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Crazy smoking ban gets defeated.... no surprise...

post #1 of 32
5/3/07 at 4:43am
Thread Starter 
http://www.wxii12.com/news/13248298/detail.html

This bill was proposed by my County representative I am fairly disappointed that he thought some crap like this would actually pass....

Fining the business if someone is caught smoking there, but not the smoker? WTH????

While I am a non-smoker, and sit in the non-smoking section of restaurants, I do not feel this was a smart move to propose such crap... all it does is make the legislators look stupid.

If I don't want to be around smokers, I don't go to a business that allows it.

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post #2 of 32
5/3/07 at 5:38am
Yea I agree...it should be the responsibility of the smoker rather than the establishment.
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post #3 of 32
5/3/07 at 8:19am
In Ontario, there is no smoking in any public indoor place - including bars/restaurants/casinos. The businesses can and do get fined.
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post #4 of 32
5/3/07 at 8:28am
They only places around here that allow indoor smoking are bars. There are big fines if you are caught smoking inside a public place.
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post #5 of 32
5/3/07 at 8:46am
They just passed a no smoking law in a city close to me. That means no smoking in the restaurants and bars. I don't think it is right for the city to do this. I think it should be up to the individual bar/restaurant owner.
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post #6 of 32
5/3/07 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulena View Post
They just passed a no smoking law in a city close to me. That means no smoking in the restaurants and bars. I don't think it is right for the city to do this. I think it should be up to the individual bar/restaurant owner.

i agree.
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post #7 of 32
5/3/07 at 8:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by adymarie View Post
In Ontario, there is no smoking in any public indoor place - including bars/restaurants/casinos. The businesses can and do get fined.
Yup. I personally feel that if there a smoking ban in place, and the business allows its customers to smoke there, that business should be fined as well as the customers. It's up to the business to enforce the laws in place, just as it's up to the customers to obey them. I don't see anything particularly crazy about this.
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post #8 of 32
5/3/07 at 9:00am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by adymarie View Post
In Ontario, there is no smoking in any public indoor place - including bars/restaurants/casinos. The businesses can and do get fined.
So if a club was "private" with memberships, can they allow smoking?
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post #9 of 32
5/3/07 at 9:09am
Here they are trying to pass a law that any Building that has anything to do with the County you can not smoke around it
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post #10 of 32
5/3/07 at 9:12am
I don't see a problemm with this either. Nice to be able to go out without choking on other people's 2nd hand smoke.
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post #11 of 32
5/3/07 at 9:34am
Why don't they just make cigs illegial!
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post #12 of 32
5/3/07 at 9:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crazyforinfo View Post
Why don't they just make cigs illegial!
Because they bring in too much revenue. It makes me wonder why they don't decriminalize marijuana and other drugs, as well as prostitution. The money they'd be making off of these things would be incredible.
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post #13 of 32
5/3/07 at 11:14am
We've had a smoking ban in Columbus for a long while, and the Ohio ban is about to go into effect (is it today?) and I am glad. The only thing stupid about it is that hookah bars got Under the Columbus ban if 85% of your sales were in tobacco (pretty much only hookah bars and tobaccaniers coudl claim that and why would you be there if you didn't smoke!) you were still allowed to allow smoking. Under the Ohio ban they pretty much have to close.

I used to be against the bans totally. But now that I've gotten used to it I am happy about it. Most new bars build nice patios, so it's an upside. Nobody to burn you and also you don't smell. I don't smoke in my house (and I don't smoke but rarely at all any more) so why do I want to smoke in a bar where otehr people have to breathe?

They are thinking of flat-out banning smoking on campus too. Outside, inside, doesn't matter. I think that that would cause a lot of ruckus and also a lot of people standing on the other side of the street smoking. And people live on campus, so it isn't really fair to them, they do live there.

