A note about cats who have just had kittens.

I would like to make comment about this statement.

Firstly, I am 100% for spaying/neutering and am totally aware of the situation with regards unwanted kittens, especially now I live in Spain.

What would you like us to say to members when their kittens arrive , when they have already committed to letting their cat have kittens for whatever reason,

maybe something like - aww very nice, but do you realise you have just added another 2/4/6 kittens to the massive amount of unwanted kittens already roaming the place - no, I dont think so

I think this would just 'switch off' members and push them away from TCS. I also think ignoring it wouldn't achieve anything either. The time after birth is such an important time and this is when members come for advice and guidance.

If you want people to learn about this issue then surely welcoming them, supporting them and yes I am sorry congratulating them is a process I support.

Throughout that process, members can advise about spay/neuter and for me this is where the successes will come

Education & learning comes when people enjoy the experience - and I totally believe this is what happens at TCS.

Of course, it would be interesting to see what members who have just gone through producing yet more unwanted & unloved kittens has to make of all this, so I may stand corrected.

i must admit i agree 100% with mooficat. some of the members come on here before there cat has given birth.
if there in early stages we do point out there is an option of a spay/abort. but some of us do not push this to hard as it does/has pushed users away from the site.
if they come on to find out what they can do to help there pregnant cat , and been keeping us updated on there progress throughout , when the time comes for there cat to deliver , yes if everything goes well for mum and kittens then its nice to have be congratulated , and glad the birth went well etc etc..
remember a lot of us here on this site have taken in strays who are very pregnant , or been handed a very pregnant kitty. by someone who just didnt care enough to have them spayed , then didnt want a pregnant cat. so what do we do with these people who come on saying they have found a stray shes just had kittens what do i do ? this is what i would like to say.

hi and welcome to TCS this is a great site with members who have gone through the same thing. congrats on your new litter and thank you for taking this little one in.
mamma should do everything for her kittens , just keep an eye on them make sure there gaining weight by weighing them daily at the same time. make sure the mum cat cannot get back outside as she can fall pregnant as early as a week after having her kittens which is so unhealthy for her. when the kittens are about 8 weeks old the mum can be spayed , and the kittens can go to there new home at 12 weeks old.

now i think that sounds nice? but thats just me.
if i know the poster knows the basics and knows about spaying etc.. i will not push it just mentune it. some people just need to be aware of the problem as some people really dont know. and thats where we come in to help and advise?

if you really would like this to stop then this part of the fourm needs to be taken of the site, yes most of us here at tcs are very pro spay/neuter and i 100% agree with this , but you do get people join up to get advise about there pregnant cat , they do not want to be hounded by everyone.
we like it to be friendly here so that no one feels that cannot ask certin questions without being pounced upon, they will end up leaving and not comming back.

i understand what your saying , and no i dont think your answer would come across hounding at all.
and yes i know how heart breaking it is to sit up with a kitten night after night just to lose him. i do the best i can to get mothers neutered and the kittens to a great home , and yes i check to make sure they do get spayed and neutered as here the kittens have to be 6 months old. the mum that someone surrended to me when she was 6 weeks pregnant has just gone in today to be spayed, this is after having 4 litters in 2 1/2 years. ands its such a great feeling when the mum is finally spayed and her kittens are doing so well. and the feeling you get when the litter is born healthy as iv seen many litters still born or deformed , this is why i congratulate the poster when there cat or foster has a healthy litter and the birth has gone with no problems. i do not condone breeding a cat just to have a litter or thinking they can make some money for doing so, or because the kittens will look nice.

and yes i do relise how much you have done for kittens i have read your posts and listened to the chat session that tcs had. and i think your a wonderfull caring person to do so much for these little babys. and wish there was a lot more people out there like yourselfs and other members here. but sadly there isnt, so what would you perpose we do ? just answer there questions without a well done , or a congrats? i really dont think i could do that. even if i havnt agreed with the posters on why her cat got pregnant, i will still be thankfull that her cat had no problems and that the kittens are safe. but this is just me.
but the only thing we can do is advise them to get there cat spayed , but if there going to do it anyway there is little we can do to help change there mind without it sounding like were hounding them.

