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Global Warming just a myth? Or for real?

post #1 of 24
Thread Starter 
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17997788/site/newsweek/
post #2 of 24
I'm not even going to bother going to that link. If you lived in Australia, you'd know it was for real. Things are out of control here, just out of control.

It frightens me because I see it happening. We know it's real. Even if I had any doubt, which I don't, the risks and repercussions if we all went about our life as though nothing was changing, and then we all found out that it is real and we didn't do anything about it, and then it was too late, are enough to make me act, and think that everybody else should too.

There's a powerful question to naysayers of global warming. That question is, `What if you're wrong?'. The implications of that are too horrible to contemplate.
post #3 of 24
In all honesty, Global Warming COULD, and I stress COULD be just part of a cycle. I remember back in elementary school they were talking about the next ice age coming. I remember seeing models that said everyone would be underwater by 2000, well my backyard is not the lake... yet. BUT The extremes we have been seeing in weather patterens, suggest to me at least, we (humans) are not helping things at all. There is no doubt that we need to seriously change the way we do things. If it is just a cycle we are speading it up like crazy. Something MUST change and do so VERY soon!!!
post #4 of 24
Well, being that I'm a serious liberal, I'd probably go with the liberal answer on most things. Now, I'm pretty into energy conservation, as much for the cost effectiveness as for the environment, but I do try to be environmentally concious... *anyway*...

I do think that there is an issue with global warming, but.. I think that if people just start being a little more concious.. we'll be fine. They did do a study a while back.. and the hole in the ozone was repairing itself. So if everyone just cut back, people as a whole could still be a little environmentally unfriendly and I think we'd be okay. I think, however, if we continue to deplete the ozone faster than it can heal itself, we're all in a boatload of crap.

It makes sense, though. Consider... how many winters do you guys remember from when you were younger that you had tons of snow days, lots of winter storms.. the summers were never this ungodly hot.. the rivers/streams/water level never got this incredibly low in the summers..it's nothing like it used to be. I feel it maybe a little more than most because I tend to live in a "moderate" climate. We're not getting blasted with winter storms here as a regular thing, unlike the farther northern states.. but it's definetely a noticeable difference for this area.
post #5 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by CatsAreBetter View Post
I do think that there is an issue with global warming, but.. I think that if people just start being a little more concious.. we'll be fine. They did do a study a while back.. and the hole in the ozone was repairing itself.


Proves that we did cause the problem, and we can fix it. That in itself would be enough for me without all of the other overwhelming, supporting evidence. Even if it's a natural cycle and I'm not disputing that may well be part of it, it's not natural in the least for it to be happening this quickly.

In Australia, we are still in the midst of a massive drought. Farmers are in despair. One of our biggest cities, Melbourne, is in stage 4 water restrictions and everything is dying - NO sprinklers, NO watering, not even in the parks and gardens. The botanical gardens are dying. Everywhere you go in Melbourne it's brown. If you water your garden you can be arrested. I am deadly serious. In Perth, where I live, it's not at that stage yet, but you can feel it everywhere you go, we are on stage 2 restrictions. We are halfway through Autumn and we have temperatures STILL that would be more suited to the middle of summer. The weather is forecasting one morning of rain for the next month. One morning!

People are leaving Perth. Actually moving to a different state because they are getting sick of the constant heat. And the very odd occasion when it rains, it doesn't just rain, it's stormy, blowy - wild.

There are no seasons anymore. There is summer and winter. Our summers are now extremely humid, something new, and our winters freezing. Freezing. In Perth! That never used to happen.

The change is real, it is happening, it is the most frightening thing that has occurred in my lifetime. Other parts of the world may not be seeing it as clearly as it can be seen here, and that would make people more complacent, but again, no matter what the primary cause, it's true and there's no denying it.
post #6 of 24
Thread Starter 
I was taught we are right now coming out of a mini ice age.
post #7 of 24
Sarah, the debate in this thread is based upon a specific argument as written in an article, which you won't even look at. It's from Newsweek, hosted on MSNBC - hardly a right-wing controlled ideologue publication.

I do think that it's cycles. We may be exaggerating the cycles, and regardless it won't hurt and will help things (regardless of global warming) if we ALL do our parts to cut down on waste and pollution.

I'm sorry that the climate sucks in Australia. Truly, I am. But I can't say the same for here. We have been in a cycle of draught, for many years. Water restrictions were the norm for the past 6-8 years (don't own my own yard, nor do we wash our cars outside of a "recycling" car-wash). Fire danger, though not nearly the same as the danger in the Outback, has been high, and many thousands of acres of forest land has been lost. However, in the past couple of years, we have been making great strides to replenish the water levels. In fact, the reservoir that supplies Denver water is so full right now that they will have to start releasing water from it.

