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This guy has a point.

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070423/...ag_complaint_2
post #2 of 19
Wow, Cindy. I agree with you. And you know why they aren't lowered for servicemen. The flags would always be at half staff and our fearless leader doesn't want to remind people of the mess he created.
post #3 of 19
To be honest I'm shocked that this doesn't occur for our service people killed in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere. I understand why the flags were lowered for the victims at Va. Tech but I don't understand why this isn't done for our own troops.

On a side note, I wouldn't be surprised if some disciplinary action is taken against Sgt. Wilt for his commentary. Soldiers don't exactly have the same quarantee of freedom of speech that is provided by the Constitution that civilians do. Hopefully, nothing will happen.
post #4 of 19
The flag then would never fly above half mast...

It probably does not happen because it would be a daily reminder to us of the true cost of war, just as we are not allowed to see the KIA coffins come off the airplanes. It makes it too real.
post #5 of 19
Too add to Zissou's mom: It would also be a reminder that we're losing men and thus losing the war. Bush still wants to keep his 2% popularity.

Lately though (pre-Va Tech) I have seen certain flags flown at half mast. I wasn't sure if it was a government holiday or what, but there are certain state agencies around here that are flying at half mast everyday.
post #6 of 19
I just posted something similar to this on another board I'm on - my heart goes out the families from VA Tech, but why are THEY so special? What about those risking their lives everyday? We should be honoring ALL of those horrible deaths.

It'll never happen, though.
post #7 of 19
I think one of the reasons why they don't do it is because VA was a tragedy. The soliders who have died in this war volunteered, so many think that even though they volunteered for the military and didn't CHOOSE to go to war, that dying is still a given in any battle.
post #8 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuzy View Post
Wow, Cindy. I agree with you. And you know why they aren't lowered for servicemen. The flags would always be at half staff and our fearless leader doesn't want to remind people of the mess he created.
That's an understatement. He's dug a hole so deep it will carry into the next presidental term and maybe even after that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
The flag then would never fly above half mast...
I couldn't have said it better myself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReesesPBC View Post
I think one of the reasons why they don't do it is because VA was a tragedy. The soliders who have died in this war volunteered, so many think that even though they volunteered for the military and didn't CHOOSE to go to war, that dying is still a given in any battle.
I think you have a point there. It's like the 9/11 tradegy, however, it is time to move on after 6 years.
post #9 of 19
I'm a little confused by this thread... yes, we should honor each and every death in the war in Iraq. But why need that take away from honoring people who were murdered out of nowhere while they were sitting in class? Do we only have so much remembrance to go around?

Don't get me wrong, I look at the casualties of Iraq listed on CNN at the end of every month, and read their descriptions, and look at their pictures, and I usually cry. Sometimes from sadness, sometimes from relief that I don't know any of those faces this month.

But the two things are incomparable. You know, your family knows, that when you go to Iraq it is the most dangerous thing you will hopefully ever do in your life.

Going to French class isn't.
post #10 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I'm a little confused by this thread... yes, we should honor each and every death in the war in Iraq. But why need that take away from honoring people who were murdered out of nowhere while they were sitting in class? Do we only have so much remembrance to go around?

Don't get me wrong, I look at the casualties of Iraq listed on CNN at the end of every month, and read their descriptions, and look at their pictures, and I usually cry. Sometimes from sadness, sometimes from relief that I don't know any of those faces this month.

But the two things are incomparable. You know, your family knows, that when you go to Iraq it is the most dangerous thing you will hopefully ever do in your life.

Going to French class isn't.
I never said we should not honor the students and faculty that died. Newsweek had a very moving article on that tragedy. Just think the thousands of other senseless deaths shouldn't be ignored. Presidents die of natural causes and the flag is lowered for weeks. Shouldn't those who die for this country receive similar honors?
post #11 of 19
I think that they should be at half mast for any time there is war, people are dying every day doing a job I don't envy them for. I appreciate being able to live my life in relative peace while soldiers are out there defending my right to do so!
post #12 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
Too add to Zissou's mom: It would also be a reminder that we're losing men and thus losing the war. Bush still wants to keep his 2% popularity.

Lately though (pre-Va Tech) I have seen certain flags flown at half mast. I wasn't sure if it was a government holiday or what, but there are certain state agencies around here that are flying at half mast everyday.

Do you equate losing men with losing a war? There are lives lost in every war, we won WWII but it was not without a loss of life.

War is not a walk in the park.

Good grief California has many more people per day being murdered than we are losing in Iraq per day. What shall we do about that?
We are killing each other at a much higher rate than our brave soldiers are being killed in Iraq.
post #13 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
The flag then would never fly above half mast...

