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post #31 of 49
That is my exact reasoning, even if black people who could trace back to enslaved ancestors - the programmes would encourage racism and what you call ignorance because you are going to have white people paying taxes who can trace back to being slaves themselves (or not being involved in enslaving people at all) paying it and they will be angry about it.
post #32 of 49
So then can I receive free schooling in the middle east if I had an ancestor that fought in one of the crusades?

Or can I receive a free education because my Irish ancestors were treated like trash when they came over the America in the 19th century?

My point is this: focus on the current issues and ask for retribution from that. Not something that happened a long time ago.

And yes, it does create jealousy, and in a way encourages stereotyping. I am working on my masters and I am paying for my own school. People that bring up retribution for something that happen 100+ years ago makes me angry. I would be paying for my own college and I'm contributing to someone else's.

I guess I just have a hard time accepting that education is the key. I think that making the neighborhoods safer so that kids will feel confident when they wait for their bus ride to school is the key. Detroit is losing in the counts at their public schools because of the crime that occurs. A few months back some children waiting for their bus ride were held at gunpoint and robbed. I say just clean up the streets first, make children confident in going to school and the bus stop and we'll start the education process.
post #33 of 49
Yes, that might happen, but not every person will be racist because of it, especially those who educate themselves on why it is helping. Certainly, there will be a minority who are racist and would be anyways.

The other thing is, the more people we help get into the work force, the more people we have paying into the tax base. I know there are plenty of people paying in taxes of every colour and I speak for myself and when I say that it's not like I hold one person responsible for this, but together we can work to educate people.

I'd happily give a few tax dollars to help educate another person and I do pay taxes here for schools anyways, so why not for my own people or another minority group that needs it. I'll be paying a lot more taxes when I graduate and so would the people this system would help.

I'm just suggesting a possible alternative to the situation as is that has a great deal of success, but if it isn't a possibility, what else can we do to make our countries better?
post #34 of 49
Even if they educate themselves on why it is happening, it does not mean they will agree to it. What seems so clear to you may be completely different to someone else. I, for example, do not agree with positive discrimination, as while it is is positive for those who have typically not done as well, it will hold others back. I firmly believe that as individuals we have to work for what we want in life and it shouldn't be handed to us because of who our parents or ancestors are. You will just send up spending on the typically 'left behind' and create a whole new culture where white people are left behind.

If something is to be done to make the world better, it has to be done equally to all otherwise you are just adjusting the inequalities of one group to another - it moves it around and gives the government nice figures to say 'we helped this many 'blah blah' people, but in the mean time, that money is not being spent elsewhere, where it is still needed also.
post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
So then can I receive free schooling in the middle east if I had an ancestor that fought in one of the crusades?

Or can I receive a free education because my Irish ancestors were treated like trash when they came over the America in the 19th century?

I'm Greek, German, Irish and Czech, what do I get? Oh yeah, Big Fat Nothing!
post #36 of 49
Quote:
Colin's mom was from Vietnam- she had to flea her country for fear of her life when communism took over everything....do you see them asking for money or a free ride?? Absolutely not!I think people are just trying to milk the system for
I worked in the welfare office when the vietnamese had to flee to this country with our assitance. Only the well to do were able to get out when the communists took over, there were many left behind. When they came over, the planes were so crowded they strapped people to the floors of them, I think they took out the seats. it was quite a horror scene.
When they got here, they were entitled to everything we had. they got education, housing, food stamps and money. I know because I was giving it to them. they were eligible because they immigrated here under those circumstances. Kind of a reparation for what we did to their country.
post #37 of 49
I really don't care what color you are. The bottom line is that everyone should be looking for ways to improve themselves WITHOUT relying on the goverment to help them out their ENTIRE lives. Too many people (no matter what the race) have the "welfare mentality" of the government "owes" me.....(whatever) because I'm poor, black, Native American, etc.

Look at how many of the orientals come to this country to seek a good living -and most of them WORK to get what they have. They get off their butts and do something and don't expect handouts. What do the rest do???? Whine and complain they are too "good" for a job like cleaning bathrooms. They want you to hand them an executive job because they are "owed" that for something their ancestors didn't have.
post #38 of 49
sure why not, pay them.

only if all affirmative actions programs are removed.
and all the crying and you owe me stuff comes to a stop
also if you accept payment, then you must leave the US since it seems you are unhappy about being here. You can get your money as you get on the plane or boat to leave.

and how your at it, i want a share of your money for family that died figthing for the north during the civil war.
post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I really don't care what color you are. The bottom line is that everyone should be looking for ways to improve themselves WITHOUT relying on the goverment to help them out their ENTIRE lives. Too many people (no matter what the race) have the "welfare mentality" of the government "owes" me.....(whatever) because I'm poor, black, Native American, etc.

Look at how many of the orientals come to this country to seek a good living -and most of them WORK to get what they have. They get off their butts and do something and don't expect handouts. What do the rest do???? Whine and complain they are too "good" for a job like cleaning bathrooms. They want you to hand them an executive job because they are "owed" that for something their ancestors didn't have.

I think it is so easy for people to say stuff like this and never actually have to live it.

I'm sure you'd all be disgusted at some of things I've gone through, my parents and grandparents have gone through, my closest friends have gone through, and the children I work with have gon through. I don't think you are taking into consideration how hard it is. I wish you (the general you) could live a couple days in a minority's life.

It seems to me that a lot of people are sitting high and mighty generalizing that no minority wants to work or help themselves. Why don't we all just come out and say they're all lazy, welfare bums that are no good and wouldn't be good at any job anyways cuz they don't show up for work or they are always late and they think they are too good for anything, because that is how it's coming across to me.