I have seen post after post of people hounding other people about not getting their pets spayed or neutered. These people tend to not come back at all which is what we don't want at TCS. I see posts where someone comes down on another and says that they are not a responsible pet owner and shouldn't even have pets since their pet got pregnant. If someone comes on here saying they are against spaying while their cat is pregnant, they get hounded. If someone says their cat accidentally got out and is now pregnant, they get hounded. These people don't come back to TCS. Basically, in my opinion, what's done is done. They know they should have gotten their pet spayed, but they didn't. They have made the decision to let their pet have the babies. We can't hound them about what they should have done because I'm sure they already know. If you don't want to congratulate them after their pet has had healthy babies, that is fine, just don't respond to their post. Sometimes not saying anything at all is much better than hounding. JMHO

Firstly Im all FOR congratulating members when their kittens have given birth healthily. Why? Because the kittens have been born safe and alive and mum cat is ok. I have read too many times heart breaking stories of kittens still born or passing away soon after birth...and it is awful for the owners to go through that. So when it does go well, saying 'congratulations' is my way of appreciating the fact that the birth has been successful.

Hopefully there are a few members out there who will agree with me on this.... for whatever reason their cat has ended up pregnant (NB: I am pro spaying/neutering having learned about the importance of this), the pregnancy of their cat is an important time now that it has happened as they are concerned about the cat's health and pregnancy progress, and the kitten's health too. The positive support of fellow TCS members at this time is essential. To make us feel confident that we are doing the best for our pregnant cats and to ensure that we are actually doing the right thing. For many of us, its the first time we are experiencing cat pregnancy and kitten birth..so its a rollercoaster experience.

I respect that members such as Kumbulu and others, who deal with the woes of unwanted kittens being born on a daily basis will have a different opinion. But for those of us where it is our cherished pet who has fallen pregnant (for whatever reason) or the local pregnant stray has decided to adopt us, being told the only decent thing to do is spay and abort is painful and unhelpful IMO, when our intentions as owners are to ensure the BEST for that cat and its kittens from hereon, in a pro-life manner. Of course, spay/abort should be mentioned as an option, but if that is not the road the owner wants to go down, the owner needs to know that it is personally responsible for the health, welfare and finding good homes for those kittens. The positive support of the TCS Pregnant Cat and Kitten forum really does help with encouraging and ensuring that personal responsbility.

And if the cat is late into its pregnancy, so spay/abort is not an option, its best (IMO) to encourage good pregnancy and kitten care in a positive way, which the forum does.

I know there are irresponsible cat owners out there who let their cats get pregnant without any thought for their cat or its kittens . But the people who post in the pregnant cat and kitten care forum are just not like that, Id like to think. We monitor each other's cats pregnancies..we care from afar for each others cats..we make friends from this process..we advise the mum cat needs to be spayed asap once the kittens are weaned...we encourage good kitten care... the least we can say is 'congratulations' (Thank goodness they are born safe and healthy! And yes....they do look cute). Its about making a situation that 'has happened and won't change whether its right or wrong' a positive situation...so the kittens get the best start in life and mum cat is looked after too.

I have kept all the kittens (except for 1 who went to my parents) that have ever been born under my roof. They have been spayed/neutered and vaccinated and live like Princes and Princesses. The exception to that, in terms of spaying, was Olivia who recently gave birth and will be spayed (I certainly dont intend of breeding kittens infinitely!). Im keeping her kittens, taking the total number of cats in my care to 7. She and the newborn kittens will be spayed (Olivia already has her spay booked). Why I mention this is because:

a) these cats are my children and I take their care very seriously. I cherish everytime I was congratulated on their birth by others because I am so proud of them. I cherish the people who congratulated Tinkerbelle and Olivia and who supported and advised me in the past in a positive way. These people may not realise, but I value these people so much. They feel like ' my other family'.

b) oddly enough, I would not have extended my cat family by getting a kitten(s)/cat(s) from a cat rescue if my own cats didnt have kittens. Because the cats fell pregnant, I felt it was my responsbility to keep as many of their kittens. Good job, the number of kittens was not huge, so I could do that. If more kittens were born, I would be in a different situation and would have had to find good homes for some (which in fact, I had prepared for and already had homes lined up). Having all these cats has made me into the cat crazy person I am...I would rather spay/abort myself than not have each and every one of these cherubs in my life today. I have realised and learned so much about cats and their care/health/behaviour from having them that in future I want to extend this to helping other cats through fostering pregnant cats/kittens.

