Rice Protein Concentrate/Rice Gluten?

sunspot42 · Apr 20, 2007

Innova EVO is grain free. Canned tuna, chicken, turkey and other meats are typically grain free. Cat food isn't magic. Cats eat meat. Find meat that's as lightly-processed as possible and feed it to your cat. If you're worried about things like taurine content, supplement with a quality vitamin, and possibly add a little vegetable matter to your cat's meaty diet (though be careful - some vegetables like onions are toxic to cats).

Keep in mind that people successfully kept cats healthy feeding them table scraps for decades, if not centuries. If the food is of sufficient quality for you to eat, and it doesn't explicitly make cats sick the way onions or chocolate can, I can't think of anything better to be feeding them.

Clearly most of the pet food industry is far more focused on marketing and profits than they are on supplying a safe, reliable product. If they can't keep from poisoning our pets, it doesn't say much for the nutritional value of their product, either.

cloud_shade · Apr 20, 2007

Plain canned meats are not balanced--they do not have the right amounts of calcium and other minerals. While people did feed cats table scraps, cats also spent time outdoors hunting mice and birds to supplement their diet, and they didn't live very long. Personally, I'd rather have my cats live long lives with a small chance of harm due to commercial foods than die young because I wasn't feeding them an appropriate diet with the minerals they need to be healthy.

javern · Apr 20, 2007

All the evidence indicates the contaminates are in grains imported from China, there is no reason to boycott pet foods made with good ol USA grains. Some supplier over there decided to put profit over humanity and make their product look better than it actually was, boosting the protein levels artificially. I hope the pet food companies don't import ANY ingredients from China anymore.

sharky · Apr 20, 2007

sunspot42;1732438 said:
Innova EVO is grain free. Canned tuna, chicken, turkey and other meats are typically grain free. Cat food isn't magic. Cats eat meat. Find meat that's as lightly-processed as possible and feed it to your cat. If you're worried about things like taurine content, supplement with a quality vitamin, and possibly add a little vegetable matter to your cat's meaty diet (though be careful - some vegetables like onions are toxic to cats).

Keep in mind that people successfully kept cats healthy feeding them table scraps for decades, if not centuries. If the food is of sufficient quality for you to eat, and it doesn't explicitly make cats sick the way onions or chocolate can, I can't think of anything better to be feeding them.

Clearly most of the pet food industry is far more focused on marketing and profits than they are on supplying a safe, reliable product. If they can't keep from poisoning our pets, it doesn't say much for the nutritional value of their product, either.[/QUOTE]

You have some VERY ill advised ideas.... Since commercial cat and dog food has been avail ... lifespans HAVE GREATLY increased.In some countrys as much as double as one of our MODs pointed out.. Feeding just meat in not the right proportions of meat to bone and organ is NOT how to feed a cat ... PLEASE do a quick search on here under cat nutrition ... HUMAN TUNA Should NOT be feed as a staple in a cat diet as it WILL cause deficiancies as WILL ANY straight MUSCLE meat( which is what most humans consume)... Yes a supplement can help but finding the right one often takes alot of research and TALKING with a nutrition minded VET....

Yes this is a quality check for the pet food industry ... but in the weeks since the first recall there have been AT LEAST 10 HUMAN food recalls

...

I feed both commercial , homemade and raw ... BUT ONLY with the HELP OF a VET

sunspot42 · Apr 21, 2007

There isn't that much research involving pet lifespans. There are so many changing factors involved in determining their lifespans - quality of medical care, vaccinations, whether the animals are kept inside or allowed to roam freely, diet - I think it would be difficult to assert that any observed increase in lifespans is due to improved diet.

Most commercial diets are only tested on a handful of animals for a brief period of time - I think 6 months is the commercial standard. Given that independent tests have revealed many commercial diets do not provide levels of nutrition consistent with their labels - and now that they've taken to poisoning our pets - you'll forgive me if I place zero faith in their claims regarding both what pets require in their diets and what their products deliver. Elizabeth Hodgkins has a lot to say about this - see http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.html for example.

I think that a raw diet is potentially the most nutritionally complete diet for a cat, but I'm concerned about bacterial contamination. You noted that there have been several recent recalls of human food, which is true, but most of those have involved bacterial contamination of uncooked vegetable products - not generally an issue with canned meats.

cloud_shade · Apr 21, 2007

Actually, there have been studies and research surrounding the lack of certain nutrients in a cat's diet, calcium and taurine in particular. Lack of calcium can cause rickets, and lack of taurine results in dilated cardiomyopathy. It doesn't take 20 years of feeding studies to get the results of incomplete diets, as cats afflicted with these diseases show signs and often die sooner than their counterparts who have species-approrpriate amounts of essential vitamins and minerals.

http://www.peteducation.com/article....&articleid=651
http://www.vmth.ucdavis.edu/Cardio/c...ase32/text.htm
http://www.cathealth.com/FeedNutrit.htm

If you choose to feed raw or homemade foods, spend the money to get recipes that have been tested and formulated according to what veterinarians and scientists currently know about cats' needs. Otherwise, stick to finding the brand of commercial cat food that you can trust the most--smaller brands may be better than larger ones, and brands that offer more transparency may give you some piece of mind. I am still feeding canned Natural Balance, dry California Natural, and canned Evanger's because I know that I won't be able to create a safe diet for my cats on my own.

sharky · Apr 21, 2007

Originally Posted by sunspot42

There isn't that much research involving pet lifespans. There are so many changing factors involved in determining their lifespans - quality of medical care, vaccinations, whether the animals are kept inside or allowed to roam freely, diet - I think it would be difficult to assert that any observed increase in lifespans is due to improved diet.

