What is wrong with people??? Stupid customers...

ckatz

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Originally Posted by icklemiss21

You pay it either way, whether you pay it to the restaurant or the waitress (they do it that way in the UK)

While I said tipping was optional, I also said I always tip, but I have been known to leave a penny tip for extremely bad service too.
OMG -a penny!!! This is why when I quit my last waitress job, I threw out those clothes and vowed to starve to death rather than ever do that job again.

That was over 30 yrs ago and this still makes my blood boil. So I'm leaving this discussion before I lost my temper and use language that will get me kicked off this site.
 

icklemiss21

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He spilt a drink on me, didn't apologise, said he would get me some napkins to clean it up and didn't come back for 10 mins until I asked another waitress who gave me some saying he was on his smoke break.
The food was burnt and the order was wrong - he was very lucky I didn't make a complaint
 
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godiva

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Interesting... I don't understand how that could happen. If you know your tip is contingent on your service, why would you slack? Der....
It seems fool-proof to me, unless you work at a place so incredibly expensive that a 5% tip is still $10.

I know I have to work hard for my tip, but I expect the patron to be fair and follow society's expectations if I do work well. Does that make sense? If I mess up, I don't get upset about a 5% tip (although the things people claim you did wrong are just insane sometimes).

Let's just say that servers are an interesting group of people... transient types that can't hold down "serious" jobs (if they are older, there are also a lot of young single moms and college students). Many of my coworkers would do as little as possible to get by if they were guaranteed a check. If I knew I were getting $8/hr, I would take a fricking pee break. But because I work on tips and that is contingent on my service, I can't afford to take that long out of my shift to go potty. I have a complicated uniform and we are a busy place... so I often work while I have to pee because I don't want to miss anything my tables might need. That's as far as I would take it, but I know many that would take it as far as they could until the manager said something to them.

Perhaps the cultural expectations are much stronger here than in Canada. As well they should be... $2.43 and hour only makes it right!
I guess it all depends on which system you came from working...
 

zissou'smom

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Originally Posted by Natalie_ca

If your employer is paying you less than minimum wage, that's against the law. Minimum wage rates are in place for a reason.

When I go to a restaurant, I agree to pay the prices on the menu, nothing more. If I want to add in a tip, that's entirely up to me. In fact I resent the fact that people expect that I tip, and predetermine how much I should tip based on my bill. I tip what I want to tip, and nothing more. Sometimes it's a small amount, other times if I have the extra money I tip more. But it's up to me and no one else what I do with my money.

Again, I'm sorry that Godiva had a bad day, but instead of taking it out on innocent people, the customer, she should be placing the blame on her employer who is breaking the law by not paying her standard minimum wage. It's up to her employer to pay her her salary. To expect the customer to make up shortfalls in an employees wages is inappropriate and as I said, against the law.
This argument has been had at least twice that I remember... and I think last time it was someone else from Canada who had the same opinion as you. In Ohio, waitresses make 2.13 an hour (at least until this year, don't know if it's changed). And your employer reports your tips as earnings. Basically, your wages go to taxes and your tips are all you actually take home. Her employer isn't breaking the law, as other people have stated. That is the law. Tipping, in other words, is written into our wage laws here.

Also, she never said and nobody but you implied that she took it out on anybody. She started this thread to vent, not be told she should be thankful to be treated like dirt because some other people are worse off than her.
 

icklemiss21

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I think the point has already been made to Natalie_ca and there are differences between laws that people may not be aware of, when someone says they are paid below the minimum wage, we have a minimum server wage here so to us it does sound like her boss is breaking the law by doing so (although I have friends in the US who are servers so know different but that doesn't mean everyone does)

Personally, I tip 20% + and get great service at the places I go to eat. I also refuse to blame a waitress for the kitchen messing up unless they don't try to rectify it in which case it does become their job and so their tip.