Why i mention the above i because my experiences have been positive and happy ones. Ok, not everyone can keep the kittens. But they can find good homes for them. Encouraging people in that process and taking an interest in those kittens while they are still in the TCS member's care is just a small gift of our time that a fair few of us are happy to give on here. Not doing that because 'there are other kittens out there that need homes or because their are so many kittens out there that don't make it' isnt a helpful approach (IMO) because its happened, the kittens are here, we need to deal with it.

I know in the harsh reality of life, kitten birth and finding homes may not be so 'positive', particularly for the rescuers and those who have to deal with the trauma of kitten death/illness. But for those of us who have been through cat pregnancy safe and well and we have the intentions of ensuring that the kittens in our care do get good care and forever homes, a "congratulations" on their safe and healthy birth is just normal, nice, natural, positive thing to say (well, from my heart, I feel it is).

Kumbulu - this isnt a hounding at all. I so respect the work you do and I respect your opinion. Just others out there, like me, whose experiences are limited to the 'one off' pregnancies of our pets need and cherish that positive support and encouragement. I hope you don't think that we contribute to the problem of unwanted kittens globally. I think most of us are trying our damned hardest to make sure the cats and kittens in our care have good lives.

Sorry about the long post

I feel as you do. I would feel like a hypocrite if I were to congratulate someone for allowing their cat to have kittens when there are so many who need loving homes. If it is a case of someone getting a pregnant cat dumped on them I don't see where congratulations would be appropriate anyway - more like thank you for helping out.

I do not see your example response as hounding at all. Sounded very helpful and respectful to me. I too think it's more appropriate to give helpful advice but no congratulations are in order IMO. To me, (and my own personal opinion) that's equivalent of congratulating a 14 year old on getting pregnant.

we are not congratulating them on the cat getting pregnant at all , we congratulate the fact everything went well during the birth and the kittens are healthy.
I do not see your example response as hounding at all. Sounded very helpful and respectful to me. I too think it's more appropriate to give helpful advice but no congratulations are in order IMO. To me, (and my own personal opinion) that's equivalent of congratulating a 14 year old on getting pregnant.
the last part about a 14 year old i will comment on even though it has NOTHING to do with this thread , again its the same thing , you do not congratulate her for getting pregnant , but congratulate her on the birth of a healthy baby. i was 15 so i do know what it was like.
and regrads to helping out a stray pregnant cat , yes well done for taking her in and looking after her , but what is so wrong with saying congrats for her having healthy babys and for a healthy birth?
anyway iv said all i have to say on this matter and i can really see this getting into a heated debate which i will not waste my time with.
good luck to those of you who have a pregnant mum or a new litter of kittens , and also to those of you who do a wonderfull job of fostering. i hope everything goes very well for them and they all find loving forever homes.

That's my point exactly!

lol, my point too

"but what is so wrong with saying congrats for her having healthy babys and for a healthy birth?" yep i agree with that.

if you start to scream at someone to get there cat fixed, you are going to lose them. I also know people from overseas who think we are the mean the ones for forcing are cats that we say we love to have operations.

The only way you are going to get people to take the time, and the big part spend the money is to get it into there heads that getting them fixed is the best idea for them.

but as for me , if my cat got out , and got knocked up( for lack ofa better term) no way would i kill the kittens, sorry, if i could not find good homes for them, then i guess i now have that manymore fur balls running around. I see no difference between killing them in there mother then putting them in a bag and tossing them off a bridge. IMO

when my cat was pregnant my french friends were having a go at me and saying now what etc.they told me I should put them down using a bag!!Thats what they do and have done they said when they ended up with kittens
I said I would happily raise them and find them good homes which has happened.All their future owners are lovely and constantly visit.
then I explained how she would be having the operation once finished nursing and they said I was cruel
You cant win with some people

This is kind of why I just stay out of the pregnant cat and kitten care section... I can say that it's good the mother cat and kittens are healthy, I can thank people for taking in a cat that needed them. But saying congratulations kind of bothers me a bit.