And as for warming? HA! Not this year! We had snow 6 or 7 weeks in a row here, which is almost unheard of. March was warmer than usual, but we are certainly making up for it now in April with temps ranging from "average" to about 20 degrees below average. And snow all last weekend, and snow forecast again for this Friday. Global warming? Not around here, it's not!
post #8 of 24
The article argues that the warming trends are not, maybe, as catastrophic as they've been made out to be.

Is ANYTHING in the media portrayed, ever, as less catastrophic, less disastrous, less impactful, than it really is?

I agree, to some extent, that the world won't end tommorow. I agree also that some global warming may be attributable to other factors.

I just don't get why it matters to anybody. The article opens saying that humans are contributing in some way to an effect that is detrimental to the earth, and our only home. Beyond that it's just splitting hairs.

The attitude that causes things like the Aral Sea basin should be worrisome, and that's the same attitude that tries to rationalize away global warming. It's dangerous.

Our pollution levels and other exploitations of the earth, to me, are like numerous papercuts that won't stop bleeding, not a giant hemorrhaging wound. No, not a singlular thing we do or don't do is going to ruin everything permanently, but the collective effect of our lifestyles is destroying our planet. Slowly, almost so slow it's imperceptible... but if things continue in the direction they are (that is, exploit now, let our kids worry about the damage) it will not end well for anyone.

Anyway, there are significant observed effects on human health such as asthma and cancer occurence, the huge impact on us by our dependence on foreign oil, a general culture of waste a lot and want even more...
post #9 of 24
But climate change isn't just about global warming - it's about change. That includes cold weather and unusual cold snaps, storms, snows etc.

I know it was quite one-eyed of me not to look at that link, but it's just because I'm just so tired of hearing all the naysaying that goes on with this problem. Nothing to do with right- or left-wing, who wrote it, who said it. It's real, it's happening, I just feel that constant argument about it is redundant and pointless. No amount of arguing can negate what is actually happening before our very eyes. I'm being just as close-minded on my part as the naysayers are on theirs, and I'm wrong to do that, I know. But it's just so tiring to talk about it all the time! (Despite the fact that I do continue to get into these debates!)

And I think that's wonderful about your water levels. And what you say just supports my argument - look what humans can do to help if we really want to.
post #10 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by eburgess View Post
In all honesty, Global Warming COULD, and I stress COULD be just part of a cycle.
I'll agree with that. I was watching An Inconvenient Truth (I didn't finish the whole thing) and the entire time I was yelling at the TV that if you look at the patterns, it goes up and down... so yes, we're at a very high level right now (and I won't argue that it is because of what we're doing) but at the same time, if in the past it goes up and down then who's not to say it won't go down... instead of the levels going straight up like Al Gore was saying.

On that note, I haven't finished watching the movie and I don't pretend to understand much about Global Warming. I will say that if anything, we just can't predict much. I mean, weren't we told that 2006 would be a big year for hurricanes? And that didn't come true...
post #11 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinkdaisy226 View Post
I will say that if anything, we just can't predict much. I mean, weren't we told that 2006 would be a big year for hurricanes? And that didn't come true...
Yeah, once they can accurately predict what the weather will do tomorrow, let along next week, I might have more faith in them being able to predict the long term. Yes, they have models, but just like with statistics, you can create models to say just about whatever you want them to say. And the models are only as good as the information put into them. I mean, it wasn't all that long ago that the models said we were entering a new ice age, and that didn't happen.

Is there a climate change happening? Yes, without a doubt. But is this an irreversable change, or part of a cycle? That part we just don't know, because I have yet to meet any actual psychics who go into meteorology.
post #12 of 24
I think what is almost more important than all the talk about global warming is the reality of the rapid depletion/consumption of all natural resources as the earth's population continues to expand exponentially.

Global warming is going to matter a whole heck of a lot less to the general public once there is no more fresh water to drink, and there are no more rainforests providing oxygen to the planet, and all the oil has been drilled dry...although, it is true that current warming trends are killing off plankton in alarming numbers, and as they are the bottom of the food chain, once that base is killed off there will be an extremely rapid dying off of most sealife and the oceans will become stagnant and lifeless, and animals and humans won't be far behind once that occurs.