You know you have to work for it, which is why you work hard and therefore, you realise that tipping is based on good service and is not mandatory but expected - some people dont. They just expect it regardless of the service. I once seen a waitress (who was also serving us and not doing a great job of it but wasn't awful) chase after some customers and throw the tip at them because she thought it wasn't enough... that is how it has become expected in Canada (where servers get $7 compared to $8 for regular min wage) and the reason Natalie and I have opinions like we do.
 
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godiva

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Originally Posted by ckatz

OMG -a penny!!! This is why when I quit my last waitress job, I threw out those clothes and vowed to starve to death rather than ever do that job again.

That was over 30 yrs ago and this still makes my blood boil. So I'm leaving this discussion before I lost my temper and use language that will get me kicked off this site.
If I ever get a penny tip and I don't know why, I will hunt down the table and ask them what I did wrong. It hasn't happened yet, but I haven gotten piles of change.... I almost quit over too!

I was working a lunch shift, which means a lot of kids and small checks. This table had a 12 year old boy. The mothers were doing a play date thing, obviously wealthy and thinking they were better than everybody. (D&B handbags, large diamond rings... nice outfits, designer clothes on the kids) The 12 year old started ordering me around. I got him what he asked. He was rude and didn't say thank you. Oh well, I can deal with that... just shake it off on the smoke break. But he started asking for strange stuff... like extra plates, water with oranges and olives in it. I stopped and looked at who I presumed was his mom and said, "Is he serious?" She says, "Yes. Please get it for him." One of the other moms said, "Oh, come on..." But I was already on my way, but because I heard the "come on" I sneaked around the corner to eavesdrop. Apparently, that mom had been telling her son to order me around, AND get the strange stuff just for kicks.

After I came back, and after the kid didn't say "thank you," I said "You're supposed to say thank you" in my most sickeningly sweet voice. He said, "Can I have one more thing?" I said, "No. I have other tables to take care of and I think I know what is happening here" and gave his mom a dirty look.
They left me a pile of change worth about $0.40. I don't care. It felt good to stand up for myself... too often as a waitress (and as most waitresses do), I let people walk all over me.
 

natalie_ca

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Originally Posted by Godiva

I think you just have a thing with tipping... I doubt you'd complain if your food got more expensive, but you didn't have to CHOOSE to give a particular person your money.
I worked in the hospitality industry for many years as a waitress in a restaurant, a cocktail waitress and even a bartender. I know what type of work it is and I know how hard it can be to be rushing around and trying to keep orders straight and all the while being upbeat and cheerful while your back and your feet are killing you.

I also know that I never went into my shifts expecting tips. If a customer left me a tip, no matter what amount, I was grateful, but I never expected anyone to leave a tip. To me it was just a bonus if they did.

Granted you didn't take it out on the customer themselves at the restaurant, but your comments here are placing the blame squarely on their shoulders. Like I said, I'm sorry you had a shift that didn't meet your expectations, but that's hardly the customers fault.
 
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godiva

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Originally Posted by icklemiss21

I think the point has already been made to Natalie_ca and there are differences between laws that people may not be aware of, when someone says they are paid below the minimum wage, we have a minimum server wage here so to us it does sound like her boss is breaking the law by doing so (although I have friends in the US who are servers so know different but that doesn't mean everyone does)

Personally, I tip 20% + and get great service at the places I go to eat. I also refuse to blame a waitress for the kitchen messing up unless they don't try to rectify it in which case it does become their job and so their tip.

You know you have to work for it, which is why you work hard and therefore, you realise that tipping is based on good service and is not mandatory but expected - some people dont. They just expect it regardless of the service. I once seen a waitress (who was also serving us and not doing a great job of it but wasn't awful) chase after some customers and throw the tip at them because she thought it wasn't enough... that is how it has become expected in Canada (where servers get $7 compared to $8 for regular min wage) and the reason Natalie and I have opinions like we do.
Eesh! No wonder.