I have bugged a few people to get their cats spayed or neutered, but when there's already injury to a cat from fighting, that's hardly wrong to suggest, is it?

What bothers me most is when someone says they are not going to get their cat spayed as they want her to have another litter, because they want the kittens. If they want kittens they should adopt or foster, be part of the solution not the problem.

I have found a bag of dumped kittens before, it was horrible. Two were too weak to make it a few hours till I could take them to the vet the next morning. The other three were sick but recovered with antibiotics. DH (then bf) and I found homes for them. One, a feisty little torti, I seen a couple of years later. She was a happy spoiled house cat.

I agree, I stay out of the forum. I have to admit I did do something like hounding for a very short period of time until Gaye set me straight and eventually I just realized it made me sad.

There aren't good reasons that your cat is pregnant, unless she came to you that way. Period. Does that mean if your cat is pregnant you are a horrible person? No. Does that mean you made a pretty serious mistake? Yes.

And when people continue on about previous litters and how they just don't feel like spaying, it makes me totally nutso and there is no way to converse because if you are gentle enough not to scare them off (theyre usually newbies) they won't get it, and if you are adamant enough to be adequate, it turns into as close as TCS gets to flaming.

For the sake of my own sanity, I just stay out of it, especially since I probably don't have any particularly great advice.

I have to admit that the congratulations don't sit well with me. I might say something about how they're cute, healthy looking, etc...but "congrats" just doesn't feel right.

My only problem with the part I bolded in the above quote is that more often than not, it was preventable and the owners had a choice about "going through that". Sometimes it's awful. I have buried more than a few dead kittens and it is awful.

With all that said, I'm embarassed to admit that my cat "Momma" had a second litter before I put enough effort into catching her and getting her spayed. I could have gotten it done sooner, but I obviously didn't try hard enough. That's the truth. It was no "accident"...it could have been prevented and for that I feel terrible.

Tania, excellent, EXCELLENT post.

I agree with everything and think it is 100% INAPPROPRIATE to congratulate someone whose cat has had kittens. Giving advice and suport in the scary times is one thing, and saying something like "aren't they cute!" or "I'm happy everyone is healthy" would be more appropriate, but I would never and will never rejoice in more kittens being born. I think that offering support, being welcoming and making the poster feel safe is one thing...then they'l trust our advice and SPAY! But I feel like the endless posts of anticipation, excitement and congratulations really downplay the tragedy that is more kittens being born.

9,589 - the number of shelter animals euthanized TODAY in the U.S. I feel like every single post needs to have that info on it. In fact, I'm going to add that to my sig. Then, maybe people will be reminded that despit their excitement...well...we've got a problem on our hands.

Would you say that about stillborn child?

if a child is stillborn, you would offer condolences
if a child is born healthy, you would offer congratulations.

Whether the mum got pregnant at a young age or couldnt afford to raise that child or through an affair, doesnt matter when it comes to congratulating simply on the healthy safe birth of that child.

Now taking that into context of cats.....this isnt about congratulating the fact that someone 'irresponsibly' let their cats have kittens for whatever reason, its about congratulating on a healthy safe birth, as you would do a child....or come to think of it...piglet, duckling, puppy etc

Ever since I joined TCS, 'congratulating' on the healthy and safe birth has been commonplace I have observed. Ok some dont engage in it...thats cool. But a fair few do. Are the anti-congratulators saying that everyone who congratulates (who I may add are a fair share of the Pregnant Cat/Kitten Forum users) is 'inappropriate?"

There is nothing productive to be had in a comparison between women having babies and cats having kittens.

I am not sure why you put irresponsibly in quotes, because it is irresponsible. Female cats should be spayed before their first heat. Not doing this is irresponsible. It's not a hugely awful error, because you can still prevent pregnancy with a little effort. But it is irresponsible. You could hardly call it responsible!

