten. To get them started out. I need to really be thinking about what I am going to send home with the kittens, as they are growing very quick. And more on the way! But, 4 weeks is when you can take them out of their den, right? Because I want to start getting them out of the closet, and get them around the house. And show them new things slowly.

you can start at about 4 weeks , but have your eyes on them at all times , especially since you have a dog and a young puppy , puppys will want to play and the kittens will get hurt. i always waite untill the kittens are 6 weeks old myself. then they only come out for an hour each time.
forgot to add only allow them to mix with your other animals if they are all uptodate with there vac's , the kittens will be old enough for there first lot of injections at 7 weeks old , untill then there imuine (spelling?)systems is still week.

As far as an adoption fee goes, consider charging a bit more than $5.00...you're in the right mindset as far as people valuing something they pay for more than a free pet. That part is true...but for most, paying $5.00 for a pet will still open the doors for any Tom-Dick-and Harry to be able to view the kittens as "disposable pets."

Hang on to the kittens until they are 10-12 weeks old. By 8 weeks old, the kittens should have their first vaccinations. Hang on to their vet records, and to the vet receipts so you know how much they are. Their next set of vaccinations will be at 12 weeks old. Again, keep their vet records and receipts, so you know how much you paid. Then, they'll be ready to go to their new homes, with the understanding that the adoptee will be responsible for spay/neutering, and their last vaccinations at 16 weeks of age.

For an adoption fee, add the costs of their first 2 vet trips per kitten, and add $5.00 for the "adoption fee." This is what you should charge per kitten. If this is too steep, charge an adoption fee that at least covers ONE of the vet visits. So, you could be looking at asking between $20-50 per kitten, similiar to the adoption fee of most shelter cats and kittens. Also, it will not hurt to write up an adoption contract between you and the adoptee. This way, if the kitten doesn't work out in it's new home, it can be returned to you, which will reduce the likelihood it will end up in a shelter, or an unfit home down the line...then, if a kitten does come back to you, you can then rehome him/her yourself. It just gives you better leverage and control over the situation, that's all...and it's in the best interest of the kittens. Make sure you give the adoptee a copy of the vet records, and vaccinations provided...keep a copy for yourself also, in the event a kitten is returned to you. The amounts you charge per kitten will definitely cover the cost of spaying both Mika and Smokie!!! So, right there, you have a viable solution to your problem. You'll just have to keep the girls indoors for the reminder of their time with the kittens, as I have mentioned before that queens can come into heat as early as 48 hours after delivering a litter...they can become pregnant even before their current litter is weaned.

I'll PM you an example that can be used as an adoption contract for new potential homes...feel free to use it as is.

Whoops! You're not receiving PM's...so I hope you don't mind if I throw the thingy right up here!

----------------------------------------------------------------


AGREEMENT BETWEEN ADOPTEE AND ADOPTER


Your new kitten will come with his or her first 2 sets of vaccinations from (name and phone number of vet's office). The fee we are asking will be used to cover these costs, and also to contribute to the cost of having their mother spayed so as to prevent further unplanned litters in the future.

*Your new kitten will need to return to the vet at 16 weeks of age for a vaccination booster shot, which will complete his/her shots for the current year.
*Although the kitten has been thoroughly checked through (name of vet)'s office for parasites, disease, and for a general clean bill of health, we cannot provide a guarantee against lifelong congenital defects, nor can we provide a warrantee for health issues throughout your kitten's lifespan. In addition, we are not responsible for the cost of veterinary care or other expenses accrued, should the kitten become ill or injured in your care.
*We require that you sign an agreement on this contract that you will spay/neuter your kitten at the age of 16 weeks of age, or according to your vet's regular schedule of care.

Please sign below if you agree to spay and neuter according to your vet's schedule:

_____________________/___/_______
(First/Last Name) (Date)

*If for some reason, you are unable to care for the kitten, and/or need to return the kitten due to an unexpected life change, your personal health issues, or another valid reason, we ask that you call us, and we will gladly take the kitten and again re-home him/her ourselves, at any point in the cat's life, with the exception that you are not returning the kitten or cat on the basis of an inability to provide proper vet or medical treatment or care. We ask that you do not place the cat in a shelter or give the cat away. We take full responsibility for the birth and care of our kittens, and take comfort in the knowledge that we can provide the most loving FOREVER homes possible for each and every one.

Thank you for adopting one of our beautiful kittens! If you have questions, or comments, please feel free to contact us any time.

(Your Name)
(Your Address)
(Your Phone Number)
(Your E-mail)


ADOPTION FEE: $____.____ (To cover vet costs while in our care, prior to the adoption date).

DATE OF ADOPTION ____/____/______

*I have read the above agree, and accept all the terms and conditions listed above.

_________________________________
(signature)

----------------------------------------------------------------

Spirita...you could also make a kitten care package, which includes a sample of litter, a little tin of cat treats, a catnip toy or mouse, and a kitten care sheet...you could just print one off the web, and include the care sheet with the kitten's vet records.

I am serious when I mentioned in the contract that a person should be able to return a cat DIRECTLY to you at any point of the cat's life, should he/she not be able to care for it. This is what taking responsibility for the birth of kittens is all about...we as humans (the creatures who ALLOW our cats to become pregnant and breed) need to be prepared to follow and support the kittens WE bring into this world throughout the duration of their lives...rather than allowing them to eventually be thrown into shelters to be euthanized, as over 9,000 are each day. You can turn your head and look the other way once the kitten goes to their new home...or, you can do the right thing, and be available to take the cat back in someday if the adoptee can no longer do it. That's because it is YOU that allowed that kitty to be brought into the world in the first place.

I'm not jumping down your throat, it's just the reality of the situation. If you are put in a position where a kitten or cat comes back to you, we at TCS will definitely help you find a forever home for the kitten. We've organized and facilitated all sorts of adoptions from this site from various parts of the country...we've even organized transport trains to get a cat from point A to point B...volunteers who will drive a cat a certain distant to meet another driver, and so on...just so the cat can finally reach the new home.

We could even organize such a thing for Mika and Smokie, if you decide to re-home them. We could post something about the girls in Cats S.O.S., with pictures, and spark some interest, to see if there aren't any TCS members who would be able to take them...and trust me, I'm sure there are. We can work out something transportation-wise if necessary, and you can request occassional photo and updates from their new owner right here on the site, or you can choose to keep the correspondence private through e-mail.

Just something to think about.

P.S. So glad to hear that Bruce is still gone. Phew!

thanks Wookie, and all! I just kicked the wall, and it broke.. Oops, not heartbroken, but I am toast, I bet I just blew letting Smokie in.. I hope not.. Because I would like for her to come in when she has her babies.. I am just soo angry.. ug, I know this isn't the post.. But.. she isn't home, so how does she know I did it?

Don't worry about the wall.

You're a kid, and you're angry...I'm not saying it's okay to go all postal and behave destructively, but you were reacting out of frustration and anger, anyone can see that. Let that be a big fat red flag warning to your mom...that man needs to stay gone. She needs to know how this is affecting you.

Now, take some deep breaths, and call the police. They at least need to know the situation, even if they don't respond right away. Both mom and Bruce are violating the restraining order.