I've witnessed that scene a few times before, though... it's bound to happen when one relies on tips to eat, though.
I think it would be a problem for the restaurant culture if we suddenly made near minimum wage... because then servers would expect a tip just because that's the way it was...

Did you know how much that tip was? Maybe something set her off. I've had people ask for EVERYTHING extra, and then leave a very sub-par tip. If people ask for to-go fresh bread, salad, or drinks nowadays, I've learned to say "If you treat me right. I'm supposed to charge you for that stuff." It works. I think customers try to get away with stuff too.

You have to remember that we Americans are much less civilized.
Just kidding. But really, I think service and retail people in the US get treated worse than those in most other countries. Common decency and manners are lost on a lot of people here.
 
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godiva

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Originally Posted by Natalie_ca

I worked in the hospitality industry for many years as a waitress in a restaurant, a cocktail waitress and even a bartender. I know what type of work it is and I know how hard it can be to be rushing around and trying to keep orders straight and all the while being upbeat and cheerful while your back and your feet are killing you.

I also know that I never went into my shifts expecting tips. If a customer left me a tip, no matter what amount, I was grateful, but I never expected anyone to leave a tip. To me it was just a bonus if they did.

Granted you didn't take it out on the customer themselves at the restaurant, but your comments here are placing the blame squarely on their shoulders. Like I said, I'm sorry you had a shift that didn't meet your expectations, but that's hardly the customers fault.
Um... yeah it is the customer's fault! They didn't tip!
That's the whole point!

I'm not greedy, and I'm not full of a feeling of entitlement. But I know what fair and good service is, and I know I gave it, and I know the other end of our little social contract wasn't held up while I did my part (and more). Just because it's not a law to tip doesn't mean it isn't the right thing to do.

Anyway, we agree to disagree... sorry for ranting. Usually I get this done before I come home with the other servers... but today was different. It was a holiday, and I can't imagine people being cheap and stingy on today of all days. Ugh. In the words of Mary-Kate and Ashley Olsen, "How RUDE!"
 

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One time I had a table of drunk kids come in and order 70$ worth of food... and then say "we can't afford a tip, can we tip you in weed instead?" I said no (obviously, for a number of reasons) so I got as a tip a napkin covered in obscenities about me. *sigh*

I wouldn't have served the woman who made her kid ask for weird stuff. She doesn't deserve to be out in public if she's gonna make her kid act out her middle-school antics for her. Some people just have obviously never had a real job and so act like everyone who does is their slave. Makes me crazy!

I totally agree about retail/food service people being treated like dirt. I've been working for 8 years now and only once had a job that wasn't one of those two. The only time I got treated worse was doing outcall phone solicitations... you really get treated like dog poop on a shoe doing that! I only lasted a week I got cussed at so many times.
 
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godiva

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Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom

One time I had a table of drunk kids come in and order 70$ worth of food... and then say "we can't afford a tip, can we tip you in weed instead?" I said no (obviously, for a number of reasons) so I got as a tip a napkin covered in obscenities about me. *sigh*

I wouldn't have served the woman who made her kid ask for weird stuff. She doesn't deserve to be out in public if she's gonna make her kid act out her middle-school antics for her. Some people just have obviously never had a real job and so act like everyone who does is their slave. Makes me crazy!

I totally agree about retail/food service people being treated like dirt. I've been working for 8 years now and only once had a job that wasn't one of those two. The only time I got treated worse was doing outcall phone solicitations... you really get treated like dog poop on a shoe doing that! I only lasted a week I got cussed at so many times.
I've had that happen too! Sort of.....


I could never work at a call center. Without being face to face with someone, I have a tendency to go off.
Just look at this thread.
 

icklemiss21

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Originally Posted by Godiva

Did you know how much that tip was? Maybe something set her off. I've had people ask for EVERYTHING extra, and then leave a very sub-par tip.
It was around 10% and they gave it to the manager asking if it was shared amongst busboys, dishwashers etc (which is the norm here), they were sitting right by us and she didn't seem too interested in serving either of us. I know they complained to the manager about something because they called him over (but that may have been something to do with the kitchen etc too).