But around academic buildings, I can see the point.
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post #14 of 32
5/3/07 at 11:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirinae View Post
Because they bring in too much revenue. It makes me wonder why they don't decriminalize marijuana and other drugs, as well as prostitution. The money they'd be making off of these things would be incredible.
Yup I'm sure this will happen in the future. And I will vote to pass this bill!! But think about this... right now they are making money off of drug users and prostitution. they are making money off of these people already- from jail/prison time they have to pay for, these people go onto probabtion and DARE fees. They sometimes have to take classes for a drug evaluation- and I believe they pay for that as well. So they are making some money from drug users.

And as for cigerettes. Here in Phoenix- they JUST passed it that there is NO smoking in public places. And you have to be like 25? feet from any public area. (Don't quote me on that one) This INCLUDES bars! Which I agree- there should be NO smoking in restaurants because there are family's there! But bars???? come on!
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post #15 of 32
5/3/07 at 11:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mybabyphx View Post
And as for cigerettes. Here in Phoenix- they JUST passed it that there is NO smoking in public places. And you have to be like 25? feet from any public area. (Don't quote me on that one) This INCLUDES bars! Which I agree- there should be NO smoking in restaurants because there are family's there! But bars???? come on!
Speaking as someone allergic to cigarettes and similar products, I fully support bans in all public places, including bars. Before the ban came into effect in Ontario, I couldn't go out with my friends because the smoke would be so bad in the bars and clubs that I would lose the ability to breathe. Why should I have to stay home because some people don't want to take it outside? I should become a hermit because I have allergies? Am I selfish because I want to go out with my friends? Maybe it's because I'm a non-smoker and therefore not inconvenienced by these bans, but I just don't think it's that big a concession to other people's health issues for smokers to go outside.
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post #16 of 32
5/3/07 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by adymarie View Post
In Ontario, there is no smoking in any public indoor place - including bars/restaurants/casinos. The businesses can and do get fined.
Yeah, we've got that here too. It's been in effect maybe.... uhh 4 years or so? Anyway, I see no issue with it. I think it's about being respectful of other people, and by that I mean not forcing others to breathe in unwanted cigarette smoke. It's the same reason I won't wear strong perfume- because it may bother some people. Mutual respect.

As my Uncle once said, "I don't care if you shoot heroine directly into your veins in front of me. You're harming only yourself. But don't smoke in front of me, and do me harm too."

It's become such a way of life here that it's shocking (and disgusting) when I travel to places that don't have a smoking ban.
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post #17 of 32
5/3/07 at 9:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirinae View Post
Yup. I personally feel that if there a smoking ban in place, and the business allows its customers to smoke there, that business should be fined as well as the customers. It's up to the business to enforce the laws in place, just as it's up to the customers to obey them. I don't see anything particularly crazy about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I used to be against the bans totally. But now that I've gotten used to it I am happy about it. Most new bars build nice patios, so it's an upside. Nobody to burn you and also you don't smell. I don't smoke in my house (and I don't smoke but rarely at all any more) so why do I want to smoke in a bar where otehr people have to breathe?

They are thinking of flat-out banning smoking on campus too. Outside, inside, doesn't matter. I think that that would cause a lot of ruckus and also a lot of people standing on the other side of the street smoking. And people live on campus, so it isn't really fair to them, they do live there.

But around academic buildings, I can see the point.
I agree with both of these statements. I don't think it should be illegal for people to smoke at all...what they do in the privacy of their own home is up to them. However, if I had children or if I was prone to sickness from smoke, and just being in a place like Bob Evans (cheap family-like restaurant) for lunch where they did have a smoking section, it wouldn't be right to expose said children (or self) to the dangerous second-hand smoke. We (me and my imaginary children) shouldn't have to stay at home all of the time just because we don't smoke, or don't want to be around it.
I do have an uncle who doesn't go out to eat with us anymore because he can't go without a cigarette for however long the meal might be, because he can't smoke at the restaurants anymore. Which is sad, but I can't say it changes my views on the law.
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post #18 of 32
5/3/07 at 9:59pm
We've had smoking bans in the county for years so it has been ages since I was in a smoky restaurant or bar. I don't miss it at all as it was nauseating to go there and then come home reeking.

