Last night on Trading Spouses

Sound like people who live in the past, IMO.

What kind of retribition was the family looking for?

I think there are a lot of people who think that and yes I do think it's crazy.

Seeing as how none of my ancestors were here before 1910 I don't see how I or anyone in my family profited from it in any way, shape or forum. Using the same agrument I could go after a couple of countries in the middle east or in Europe for the "sins of the fathers" but frankly I find it ridiculous.

Besides, what do these people do when it comes to children of mixed race marriages? Call it even?

Most likely reparations, monetary payment from the government. This subject comes up now and then, though I haven't heard it mentioned in quite a while.

The time for reparations is over. The people who suffered as slaves are long gone, as are the slave owners. We will never be able to compensate the people who directly endured the horror of living as slaves. 1865 was the time for reparations.

This is just a shameful way to try to play on "white guilt" and angle for yet another handout from the government.

IMO its too many generations beyond that time. I can see it to a point, but its not like it should be "owed" for the rest of time! Comes a point where you say enough is enough - 2000 is the start of a new millimum - so I say its about time we put that past in the past and look to making a BETTER FUTURE.

Personally (as a white person) I feel I don't owe ANYONE anything!

Thanks!!!

I agree with you 100% on the proper time for reparations. It isn't today it was 142 years ago. Unless you were still alive back then move on from it or find something else you feel you need reparations for.

I actually agree with that family. Slavery may be gone, but the social effects are still very prevelent.

I think that instead of monitary payments, another form it should take is free higher education or programs specifically for African Americans to help with the social issues. Or how about clean up the ghettos or universal health care.

The government needs to do something to help these people, not just ignor the problem just because the issues that stemed from the late 1800's and early 1900's. But racism and hatred continued much longer after slavery was ended. There was lynchings and evil things like that and no one can tell me that there isn't systemic (sp?) racism still present today.

These programs are in affect in the form of affirmative action, which some african americans consider and insult and a handout. One in particular, Clarence Thomas of the supreme court, but he would never be where he is without it.

Racisim does still exist and financial reparations are not going to stop that. AS far as ghettos, they exist in blac and white communities. I am in favor of having them cleaned up, but many people there are the problem. They don't cooperate with the police, they continue to have children out of wedlock (deliberately) and the cycle just continues. My solution would be radical, and many people would say it is taking away peoples rights, but it could be voluntary. I would set up a kibbutz type society in the middle of the ghetto. The chi8ldren would live and be educated in the kibbutz. The parents could visit and enroll in the free therapy and job training available. All girls between the age of 11 and 18 would be required to have implanted birth control devices, if there was one available for boys, same for them. In the kibbutz the children would recieve education, counseling and lots of love and self esteem. It would cost billions, but it would be a great opportunity for those that would never get out of the ghetto or the cycle. After 15 years of this program the cycle would be broken, and the communities could reclaim themselves and be somewhat healthy.

I know this will never happen, but if we took all that money wasted in Iraq, and had a pilot program like this in LA and New York, I think it would be well worth the money. Oh, and people like OPRAH who spend millions for schools in Africa with 200 thread sheets, could contribute to this program as well. We could really make a difference in this countries destiny with a program like this.

As far as trading spouses last night, I found both families despicable. That show always finds opposite ends of bottoms of the barrel, and shows how ridiculous they are. It is depressing to know they are out there. UInfortunately, they are an intact family, so I guess they might not qualify for my kibbutz idea. too bad.

Education, Education, Education. Does affirmitive action ensure that people recieve free higher education??

What you just outline scares the bejeezus outta me. I have family members who were put in residential schools (if you don't know what those are, you should definately google them) and trust me, what you are suggesting is not the answer and would only make things worse. Taking children away from parents is NOT the answer. These people need help to become proficiant(sp?) on their own, not to be treated like wards of the state. There also has to be REAL oppertunities. It's not a simple do this do that because the problems are so deeply rooted.

