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Savannah and Safari's

post #1 of 19
Thread Starter 
Does anyone own or know of someone who has a Savannah,Safari or a hybari.
And what is your Opinion or thoughts about them.

jenn
post #2 of 19
I know of them, but I don't own one. At least I don't think I do.

My husband brought home my cat Ziggy from a lady that had kittens on the side of the road on our second wedding anniversary. My husband was smart enough to get a phone number because he knew I'd want to talk to her. It was a good thing he did... We stayed in contact a while, because one of Ziggy's littermates died of FIV... but that kitten hung out in the barn a lot with barn cats, and Ziggy had not. We kept in contact with her because she wanted to know what the outcome was. Ziggy's fine, by the way.

A couple months later, we get a call from the lady, and she says they identified the father cat, and we might be surprised to know who the dad was. Supposedly (big SUPPOSED, I don't believe her... I think she was crazy, but I didn't meet her, and my husband does believe her). Anyway, they kept the stray dad cat because he "looked cool" and it finally dawned on them to check at the vet for a microchip. Apparently, he belonged to a Savannah breeder in the state. They returned the cat, supposedly. Lots of "supposeds" huh.

Sorry, I didn't realize the story was so long. I don't have a problem with the hybrid cats, but I think it's slightly unethical to breed large males to small females (as happens with first generation Savannahs) because the breedings don't always work out, and either momma or kittens (or both) suffer. As long as animals are well-loved and there isn't a surplus that end up at shelters or euthanized, I think it's fine to create these breeds. I think the Safari cat doesn't use hybrids... they are just going for the look of a Savannah. I've never heard of the Hybari.

Best of luck in your search! If you want pics of Ziggy, let me know... but he doesn't look really all that Savannah. He's long and lanky with stripes and attitude, but who knows where all that comes from.
post #3 of 19
Obviously owning two bengals, I don't have an issue with hybrid cats in general. What I found disturbing about the savanah, though, is that the gestation period is different between the serval ('wild' cat used) and the domestic cat. So yeah, the females sometimes have complications and the babies sometimes suffer. But I am sure breeders are working diligently to find a way around this issue, if they haven't already.

The cats are pretty though. They get pretty big too.
post #4 of 19
I've read that they're having problems with agression, I swear there's been a thread on this before, i'll try and find it.
post #5 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I've read that they're having problems with agression, I swear there's been a thread on this before, i'll try and find it.
Really? I've never heard of any hybrid breed being agressive. Shy and skittish sometimes, but never agressive. Its not in a small wild cats nature to be aggressive, especially against humans. I'd love to see links to this. Thanks!
post #6 of 19
Sorry tiffanyjbt I can't find it. It was about a year ago
If it helps I think it was mainly concerned with the foundation cats, obviously particularly the F1 and F2.
I'm not mad on the Savannahs I must admit, for a domestic with wild blood give me a bengal any day of the year I guess its because I'm not comfortable with a breed whose breeders still use serval studs, and as tiffanyjbt mentioned, has problems with premature kittens.
Old thread I found
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...ghlight=serval
A breeder who made me wonder, are female servals used in the breeding program? Can't the hybrid cats survive a longer than usual gestation?
http://lynxoticatz.tripod.com/Savannah.htm
I've also just thought, the breeder doesn't post pics of kittens until 3weeks.
"I don't typically like to post pictures of kittens at such young ages. They don't look like cute little kittens until they are around three weeks old"
Is that normal? Why wouldn't you post kitten pics when they are young? The blind rat look isn't unappealing and would stir up interest earlier on. They wouldn't have to give prices, or even names? Its probably completely normal, but it makes me a little uncomfortable, probably because I'm used to seeing Nials kits from a couple of days old.
post #7 of 19
S'Okay, maybe when I'm less lazy/busy I'll do a search for it. I suspect though, that if any hybrids are acting up, its likely close to 100% associated with 'nurture' as opposed to 'nature'.