The state has implemented a statewide ban but casinos were exempt - talk about a good lobby. Doesn't bother me since I don't gamble. The other exemptions were cigar bars which had to have a humidor and x% of sales from tobacco. Some of the smaller bars are trying to get the cigar bar exemption by purchasing humidors but aren't having a lot of luck.
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post #19 of 32
5/3/07 at 10:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuzy View Post
I don't see a problemm with this either. Nice to be able to go out without choking on other people's 2nd hand smoke.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirinae View Post
Speaking as someone allergic to cigarettes and similar products, I fully support bans in all public places, including bars. Before the ban came into effect in Ontario, I couldn't go out with my friends because the smoke would be so bad in the bars and clubs that I would lose the ability to breathe. Why should I have to stay home because some people don't want to take it outside? I should become a hermit because I have allergies? Am I selfish because I want to go out with my friends? Maybe it's because I'm a non-smoker and therefore not inconvenienced by these bans, but I just don't think it's that big a concession to other people's health issues for smokers to go outside.
I agree with both of you!
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post #20 of 32
5/3/07 at 10:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marishka View Post
I agree with both of these statements. I don't think it should be illegal for people to smoke at all...what they do in the privacy of their own home is up to them. However, if I had children or if I was prone to sickness from smoke, and just being in a place like Bob Evans (cheap family-like restaurant) for lunch where they did have a smoking section, it wouldn't be right to expose said children (or self) to the dangerous second-hand smoke. We (me and my imaginary children) shouldn't have to stay at home all of the time just because we don't smoke, or don't want to be around it.
I do have an uncle who doesn't go out to eat with us anymore because he can't go without a cigarette for however long the meal might be, because he can't smoke at the restaurants anymore. Which is sad, but I can't say it changes my views on the law.
Having been a smoker who lived with a smoking ban... it isn't that bad. I have family members like your uncle. My aunt actually totally ruined my sixth birthday party (and my mom is still mad about it!) because she wouldn't come into our non-smoking house. She sat in the van, even though she could have come inside and gone out the door five feet away whenever she felt like it. People who act like that are being stubborn. It's an excuse to not live your life.

Yes, it is nice to smoke after a meal with your friends at a restaurant.

But other people believe it's nice to enjoy a meal that doesn't taste like ash.

I have to admit, I always felt weird smoking around non-smokers. I know it is bad for me, I know what I am subjecting my body to. What am I asking of non-smoking friends just to hang out with me? Friends who don't drink- okay, they can come out to the bar with you, even have beer spilled on them, and it doesn't damage their liver. The effects of regular secondhand smoke from normal going out to a bar (assuming it isn't so often) are long-term healthwise negligible, but for many people they are not so minor.

I guess I have realized that the good of the many should never be sacrificied for the convenience of the few... which I have always believed for everything else, and have recently applied to smoking.

I mean, you don't insist on peeing in front of everyone inside...
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post #21 of 32
5/3/07 at 10:26pm
i think the real eazy choice is, to offer the business a choice,
to be a smoke or a non smoking business.

they can hang out a sing, that says, smoking allowed here etc,
that way people know when they show up what they are getting into.
but hey so much for a free country and being able to make a personal choice.
note, i dont smoke.
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post #22 of 32
5/4/07 at 4:10am
There's a smoking ban in Scotland, any indoor place where people work has to be smoke free. The reasoning they use is basically a workplace health one. I.e workers shouldn't be unnecessarely subjected to hazardous chemicals (cigarette smoke).

I think it's brilliant, it's been going for over a year and everyone is quite happily still going to pubs and bars and clubs.
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post #23 of 32
5/4/07 at 7:45am
I still like my idea of businesses being able to apply for a license to allow smoking, like they do liquor licenses. That way a few places could allow smoking but it would be the exception and not the rule. Like hookah bars, generally only restaurants or bars or clubs.