But hey - let's just pretend that it's all a myth, all of it, and keep consuming at the rates we are consuming. We won't have to worry about it anyway, because we'll all be safely dead by the time our decendants have to face the results of our actions.

The earth, Gaia, doesn't really care - she'll continue to go through her warming and cooling cycles without us pesky humans dumping our garbage all over her. She'll keep on doing what she has been doing for millennia, and she will survive - at least until our star explodes and takes her with it in the supernova.

It really is all relative, isn't it?
post #13 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Is ANYTHING in the media portrayed, ever, as less catastrophic, less disastrous, less impactful, than it really is?
Well, that sort of depends on what topic and which side of the political scale the writer falls on.. If you compare an article on ...well, pick a topic.. global warming, stem cell research, abortion, the war, the war on terror.. two articles about the same thing, one written by a liberal and one written by a conservative.. they'll be a completely different outlook, and one will probably pish posh it and understate it and one will probably overstate it. I think we're probably looking at two extremes.

But, anyway, my thoughts on the global warming issue and the way that the weather is taking on extremes.. imo, nature has a way of balancing out. It's my belief, although, probably not documented in any way, that if you have extreme cold and wet in one place on earth, there would be another place with extreme draught and heat. If things are completely out of balance, that makes sense that there's some sort of cause and effect. It would seem (to me) that you'd see the normal balance if things were operating as they should.

BTW, a single monitor emits about 900 and some pounds of toxins into the atmosphere in one year if they are never turned off. So.. one thing we can all do to cut down on global warming is turn your monitor off when you walk away from the computer.
post #14 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
I think what is almost more important than all the talk about global warming is the reality of the rapid depletion/consumption of all natural resources as the earth's population continues to expand exponentially.

Global warming is going to matter a whole heck of a lot less to the general public once there is no more fresh water to drink, and there are no more rainforests providing oxygen to the planet, and all the oil has been drilled dry...although, it is true that current warming trends are killing off plankton in alarming numbers, and as they are the bottom of the food chain, once that base is killed off there will be an extremely rapid dying off of most sealife and the oceans will become stagnant and lifeless, and animals and humans won't be far behind once that occurs.

But hey - let's just pretend that it's all a myth, all of it, and keep consuming at the rates we are consuming. We won't have to worry about it anyway, because we'll all be safely dead by the time our decendants have to face the results of our actions.

The earth, Gaia, doesn't really care - she'll continue to go through her warming and cooling cycles without us pesky humans dumping our garbage all over her. She'll keep on doing what she has been doing for millennia, and she will survive - at least until our star explodes and takes her with it in the supernova.

It really is all relative, isn't it?


We humans, we're so arrogant. We think that we are the be-all and end-all of life and everything in it. In reality we're a speck on the surface of this gargantuan universe - and so is Earth itself, for that matter.

We can keep on exploiting and wasting and dumping on and destroying this beautiful planet of ours and saying that nothing we do has any impact, and the fact is, the earth will survive and we won't. Weather patterns will change to the point where people just get killed off by the thousands on a regular basis. Disease will flourish, we'll starve to death or die because we have no water left to drink. There'll be no fossil fuels and no natural resources. And then humanity, and homo sapiens, will become extinct.

And slowly, Earth will repair herself, the animals that survived will proliferate, and the cycle of life will start again. But will that cycle include humans again? Maybe. Maybe not. But unlike any other species on earth, if humans expire, we'll have done it to ourselves. Make no mistake about that.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not programmed to contribute to my own demise. We have to do what we can, our very survival depends upon it.
post #15 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post


We humans, we're so arrogant. We think that we are the be-all and end-all of life and everything in it. In reality we're a speck on the surface of this gargantuan universe - and so is Earth itself, for that matter.

We can keep on exploiting and wasting and dumping on and destroying this beautiful planet of ours and saying that nothing we do has any impact, and the fact is, the earth will survive and we won't. Weather patterns will change to the point where people just get killed off by the thousands on a regular basis. Disease will flourish, we'll starve to death or die because we have no water left to drink. There'll be no fossil fuels and no natural resources. And then humanity, and homo sapiens, will become extinct.

And slowly, Earth will repair herself, the animals that survived will proliferate, and the cycle of life will start again. But will that cycle include humans again? Maybe. Maybe not. But unlike any other species on earth, if humans expire, we'll have done it to ourselves. Make no mistake about that.

I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not programmed to contribute to my own demise. We have to do what we can, our very survival depends upon it.
True, that. Unfortunately while we're perpetuating our own death, we're also driving other species into oblivion as well. Or, doing things like overpopulating particular species because as a whole, humans are irresponsible.
post #16 of 24
I think its real. I think it is weird how people can even thing that we are not hurting our planet. Most poople just think it is millions of years away before we detroy the earth.