Most commercial diets are only tested on a handful of animals for a brief period of time - I think 6 months is the commercial standard. Given that independent tests have revealed many commercial diets do not provide levels of nutrition consistent with their labels - and now that they've taken to poisoning our pets - you'll forgive me if I place zero faith in their claims regarding both what pets require in their diets and what their products deliver. Elizabeth Hodgkins has a lot to say about this - see http://www.catnutrition.org/diabetes.html for example.

I think that a raw diet is potentially the most nutritionally complete diet for a cat, but I'm concerned about bacterial contamination. You noted that there have been several recent recalls of human food, which is true, but most of those have involved bacterial contamination of uncooked vegetable products - not generally an issue with canned meats.

Please PM me if you WOULD like to learn/share info as you keep showing us HOW MUCH you HAVENT researched

... Canned meats are TOO HIGH in NA+ ie sodium and they lack the taurine since much is cooked out as well as the CA+ and Phos levels being out of wack ...Many on here can recommend a few books for you to see PROPERLY done homemade or raw . .... The site link you give is a good one did you read it all is my ???.. Here is a link to the recipes which are RAW and say nothing about canned meat..http://www.catnutrition.org/recipes.html
NO most were not veggie issues in human they were grain

... I understand bacterial contamination.... I have an easy answer , in over three yrs of feeding / recommending RAW she has yet to see any cases of it

... I have been working on it for two yrs and have two immunocomprimised animals plus two immunocomprimised humans and NO contamination HERE... But I feel like a restaurant with the cleanliness ....

sunspot42 · Apr 21, 2007

Yes - cats eating canned meat require calcium supplements, due to the phosphorous / calcium ratios you mentioned. Canned salmon is probably the most calcium-rich pre-cooked meat you can feed a cat. If your cat tolerates dairy, that can also function as a source for some calcium - cottage cheese is sometimes used. Last I read, bone meal is the most recommend calcium source for cats on a home cooked diet. Taurine supplements are also needed for cats eating a cooked meat diet, although some components - like fish and egg yolks - contain more taurine than others. Ideally seek out human-grade supplements.

I think one of the biggest lessons of this whole recall mess is to not depend on a single brand, let alone single variety of cat food to supply all of your pet's nutritional needs. If something goes wonky with that brand from a nutrition or safety standpoint, your cat's screwed.

I feed my cat Innova EVO canned, but frequently buy other quality, meat-based brands containing no processed grains to provide variety to her diet. I also feed her the occasional can of salmon or tuna, chicken or turkey. I plan on doing that more often going forward, in conjunction with natural supplements.

sharky · Apr 21, 2007

Originally Posted by sunspot42

Yes - cats eating canned meat require calcium supplements, due to the phosphorous / calcium ratios you mentioned. Canned salmon is probably the most calcium-rich pre-cooked meat you can feed a cat. If your cat tolerates dairy, that can also function as a source for some calcium - cottage cheese is sometimes used. Last I read, bone meal is the most recommend calcium source for cats on a home cooked diet. Taurine supplements are also needed for cats eating a cooked meat diet, although some components - like fish and egg yolks - contain more taurine than others. Ideally seek out human-grade supplements.

I think one of the biggest lessons of this whole recall mess is to not depend on a single brand, let alone single variety of cat food to supply all of your pet's nutritional needs. If something goes wonky with that brand from a nutrition or safety standpoint, your cat's screwed.

I feed my cat Innova EVO canned, but frequently buy other quality, meat-based brands containing no processed grains to provide variety to her diet. I also feed her the occasional can of salmon or tuna, chicken or turkey. I plan on doing that more often going forward, in conjunction with natural supplements.

Bone meal is not my fav for Ca and phos ... due to it being HIGHLY PROCESSED and OVER COOKED... some use eggs shells ... I use a human/pet powder ...

cloud_shade · Apr 21, 2007

Originally Posted by sunspot42

I think one of the biggest lessons of this whole recall mess is to not depend on a single brand, let alone single variety of cat food to supply all of your pet's nutritional needs. If something goes wonky with that brand from a nutrition or safety standpoint, your cat's screwed.

I completely agree with you on that. I always try to rotate through several varieties and at least 2 or more brands for a variety of reasons, including avoiding fixation on a single food and providing more "complete" nutrition from a variety of different protein sources.

jcat · Apr 22, 2007

Originally Posted by sunspot42

I think one of the biggest lessons of this whole recall mess is to not depend on a single brand, let alone single variety of cat food to supply all of your pet's nutritional needs. If something goes wonky with that brand from a nutrition or safety standpoint, your cat's screwed.

I agree, and believe that those pet food companies which claim it best for your pets' health to stick to one brand are simply interested in brand loyalty. Unfortunately, much of the nutritional information vets learn is provided by pet food producers, so many just pass on that advice.

Rice Protein Concentrate/Rice Gluten?

sunspot42

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cloud_shade

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javern

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sharky

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sunspot42

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cloud_shade

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sharky

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sunspot42

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sharky

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cloud_shade

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jcat

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