IN my community, which faces very similar social issues, education is helping. I am in a program specific to my ancestery *Metis*, which is called SUNTEP and we are a university program for teachers. This way, more of our own people can get out into the world with a non-eurocentric education and we can begin to education our own people, as well as all the other children we will encounter in order to combat the drop out rates and for instance, in the north, which is predominately First Nations, even if you do graduate, you've really only recieved a grade 7 education, so also to combat this terrible in justice.

It is beginning to work, and I think that if there were programs such as mine set up in the states, that it could really help.

Is there really though?? Is there a real oppertunity for everyone or just the top 2 percent? I don't buy that for one moment, or there wouldn't be the kind of poverty there is in existance today.

Why do so many families struggle to even exisit in America if it is the great land of oppertunity?

I know so many people who would love to do things, but I understand why people that live in great poverty seem like they don't want to help themselves (which they totally do)? What would you be focused on if you didn't know where your next meal was coming from or if you didn't have a home?

Bingo.

When people start teaching their teenage daughters that having babies is unacceptable at that age, when they expect their young men to *parent* their children, not just father them, and that education should be valued and is of utmost importance, then they will see a huge improvement in the quality of their lives.

Well then, let's pray that one of you doesn't end up in a similar situation where no one believes you deserve a hand up (not a hand out)


I got pregnant at 15, had my son when I was 16 and I am half way done my university degree to be a teacher. Thanks to my program, I had the oppertunity to pursue a higher education. If I had to pay for it myself, I would have been no where right now.

Put aside race and history for a minute, shouldn't we want to help these people based on the fact that their human beings in need of help?

I don't believe I owe anyone (black or white) anything. I got where I am today because I did it myself. I took care of me. I most likely never would've gotten a scholarship to college because I am a white female from a middle class family.

Affirmative action, IMHO, is ridiculous. You should earn a job on merit, not race or religion or sex.

Oppressed, my ass. Some people (again, black and white) don't want to help themselves and that is when they think they are "owed" everything. "Feed me and my kids, give us government housing that we will destroy anyway, pay for schooling that we won't use and for hospital and medical bills we will rack up because we don't know how to take care of ourselves because we are uneducated and couldn't care less how to educate ourselves when there is someone else always there to wipe our asses."

Okay, I'm done for now

Yes, but you are suggesting that they should be helped before a non-minority person. I feel these programs should be available to any race, as long as the person does not abuse the privilege.

Ok, first I take serious offense to the fact that you believe that even if these people get an education, they won't use it. How do you know that??

Why are you all getting so defensive?? I don't understand it at all? Is it because someone is actually challanging the status quo and that might level the playing field?

All people are not born equal in our society and they won't be if we keep status quo. As a teacher, we know that not every student comes to us on equal grounds, so we can not treat all kids equal. We may have to do more for children to bring them up to the same level as other children and this is the same thing. When a young girl in the ghetto has the same oppertunity as a young girl in upper middle class, then I would be having a different tune, but this is just not the case.


Secondly, I don't believe your friend has absolutely no help what so ever. You never helped her out once? She is definately the exception! I had to search for help, but I got it and I am well on my way to being successful, BUT I had the wonderful support of my education program. It is not only helping people like me get a higher education, but I will then go out into the world and help my own people so that they can become successful too.

I saw that episode a few months ago, I guess it was repeated last night. That guy was crazy. No matter how nice the woman was to him, he treated her like dirt. I hope that the daughter grows up with a good attitude and not the "The white man owes me everything" attitude.

So are you saying you don't believe I should be receiving a free education because it's a program directed at only Metis people? Even though it is clearly only helping people, not harming.

Edited to add: Just because education is free, doesn't mean it is any more easier. I still do the same work as any other college of education student and I still work and I still have to take of my family. I still have to worry about paying rent and books etc. Just because it's "free" doesn't mean it's a hand out, I view it as a hand up.