The earth will heal it self but after we are all gone.
post #17 of 24
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
The article argues that the warming trends are not, maybe, as catastrophic as they've been made out to be.

Is ANYTHING in the media portrayed, ever, as less catastrophic, less disastrous, less impactful, than it really is?

I agree, to some extent, that the world won't end tommorow. I agree also that some global warming may be attributable to other factors.

I just don't get why it matters to anybody. The article opens saying that humans are contributing in some way to an effect that is detrimental to the earth, and our only home. Beyond that it's just splitting hairs.

The attitude that causes things like the Aral Sea basin should be worrisome, and that's the same attitude that tries to rationalize away global warming. It's dangerous.

Our pollution levels and other exploitations of the earth, to me, are like numerous papercuts that won't stop bleeding, not a giant hemorrhaging wound. No, not a singlular thing we do or don't do is going to ruin everything permanently, but the collective effect of our lifestyles is destroying our planet. Slowly, almost so slow it's imperceptible... but if things continue in the direction they are (that is, exploit now, let our kids worry about the damage) it will not end well for anyone.

Anyway, there are significant observed effects on human health such as asthma and cancer occurence, the huge impact on us by our dependence on foreign oil, a general culture of waste a lot and want even more...
Great post, I totally agree.
post #18 of 24
I think its a factor due to climate change, but I'm more apt to think that we're heading into a warming trend.

Global warming, IMO, is more or less a small factor and not to the degree that we think it is.

Besides, how do we know that what we're doing to make things "greener" isn't harming Mother Earth in another way? It could take 20 years to figure out that using pesticides was better for the planet then a bunch of manure.
???? (just example purposes, I don't really believe that)
post #19 of 24
So, you don't think we should change or do anything? I think you have a good point and actually there are some current examples to illustrate your point, but what do we do? Nothing?
post #20 of 24
No I'm not saying we don't do anything...I guess I'm more or less thinking lets revert back to older times...the old horse and buggy instead of a car? Or perhaps stick with the solar power cars and people only travel during the day time.

Heck half the stuff that makes up your computer is considered harmful to the environment when trashed. Yet we keep having to trash our old computers to "keep up" with the current technology means and standards.

Sorry...I'm not a scientist so I don't have solutions...only ideas.
post #21 of 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
No I'm not saying we don't do anything...I guess I'm more or less thinking lets revert back to older times...the old horse and buggy instead of a car? Or perhaps stick with the solar power cars and people only travel during the day time.

Heck half the stuff that makes up your computer is considered harmful to the environment when trashed. Yet we keep having to trash our old computers to "keep up" with the current technology means and standards.

Sorry...I'm not a scientist so I don't have solutions...only ideas.
You're right. Cell phones, computers, tvs, pretty much all electronics should *never* just be thrown away (but most people don't even know that). They usually have some sort of dump.. at least here they do, that's how I learned about it actually.. where you take the electronics and then they're recycled for parts because the parts can be reused instead of continually manufactured new.
We need to do something in general.

BTW, Earth Day is Aprill 22nd.
post #22 of 24
Quote:
Krazycatlover: I think it is weird how people can even thing that we are not hurting our planet.
Global warming and hurting the planet are two separate issues. Global warming gets all the headlines and heated debates. Hurting the planet by using non renewable resources can't be debated as easily, so it isn't. People want to continue to live as always with blinders on and being oblivious to all that happens around them. They want to believe that there will be no water shortages, gas shortages etc. Believing that global warming is bad science and therefore not real, gives them the proof they want. If global warming is not real, than probably all the rest is made up too is the next argument. This is a nice excuse for not changing any one's life or lifestyle.
"Less is more" just doesn't sell, ask the advertisers.
post #23 of 24
I read that entire article and found it very misleading and avoiding.
Here is another link sponsored by the US EPA
http://www.epa.gov/climatechange/basicinfo.html
post #24 of 24
Quote:
Indeed, meteorological theory holds that, outside the tropics, weather in a warming world should be less variable, which might be a good thing
This is quoted from the link : http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17997788/site/newsweek/ given in the start of the thread.

The quick throw away reference to "outside the tropics" is what troubles me. The tropics being referred to in the paragraph above are the African countries having massive droughts. See this link:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0524100859.htm

The author of this article is giving us a feel good spin to global warming at the price of millions of lives in Africa.

~Rhonda
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