My bengals are shy, but they aren't agressive at all. My girl, Dreamer, is very stand-off-ish. If you get too close, she starts backing away. But never once has she so much as hissed at me when I do that, let alone acted agressively in any way (and believe me, I push her 'cause I want her to be more relaxed around me).
post #8 of 19
Thread Starter 
Thanks all i have just been reading on all these hybrids just for learning. It is quite interesting to see what we are doing to produce these genetics.. And as i read more about bengals i have learned that there is only about 3% wild blood in them now, due to the bengal to bengal breeding. That was somewthing i did not know.
I was looking at bengal sites and saw they were breeding Savannahs and Safaris. It said that the F1 and F2 are standofish but very loyal to the family.. sometimes to one to 2 members of the family..They are good with kids. The F3's are the best in their opinion for a family pet. they get along with kids dogs and other cats. The F3's are Savannahs bred w/Bengals..
so many to learn about. Yes they are quite bigger 10 pound bigger than your bengal.

Jenn
post #9 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
A breeder who made me wonder, are female servals used in the breeding program? Can't the hybrid cats survive a longer than usual gestation?
I think it has to do something to do with male domestic cat sperm being incapable of impregnating a Serval and miscarriages are common, but it can go the other way around. Also, the resulting offspring are sterile for a couple generations, whereas females are not, so it is easier to use females that are domestic or hybrid.

I don't have a source, just a vague recollection.
post #10 of 19
No that does sound about right- I forgot about the hybrid males being sterile. Its a shame. I guess thats the main reason why I'm not mad on the savannahs- any breed who's recent ancestry has such a high mortality rate and is So problematic doesn't seem 'right', while bengal breeders had far fewer problems getting live healthy offspring from the wild/domestic mix.
Also, tffanyjbt I like to think that the Bengal breed founders instilled the total lack of agression from the beginning, and (makes wild leap of faith) that more bengal breeders knew about how to properly socialise hybrid kittens, whereas it seems that the bengals popularity has caused lots of breeders (another wild leap) who weren't getting fantastic type bengals to branch out to the next big thing, and aren't as prepared as they should be.
Things like this worry me
http://www.hoobly.com/0/0/382754.html
post #11 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt View Post
Really? I've never heard of any hybrid breed being agressive. Shy and skittish sometimes, but never agressive. Its not in a small wild cats nature to be aggressive, especially against humans. I'd love to see links to this. Thanks!
Actually, if you read up on the history of the Bengal, if I recall correctly, the first generation or two had serious aggressive tendancies, some had to be kept alone or they would attack and kill a "rival" cat, and a lot of the momcats killed their litters.

Wild is wild, and only the strong survive. Just because they are small, doesn't mean they won't be aggressive. The aggression has been successfully bred out of the lines over the last20-30 years and now they are sweet natured and I can't wait to bring Penny home from Meridian!
post #12 of 19
I've read quite a bit on the history of bengals and the characteristics of the ALC and EG bengals. They aren't aggressive. They are shy. They have a natural fear of humans and they exhibit this by running and hiding. As for them attacking rival cats, thats common amongst intact studs of most, if not all, feline breeds/species (not to mention just about every other species on the planet).

Hopefully a bengal breeder will step in and validate what I have said.
post #13 of 19
OK, maybe I'm incorrect, but I do recall reading that the early generations had tendancies that would preclude them from making good pets.

Perhaps I misinterpreted those statements.
post #14 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
OK, maybe I'm incorrect, but I do recall reading that the early generations had tendancies that would preclude them from making good pets.

Perhaps I misinterpreted those statements.
They do have tendencies that would preclude them from making good pets in many households. But aggression is not one of those tendencies.

My girl, Dreamer, behaves a lot like an EG bengal. My breeder told me this. She's very shy, but very curious. She'll come up to you, sniff you, even play with you. But if you make any sudden movements or reach out to touch her, she withdraws from you. If you pursue her further, she runs and hides until you go back to where you were, then she starts all over again. She just doesn't like to be touched.