I know it was coins - they didn't leave paper money (but our $1 and $2 are coins not notes) and they hit off another customers car in the parking lot!
 
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godiva

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She still got 10%? Yeah, seems a little odd to me.


But, if she got just change, who knows what happened... there are so many factors going into how things pan out, you know? If it's a busy restaurant, sometimes it takes so long to wait in line in the kitchen for this or that, or find this or that because it's out of stock out front, that one can get caught up for quite a while. That's happened to me before, and when that happens, I can't get refills or other things on time. Sometimes the manager demands that everyone run food, no matter what state of affairs your tables are in. (Running food can take a while because they people treat you as their waitress while they are there). It's part of the job... which is why it helps when customers are understanding.
 

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Wow, I had no idea that waitresses make so little!!!! I'd be fuming too with such crappy tips!

In Australia, the waiters and waitresses get a decent wage, and so tipping just doesn't happen - if you're incredibly impressed with the service, you can, but it's certainly not expected.

Here in the US, we always leave 15%, more if the service was extra good.

We left $1 once when the service was INCREDIBLY poor. I can't remember what happened now, but the waiter was absolutely useless, got everything wrong, forgot about us, and was downright rude. We walked out never to eat there again. If I go out for a meal, I expect reasonable service. I don't care if I don't get extra special service, I just want what I order in a reasonable time.
 
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godiva

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Originally Posted by sarahp

Wow, I had no idea that waitresses make so little!!!! I'd be fuming too with such crappy tips!

In Australia, the waiters and waitresses get a decent wage, and so tipping just doesn't happen - if you're incredibly impressed with the service, you can, but it's certainly not expected.

Here in the US, we always leave 15%, more if the service was extra good.

We left $1 once when the service was INCREDIBLY poor. I can't remember what happened now, but the waiter was absolutely useless, got everything wrong, forgot about us, and was downright rude. We walked out never to eat there again. If I go out for a meal, I expect reasonable service. I don't care if I don't get extra special service, I just want what I order in a reasonable time.
Forgot about a table... wow! That must have been either one incredibly busy or really stupid/bad server. I don't care how busy I am though, I never forget I have a table... that just seems so impossible to do! All of what you said sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
 

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Forgive me if someone else brought this up and I missed it -- but I believe servers in America are taxed as if they'd received seven or eight percent tips from all their tables -- whether they actually did or not!

Don't get me started on why this is the way it's done -- I'll rant for hours about the rightwing abuse of labor in an excessively capitalist society -- but for better or worse, this is how it is in America. And it's true that an apparent majority of customers either don't know or don't care about the fact that their server is forced by the system to depend almost entirely on them for an income. So not only do they undertip, they also waste the server's precious time by demanding separate checks for a table of nine, and they sit and occupy the table long after the meal is over, keeping the server from getting any new customers in.

Two good friends of mine work at a restaurant. Both are lovely people, very warm and friendly, great at their jobs, and extremely hardworking -- and they work for a very popular upscale restaurant in a city where most of the population is upper-upper-upper middle class. But many days, they will work for five or six hours and take home less than $20. They have to work those "loser" shifts in order to keep the job, and they just hope to make up the difference on Friday and Saturday nights.

Also, please consider that in most restaurants, servers can't even anticipate what hours they'll be working with any accuracy. They get called in on their days off (fired if they refuse), and they get cut loose halfway through a day if there's not enough business, so they don't even get the paltry two-bucks-and-change per hour they can count on!

On top of all this, they have to stand there and take it when a customer blames them for the kitchen's failures, and it's their tip that gets reduced for those failures, too. And they don't dare ask the kitchen to do something over, or they get a reputation as a troublemaker and lose the job, or at least lose the plum shifts.

And in some places, they're forced to throw their tips into a pool that's divided equally among the staff -- a system that rewards the weak servers and penalizes the best ones.