I do not see a smoking ban as limiting anybody's freedom. No one is being forced to not smoke. They're just being asked to step outside. It would be a freedom to talk on your cell in a movie theatre... but you are annoying people and ruining their experience (which for some people is what smoking inside does) and is it really all that hard to either get up and go out to the hall a minute, or wait until the show is over?
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post #24 of 32
5/4/07 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I still like my idea of businesses being able to apply for a license to allow smoking, like they do liquor licenses. That way a few places could allow smoking but it would be the exception and not the rule. Like hookah bars, generally only restaurants or bars or clubs.

I do not see a smoking ban as limiting anybody's freedom. No one is being forced to not smoke. They're just being asked to step outside. It would be a freedom to talk on your cell in a movie theatre... but you are annoying people and ruining their experience (which for some people is what smoking inside does) and is it really all that hard to either get up and go out to the hall a minute, or wait until the show is over?
I like your idea too. My DH smokes and I do not. In Florida, indoor smoking is only allowed in private clubs and "stand alone" bars. The bars qualify only if they serve hardly any food (10% or less of register receipts). I would like to see a few places other than that where smoking is allowed. Like you said, though - a limited amount. When we go out as a couple, I have to choose between sitting there alone or stepping outside. It would be nice to have the option of tolerating the smoke. For instance, if we went to a bar that serves food and he went outside to smoke, I have to sit there by myself or go with him and take the chance of losing our seats.

Of course, waaaaaay more than that, I would love for him to quit smoking.
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post #25 of 32
5/4/07 at 8:12am
IMO ALL smoking should be banned from most restaurants - even a separate section doesn't work too well.

Here in MN they are working on a total ban - which will be great since we are non-smokers

I can't see fining the restaurant either - should be the smoker that is fined if there is no smoking in the restaurant.



BTW not sure which state, but recently there was talk about banning smoking in cars if there were children riding in the vehicle at the time - I do support that - not fair for the kids to be subjected to very close contact.....your own vehicle or not!
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post #26 of 32
5/4/07 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
IMO ALL smoking should be banned from most restaurants - even a separate section doesn't work too well.

Here in MN they are working on a total ban - which will be great since we are non-smokers

I can't see fining the restaurant either - should be the smoker that is fined if there is no smoking in the restaurant.



BTW not sure which state, but recently there was talk about banning smoking in cars if there were children riding in the vehicle at the time - I do support that - not fair for the kids to be subjected to very close contact.....your own vehicle or not!
That I agree with 100%!
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post #27 of 32
5/5/07 at 6:10pm
New York has banned it for several years now, thank goodness. I hate it when we go through Pennsylvania and realize smoking is still allowed. I forgot how it used to be. And I want to keep forgetting.
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post #28 of 32
5/6/07 at 9:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
i think the real eazy choice is, to offer the business a choice,
to be a smoke or a non smoking business.

they can hang out a sing, that says, smoking allowed here etc,
that way people know when they show up what they are getting into.
but hey so much for a free country and being able to make a personal choice.
note, i dont smoke.
Yes It should be up to the busniness owners
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post #29 of 32
5/8/07 at 8:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by neetanddave View Post
So if a club was "private" with memberships, can they allow smoking?
Nope! Any public place. If the membership meeting wa at someone's house yes.
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post #30 of 32
5/8/07 at 9:54am
In Manitoba we have a province wide smoking ban for public places. That includes bars, restaurants (inside and patios), public transportation, public buildings, casinos etc.

Some apartment buildings have even gone the no smoking route and if you rent there you can't smoke inside the building, even in your own apartment.

The Province is apparently looking at widening the smoking ban to include your personal car and house. Not sure how that will go over.

It's great to be able to go into a bar or a restaurant and not be inundated with second hand smoke which contains 50 chemicals that cause cancer.

I'm a former smoker (quit in April 1990), and I'm glad that there is a smoking ban. People shouldn't be allowed to pollute the air that other people breathe.
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