These words seem very hateful and I'm really done with this thread because the hate and complete ignorance is just too much for me to read anymore.
post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats View Post
When they got here, they were entitled to everything we had. they got education, housing, food stamps and money. I know because I was giving it to them. they were eligible because they immigrated here under those circumstances. Kind of a reparation for what we did to their country.

what we did? get real, the japanese and french where there and did the real damange go look it up. Even to this day , set foot there and you know what people ask you? Why did america leave us to the north.. . its cause of the media the left, and thinking like that america failed a whole generation.
post #41 of 49
Quote:
Even to this day , set foot there and you know what people ask you? Why did america leave us to the north..
when were you there?
post #42 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveSiamese View Post
I think it is so easy for people to say stuff like this and never actually have to live it.

I'm sure you'd all be disgusted at some of things I've gone through, my parents and grandparents have gone through, my closest friends have gone through, and the children I work with have gon through. I don't think you are taking into consideration how hard it is. I wish you (the general you) could live a couple days in a minority's life.

...

These words seem very hateful and I'm really done with this thread because the hate and complete ignorance is just too much for me to read anymore.
I think the point everyone is trying to make is that plenty of people go through hard times, minority or not. I am Irish, my ancestors have gone through hard times, so have I. I know people from every nationality who have suffered poverty, discrimination etc - it is not just because your (in the general sense not you directly Kallie) people have been discriminated against in the past.
post #43 of 49
Quote:
What you just outline scares the bejeezus outta me. I have family members who were put in residential schools (if you don't know what those are, you should definately google them) and trust me, what you are suggesting is not the answer and would only make things worse. Taking children away from parents is NOT the answer.
I am not talking about your run of the mill poor person, I am talking radical, disgusting, never return lost generations. When I worked for children and youth and would go into north Philadelphia, the best thing that could happen to these kids would they be removed from their parents lack of care. Or do you think living with your crack addicted mother who spends all her time across the street in the crack house, and leaves you and your siblings to fen for yourselves is a good thing? Maybe in the middle of the winter, all gas burners gone, and roached as big as mice everywhere? A little job, or a free apartment isn't going to help, and these people get all that is out there, they can't cope, they are mentally ill, alcoholic, drug addicted, whatever. they are a lot more than poor and discriminated against. Plenty of poor and discriminated against do just fine with what they have, and work hard to make a better life for their kids. Others don't give a crap. How about the time I had to go to the hospital to get the newborn crack addicted baby to put in foster care. It was the 25 year old mothers 8th child and her third crack addicted child.
To break this pattern we need radical involvement such as I described above. It would be voluntary, because most of the people I described would welcome the opportunity to not have to be responsible for their kids, they aren't anyway, and then perhaps, they could be convinced to clean themselves up, respond to whatever treatment they need, and maybe become productive members of society, if not at least they are not going to ruin their children too, they will have a chance.
If I were Oprah, I would start a program like this. If I won the lottery, but of course I would include a no-kill cat rescue on the premises as well. The children could learn love from caring for the cats.
post #44 of 49
Ok without getting into the debate I think EVERYONE should get free eduaction. Sounds nice it would never happen but sounds good.
post #45 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by IloveSiamese View Post
It seems to me that a lot of people are sitting high and mighty generalizing that no minority wants to work or help themselves. Why don't we all just come out and say they're all lazy, welfare bums that are no good and wouldn't be good at any job anyways cuz they don't show up for work or they are always late and they think they are too good for anything, because that is how it's coming across to me.

These words seem very hateful and I'm really done with this thread because the hate and complete ignorance is just too much for me to read anymore.
Wow, Yeah, 'cause all of us posting on this thread haven't worked their asses off for what they have, or anything like that
post #46 of 49
That's just it. Anyone who is posting here regardless of where and how they started in life has a cat, has an internet connection, and is interested enough in this topic to want to debate it.

IMO you can go around and around on affirmative action, free education, etc, but the simple fact remains that life is not FAIR. Some kids are born smart, some are dumb. Some are born rich and some poor. Some have great parents and some have crappy parents.
You do the best with what life gives you. There are kids born with a silver spoon in their mouths and mommy and daddy pave the way for them and make their lives easy and they make themselves miserable. There are kids born with nothing who make a great life for themselves. Money does not buy happiness.

This is why I think you have to concentrate on what happened to you personally. If I personally suffer because of my race or gender then yes, I would like something to make up for it. But if something bad was done to my parents or grandparents, then no. Because you don't know what else bad happened to the parents or grandparents of the people you are trying to extract something from. I am not saying that there is no such thing as discrimination. Yes it is real. But asking for retribution for something that happened well over 100 years ago from people who are not responsible and did not profit from it-sorry I just do not agree.
post #47 of 49
2dogmom - you said it so much better than I have
post #48 of 49
lol not only that , but you would also have to go after the dutch, and english who took part in the slave trade.you would need to hunt down which ever village leader sold his people and his prisoners of war. etc etrc etc. that is if they want to be fair about.

by giving those its not going to stop the owe me thing that so many people seem to have, so its pointless. there is not one person alive today who was a slave, who sold slaves, or made money off of slaves(hmm there are some business still around). I have 0 gulit for being white, and 0 gulit for being male, and 0 gulit on slaves. soooo i feel i owe somone nothing.
post #49 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
lol not only that , but you would also have to go after the dutch, and english who took part in the slave trade.you would need to hunt down which ever village leader sold his people and his prisoners of war. etc etrc etc. that is if they want to be fair about.

by giving those its not going to stop the owe me thing that so many people seem to have, so its pointless. there is not one person alive today who was a slave, who sold slaves, or made money off of slaves(hmm there are some business still around). I have 0 gulit for being white, and 0 gulit for being male, and 0 gulit on slaves. soooo i feel i owe somone nothing.
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