So please... when you hear someone rant about how hard it is to make a living as a server, bear all these things in mind and have a heart. It's a hard job with very little security; it doesn't pay well except in the ritziest places; and for some reason, most people seem to think it's all right to treat servers with no respect whatsoever.

Have you hugged your waitress today?
 
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godiva

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Originally Posted by CarolPetunia

Forgive me if someone else brought this up and I missed it -- but I believe servers in America are taxed as if they'd received seven or eight percent tips from all their tables -- whether they actually did or not!

Don't get me started on why this is the way it's done -- I'll rant for hours about the rightwing abuse of labor in an excessively capitalist society -- but for better or worse, this is how it is in America. And it's true that an apparent majority of customers either don't know or don't care about the fact that their server is forced by the system to depend almost entirely on them for an income. So not only do they undertip, they also waste the server's precious time by demanding separate checks for a table of nine, and they sit and occupy the table long after the meal is over, keeping the server from getting any new customers in.

Two good friends of mine work at a restaurant. Both are lovely people, very warm and friendly, great at their jobs, and extremely hardworking -- and they work for a very popular upscale restaurant in a city where most of the population is upper-upper-upper middle class. But many days, they will work for five or six hours and take home less than $20. They have to work those "loser" shifts in order to keep the job, and they just hope to make up the difference on Friday and Saturday nights.

Also, please consider that in most restaurants, servers can't even anticipate what hours they'll be working with any accuracy. They get called in on their days off (fired if they refuse), and they get cut loose halfway through a day if there's not enough business, so they don't even get the paltry two-bucks-and-change per hour they can count on!

On top of all this, they have to stand there and take it when a customer blames them for the kitchen's failures, and it's their tip that gets reduced for those failures, too. And they don't dare ask the kitchen to do something over, or they get a reputation as a troublemaker and lose the job, or at least lose the plum shifts.

And in some places, they're forced to throw their tips into a pool that's divided equally among the staff -- a system that rewards the weak servers and penalizes the best ones.

So please... when you hear someone rant about how hard it is to make a living as a server, bear all these things in mind and have a heart. It's a hard job with very little security; it doesn't pay well except in the ritziest places; and for some reason, most people seem to think it's all right to treat servers with no respect whatsoever.

Have you hugged your waitress today?
Wow... I never realized it. I guess that's true... I legally have to report 10% of my sales whether or not I received that much in tips. The majority of days, my sales are at just about 10%, but only a slight majority. It really stinks. Now I'm kind of mad.
I need to finish school.
 
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godiva

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Just wanted to add... this is why you should tip waitresses in cash, not debit or credit cards.
 

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I personally like the way it was done in Germany better. People were paid a better wage and tipping wasn't done. I have always tipped 20% unless service was really bad. When I am by myself I usually tip a little more than that because I figure I am occuping one of the tables with a smaller order than two people would have.
 
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godiva

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Originally Posted by Denice

I personally like the way it was done in Germany better. People were paid a better wage and tipping wasn't done. I have always tipped 20% unless service was really bad. When I am by myself I usually tip a little more than that because I figure I am occuping one of the tables with a smaller order than two people would have.
Wow... you are the perfect, ideal customer!
Your post earlier was very kind and well written too.
It's crazy how many things are not our fault, yet we still get punished for them, and how messed up the politics inside the kitchen and business office is... It really is a crappy job!
But for some reason, I keep going back... interacting with all sorts of interesting people is really fun for me. I'm a glutton for punishment, I guess. It's a lot more fun for me than a lot of other jobs that pay better would be... and I think the same goes for everyone I know there. Most of my coworkers are so capable of much better, well-paying jobs (and many are in the process of becoming educated to do so), but we all stay there because it's a FUN job. Except when I'm being berated by a customer or in the weeds, I like it there. I like interacting with people. I guess that's why I dropped out of pharmacy school and into nursing school. There's a lot more interaction in nursing.
 
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