I think the real issue is, that people don't want to see other people have something they didn't get (ie. free school) because that isn't something that would be available to them and because you actually believe you had to work harder to get what you have. Plain old jealousy. Well, I think that if white people had to live with the systemic racism and the history, then I would say they deserve a program to help them as well.

I saw that episode a few months back. It was interesting the first time. We taped it and have watched a few times since then. At first when watching it the guy makes some sence. After watching it a few times and really paying attention to what he says he comes across a s a complete nut job. He felt that because of slavery the blcak man should not have to do anything but be the masters of not just the white man but also their own women. He felt that all white people should become the slaves to black people. He also was saying that he was not racist againts white people but yet refused to listen to any thing the other spouce, who was white had to say. He did not want to have a real discussion. He also stated a few times that he hated the white man, but yet still not rasict. He felt what he had to say was the only right thing and nothing else.

It was sad really because he was s very smart and educated man but his attitude and opinions about people outside his race have kept him down and he is to color blind to see it.

No one is owed anything. If you do reaserch about slavery yo will find that is was actually the black ancestors in Africa selling their own people to the white man. They sold themselves out. Affermative action is not fair to anyone. My husband who is white has lost getting a job because someone of a different race, who was not as qualified was also applying. The other person got the job because quotas had to be filled. We just had to do the race survey at work so they could see what demographic to start hireing. We have a couple hispanic, black and Native American employies and they all were joking that thanks to Affermative action their jobs are safe but all us white folks need to be carfull.

Basicly it comes to this. Treat those how you want to be treated. We all bleed the same color and we all feel the same pain. We all have to work just as hard as the next guy to get ahead. In this country it is no longer a color thing it is now a money thing. It all depends on what your tax braket is. Basicly, if you are poor get off the Earth. We have the three classes. Rich poor and pooer. The middle class has all but disapeared.

I personally think though that if we were to set up free schooling based on something that ended 142 years ago, that would increase racism, especially from white people.

Besides I don't think it should start with free education. All you would wind up with is a bunch of still-angry people with degrees. I think it should start in the neighborhood. Stop the abuse that can go on at home, stop shooting people, stop doing/selling drugs, etc, etc, etc.

Besides again they're crying about retribution for something that happened WAY before their time and our time. What about the Japanese that we put through concentration camps during WWII? Why aren't they asking for retribution?

Actually here in Canada, the Japanese people did seak retribution and got an official appology, plus a finacial settlement.

I think that people don't want to accept that there are proven successes with offering education. What is the matter with having angry educated people??? because they can actually do something about what they are angry about?

They are here in Canada, at least. Or rather, I'm not sure that they're specifically asking for it, but they've been given an official policy and I think financial compensation -- but only to those who can definitively prove they were put in concentration camps.

I think there's a big difference between reparations and social services. Reparations are an acknowledgement of a wrong committed by one people against another people. I feel, personally, that if no one alive was either victim or "victor," reparations serve no real purpose; in the case of the Japanese-Canadians/Japanese-Americans, a great many are still alive and suffered through the concentration camps, and therefore reparations are in order. I can only speak for my own opinions, of course, and I come from a completely unoppressed, white, middle-class, somewhat priviledged background. I don't know what it's like to know my ancestors were once slaves. My land was never wrongfully taken by lying settlers. I don't experience prejudice on a daily basis. So, perhaps, my opinions in this matter are somewhat ... uneducated.

Social services, however, are not the same things, and as nice as it would be to think that reparation money is going towards social service projects, I'm not sure that it this is necessarily the case. I strongly believe that assistance should be offered to those who need it. What kind of people are we, that we can't even help those in our own country, our own province/state, our own city? I don't believe in the "free lunch" concept, but if you're a single mother trying to struggle your way through work and school and still support your kids, you deserve help. If you're willing, in any way, to try and improve your situation, I think the means should be given to you. If you just intent to waste the money away and not work for it, perhaps you're not as desperately off as you claim to be. (I say this as someone who has been on social service programs and knows how vital they are.)