It probably does not happen because it would be a daily reminder to us of the true cost of war, just as we are not allowed to see the KIA coffins come off the airplanes. It makes it too real.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
I'm a little confused by this thread... yes, we should honor each and every death in the war in Iraq. But why need that take away from honoring people who were murdered out of nowhere while they were sitting in class? Do we only have so much remembrance to go around?

Don't get me wrong, I look at the casualties of Iraq listed on CNN at the end of every month, and read their descriptions, and look at their pictures, and I usually cry. Sometimes from sadness, sometimes from relief that I don't know any of those faces this month.

But the two things are incomparable. You know, your family knows, that when you go to Iraq it is the most dangerous thing you will hopefully ever do in your life.

Going to French class isn't.
I definitely respect your view on this one Very well said!
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal211 View Post
my heart goes out the families from VA Tech, but why are THEY so special? What about those risking their lives everyday? We should be honoring ALL of those horrible deaths.
This is mainly what I was responding to. And the general feeling--though nobody outright stated it-- of begrudging the victims, survivors, and families of students at VT the outpouring of support they've been shown.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuzy View Post
I never said we should not honor the students and faculty that died. Newsweek had a very moving article on that tragedy. Just think the thousands of other senseless deaths shouldn't be ignored. Presidents die of natural causes and the flag is lowered for weeks. Shouldn't those who die for this country receive similar honors?
Yes. But supposedly their deaths are not senseless. IMO of the Iraq war, that is one of my major major major problems with it-- that the deaths are senseless. But that's not how it is supposed to be. When our grandparents/parents/whoever fought in WWII nobody ever once even thought their death might be senseless. That was a real war, and had a real reason. We're having a hard time understanding it in America today, after Korea and Vietnam and Iraq (IMO we didn't just lose them, they are and were actually unwinnable) but when we send our men and women and brothers and daughters off to possibly die in battle... it should NEVER be senseless. Ever. They are not told that it will be, and I hope with all my heart that anyone who has lost someone does not really believe that. Our military rests on the foundation that people want to join it to protect their country. Not die senseless deaths in some hot desert halfway around the world.

Though, this war is supposedly over. And no, war isn't a walk in the park, which is why normal leaders try to avoid them, not start them. And what California homicide rates have to do with the war in Iraq is unclear. The majority of the people who perpetrated those murders get caught. Who is responsible for the deaths of soldiers in Iraq?

At Virginia Tech, the students did not die for a cause, nor did they have any idea of the risk they faced that morning. They were in the wrong place at the wrong time and were killed by someone who was simply mean and vengeful and disturbed. Their deaths truly were senseless. And doubly painful.
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
I'm very glad since this war is so "senseless" that we have a voluntary military and no one is being forced to enlist.
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I'm very glad since this war is so "senseless" that we have a voluntary military and no one is being forced to enlist.
And I'm sure those volunteers wish the comander in chief had some sense.
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I'm very glad since this war is so "senseless" that we have a voluntary military and no one is being forced to enlist.
And when people volunteer for the military, the picture painted is one of opportunity to further their education, find a career, and be successful. The "Army Wants You" posters aren't ones of dead decimated bodies lying around, limbs blown off and strewn across the battlefield. They're happy pictures of successful people, and for some of the people who join the military it's the only option they have if they ever want to be successful. Usually, and that is not to say it is *always* the case, but usually when people join the military.. they don't expect to go to war. Most only join for their four years, possibly six, but even in that time.. they still don't expect to go to war. That, of course, can't be said for those that joined in order to go fight the war. No one is being forced to enlist, but they are, indeed, being forced to go to war, or face the only other option which ends in dishonorable discharge.

But back to the topic at hand...

I think it was a tragedy at VTech. I think we should honor them, but I also think that the US needs to wake up sometimes and remember exactly what's going on in Iraq. Not only have we lost our soldiers now, but the "oh so welcoming, we want you here" Iraqis have now lost over 10,000 innocent civilians. I'm amazed, with that death count which far surpasses the count of the twin towers.. they're just embracing our presence.
post #18 of 19
Thread Starter 
It is the military. Come one, the military goes to war if need be. EVERYONE that goes in the military knows there is a possibility they may go to war. If they can't handle that, don't enlist. They do get sworn in.
I don't feel that they should have to have posters of dead bodies to get the point across of what the military is. These aren't little children enlisting, give them some credit.

Are some here actually saying the military is misrepresenting self now?
post #19 of 19
I don't know about some, ck, but I definitely say they misrepresent themselves. Whether anyone else agrees or not is entirely beside the point. And I do support our military, just not those that sent them.

I completely agree that the flag should be at half mast. Actually, I'm definitely not pro-Iraq (which is not the same thing as to say not pro-war)..but I think we should commemerate *all* the lives lost in this war, US soldiers and Iraqi innocents by flying the flag at half mast.
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