I am trying to get her to at least tolerate it. If she doesn't want scratches and cuddles and tummy rubs, that is perfectly fine with me. But she does need to be able to tolerate being touched and picked up. One thing I do, is while she'd eating I sit next to her bowl and rest my hand on her back. She doesn't like it, but she's a chow hound and there isn't much that can keep her nose out of her bowl! LOL! A week ago, she would have run off to hide until I left if I even lifed my hand. Now, I can keep my hand on her back until she's done eating. Doesn't seem like much, but its huge progress for me.

Anyway, she might not make a good pet in a lot of households because of this. I've never met an EG bengal myself, so my knowledge is from hearing other people tell me about their experiences. But my understanding is that they have similar behavioral 'issues'. I believe someone on this site has an F3 bengal. Maybe she can add to this, or correct me where I am wrong.
post #15 of 19
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt View Post
They do have tendencies that would preclude them from making good pets in many households. But aggression is not one of those tendencies.

My girl, Dreamer, behaves a lot like an EG bengal. My breeder told me this. She's very shy, but very curious. She'll come up to you, sniff you, even play with you. But if you make any sudden movements or reach out to touch her, she withdraws from you. If you pursue her further, she runs and hides until you go back to where you were, then she starts all over again. She just doesn't like to be touched.

I am trying to get her to at least tolerate it. If she doesn't want scratches and cuddles and tummy rubs, that is perfectly fine with me. But she does need to be able to tolerate being touched and picked up. One thing I do, is while she'd eating I sit next to her bowl and rest my hand on her back. She doesn't like it, but she's a chow hound and there isn't much that can keep her nose out of her bowl! LOL! A week ago, she would have run off to hide until I left if I even lifed my hand. Now, I can keep my hand on her back until she's done eating. Doesn't seem like much, but its huge progress for me.

Anyway, she might not make a good pet in a lot of households because of this. I've never met an EG bengal myself, so my knowledge is from hearing other people tell me about their experiences. But my understanding is that they have similar behavioral 'issues'. I believe someone on this site has an F3 bengal. Maybe she can add to this, or correct me where I am wrong.
What is a EG bengal. I know F1 F2 F3's but EG?
Jenn
post #16 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt View Post
One thing I do, is while she'd eating I sit next to her bowl and rest my hand on her back. She doesn't like it, but she's a chow hound and there isn't much that can keep her nose out of her bowl! LOL! A week ago, she would have run off to hide until I left if I even lifed my hand. Now, I can keep my hand on her back until she's done eating. Doesn't seem like much, but its huge progress for me.
I can relate to this with my semi-feral, Ferris. Early on, this was the only way I could make any physical contact with him, as he ate like there was no tomorrow when I first adopted him.

So perhaps their "tendancies" are more akin to the feral cat, who will become aggressive only out of fear and if they feel cornered.

Huh. Food for thought!
post #17 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjwharton24 View Post
What is a EG bengal. I know F1 F2 F3's but EG?
Jenn
EG means Early Generation (same as F1, F2, F3)
post #18 of 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
I can relate to this with my semi-feral, Ferris. Early on, this was the only way I could make any physical contact with him, as he ate like there was no tomorrow when I first adopted him.

So perhaps their "tendancies" are more akin to the feral cat, who will become aggressive only out of fear and if they feel cornered.

Huh. Food for thought!
I think its very much like that GingersMom. My understanding is that feral cats get their 'negative' behavioral traits from learning from mom or being alone and out of human contact (or worse, FROM human contact).

But obviously this isn't the case with my bengal. Her mom is a sweet cat. My breeder told me, however, that their dad, and most of his line, tend toward the EG cats behaviorally.

Its interesting, too, because Ares and Dreamer are littermates and Ares almost NEEDS to be petted. Hes gotten to trust me a lot more, and will now flop over on his side purring like a jet! It amazes me sometimes that they came from the same litter!
post #19 of 19
I read a book on cat studies once that said that kittens from feral fathers who were socialised well were about as people friendly as kittens from lovebug fathers who weren't socialised. If that makes sense...
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