I'll put it this way- Over 3/4 of my family on my father's side were murdered in concentration camps during WWII....you don't see me demanding $,an appology or anything else from those people responsible do you? No - because many of them are dead now- they did not personally do it to me.....i don't need any money from them, besides if they offered- i would NEVER take it from tainted hands. I do not think that people deserve $/free rides through life because of something that happened to their family members(many of them distant family members) years and years ago- not them personally. Colin's mom was from Vietnam- she had to flea her country for fear of her life when communism took over everything....do you see them asking for money or a free ride?? Absolutely not!I think people are just trying to milk the system for all it's worth. It's rediculious. If they'd stop concentrating sooo much on what "everyone owes them" and got out there and bettered themselves through work,education,etc..they'd see it's not a race issue...it's a "what am i willing to do for my future/myself" issue. As far as me "repaying" someone whom i never hurt, never had anything to do with for something that happened years ago- no way in you know where! I don't see anyone "repaying me" for the things that were done to my family- and i would not ask for it. If i want something- i am willing to work for it- to do my best, educate myself, and work hard for the things i want....I am responsible for my future, my future family, my income, my shelter, my food,etc.....nobody else. I think if people would recognize that about themselves they'd see a lot less "racial" issues and a lot more iniciative and progress.

I think it is rediculous, if people were to pay for everything that happened in the past, it would never end. White people enslaved white people and black people enslaved black people well before white people took black slaves on. I remember once reading a book that recounted stories of slavery, one of those was a story about a cargo ship. The black slaves were on shore throwing the cargo onto the boat where the Irish slaves had to catch it and stack it. Many of the Irish slaves were knocked overboard or crushed by the cargo crates - the owner of the boat justified this by saying that black slaves were worth more than 'paddys' - does this mean I am entitled to money and better education because Irish people were enslaved?

I think that all people who need help should be able to get it, but I disagree with the fact that they think they should not have to prove why they need it. I know so many people who claim that they are single parents and get handouts from the government, yet have their BF living with them, registered for taxes etc at another address working full time and supporting them. These are the kinds of people that others are mentioning who take the money but do not use it for the advantage like they are supposed to.

As far as the course just for Metis people, while you say it is only helping and not harming people, other non Metis people in your area may have a different opinion and ask why that money from wherever not be spent on improving education for all in your area - it can always be looked at from different angles depending on which one suits the argument.

I am not saying that the course shouldn't exist, just that there will always be people who think they are owed something, and like someone said above, separating education by race can lead to more racism when people hear that the govt gave $2 million to blah blah course when there are also others who need help who are not in 'target areas'.

Yes there are people like that but that is why programs like mine have a process and there are requirements. It's not a free for all like I said. In order to get a Metis card, you must provide a proven family tree that goes back at least 5 generations which had a least one family member from the Red River Colony (which to me is a whole different debate). From there, you have to apply. There is only enough money and space for 18 people per year. My program is not unique. My program is Saskatchewan Urban Native People's Education Program, then there is Itep (Indian Teacher Education Program) and Nortep (Nothern Teachers Education Program) and programs for LPNs and Nursing so far. These programs are highly successful and there is much evidence.


I understand what you are saying, but that is people's ignorance. I experience that within my college. Mainstream thinks we have easier classes and are made we get 4 years of tution payed for, but that is pure jealousy and ignorance, but you know what, it is helping within our community. I have yet to meet any Metis person who has something negative to say about SUNTEP. We have more experiences and more practical training than mainstream and we get better reviews from out co-operating teachers. We have more of a burden too, though, because when we are finished, we know it is our responsibility to go out into our communities and try our best to ensure that we help the drop out rates decrease. We definately give back to our community in return for help getting a higher education.

I do feel that I should recieve a cultural education that is unbiased by the eurocentric history, that I should be able to learn in my ancestors native tounge and not in english and be taught by a Native teacher. There are such schools in Saskatchewan.