That said, any time someone is upset about something is not the time to do anything but try and make them feel better, so I agree, and would offer condolences for their sadness.

I don't think that's an equal comparison. There's a difference between mature, responsible adults who have babies and cats who mate just because they can.

ETA: sorry..."because they can" is not what I was trying to convey. There's no point in trying to compare a preventable cat pregnancy to any human pregnancy...so I'll leave it at that.

You have made good points about the meaning of your personal congratulations...BUT, it's my feeling that in general the meaning often comes across as encouragment for the owners' actions, rather than simply happiness that the kittens are healthy.

I guess with that in mind I feel that "I'm happy to hear that mom and the kittens are healthy" is more appropriate than things like CONGRATS with a bunch of "party" smilies right after it.

thank you minxie , i know a lot of people say humans and cats etc are different. but dont we all class our beloved animals our family? weather they have been in our lives for years or only a few hours , i feel the same about every animal that has come through my door.
yes i know there are 1000s of cats/kittens being pts every week , and even more looking for there forever homes. but there will always be someone who needs our help and support.
and i really dont want to get into a debate about children etc. but there are hundreds of children put into care , yet when someone has had a one night stand say ( accidental) and falls pregnant when that baby is born healthy what is it we do ? we congratulat them.
i will say this over and over again , we do not congratulat the fact the cat got pregnant , so i dont see why this was brought up , we congratulat on a healthy litter of kittens .
when these little ones dont make it , we offer our condolences, so why is it ok to offer this but not a congratulations?

I've observed the same, it seems to be commonplace. TBH, I probably did it a couple of times...but now that "kitten season" is here, I've seen so many party smilies in the pregnant cat/kitten forum that it opened my eyes a little. I don't feel good about "congrats" anymore.

The comparison is made to explain why people say congratulations. because its a healthy safe birth. period.

'irresponsibly' was put in inverted commas for speech purposes...'talk writing'... its when you would say a word with more stress on it (tone wise). Im not refuting that not spaying is irresponsible. What im trying to get across is when a 'congratulations for the healthy birth' is given, its made with no judgement about the (ir)responsibility of the owner. By putting it in inverted commas, i don't mean 'alleged irresponsibility'. Im emphasing that offering congratulations is not about congratulating irresponsibility. That is not the intention of the people who congratulate.

Humans and cats are different, though I have to beg to differ with they mate just because they can.
They mate because they have an irresistible hormonal drive to do so. They are different, for one thing, if something is wrong with the kittens and the mother cat eats them as is in her nature to do, do we argue that she should receive the death penalty? Or even that she was doing something wrong?
No, because cats do not have consciences. They do not have morals, or an ability to judge what is "right" or "wrong" because such concepts exist only for humans.
When the kittens are born, the vast vast majority of them will never see their mom or littermates again after awhile. If they really are so humanlike, isn't it cruel to sell or adopt out her children as soon as they are weaned? Would you do that to a child?

To me, quotes are quotes, and they mean "I don't really mean this" unless you are literally quoting something. Sorry for misunderstanding your usage of them, I've never seen it before.

Zissou my comparison to a child is based on how WE react to a healthy safe birth. If we congratulate the safe birth of a child, why is it inappropriate to do that for another creature in our care?. We dont look at the reasons whether that birth should or should not have taken place in teh first place...that is a different debate in my eyes. This is about the human heart reacting to a healthy safe birth.

Yoru examples are valid differences between cats and humans but they have nothing to do with the principle of us humans congratulating on a safe healthy birth, as opposed to a problematic birth (IMO)

Zissou...I'm on your side I'm the one who said "because they can"...it was a poor choice of words. It's my fault for participating in the human/cat pregnancy part of this discussion. Sorry.

I wasn't responding to your post. I was responding to Tasha's.

Problem is, I rarely see "congratulations on a safe healthy birth". OTOH, we ususally see big pink letters that say just "congrats" with a bunch of party smilies after it. There's a difference in the 2 messages and how they would be interpreted.