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Members of the British Navy being held by Iran - Page 2

post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
that what the UN does best, nothing. they do less harm that way.
Having done an internship at the UN, I have to disagree there. Sure, there have been occasions when UN action has been inappropriate with hindsight, but what they do in respect of thousands of global issues is worthwhile. The media/people usually only focus on the negative.

It's not for the UN, at this time (12 days), to do anything but express 'grave concern' or disapproval over this Iran matter. Its for UK/Iran to try and resolve this matter through diplomatic means and then if nothing has been resolved after a fair while, then more global action can looked at (e.g. sanctions).

I have been watching these 'confessions' with interest on the news. I can understand how the Foreign Office have deemed them to be 'unacceptable' (for their potential to cause distress to the hostages' families)...however, all in all, I think they have been quite insightful. I know there is a huge likelihood that they have been coerced into making the confessions...but its good to see them looking healthy, clean and with no injuries.

I'm curious to know whether in military 'conduct during capure' training they are taught to give codes/signals if they are filmed? If so, I wonder what codes/signs have those being held have been able to give? An expert on body language was on the news yesterday explaining what their body language in the tv footage seemed to portray - he said it was stress, coercion, comfort being in a group and will to survive and do whatever is necessary to survive.

The Iran senior officials are now back from their religious holiday...so we'll see what the response is. I think the President is giving a press conference today. From today's news...it seems that Iran is looking to resolve the matter diplomatically.

Finally, I have to commend the UK government's response even though I know that the issue has some way to go before being resolved (!). They have been critiscised by some for being 'too soft' but dealing with a bullying, manipulative country like Iran through diplomatic means and with comments which have not provoked an agressive response is far better, at this stage, than responding with threats or with a rather 'gun-ho'/actionary attitude.
post #32 of 58
Today's news does seem more hopeful of a resolution to this disaster. The Iranians seem to want to talk their way out of it, our government certainly can't consider force to rescue these sailors, not the way they have cut our armed forces, and with fighting going on in Iraq & Afghanistan the soldiers have enough to do. If both sides can reach an agreement without fighting it make the whole situation in the Middle East look more hopeful for the future.
post #33 of 58
Thread Starter 
The Iranian president has pardoned the sailors and Marines and says they will be released shortly.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/...ors/index.html
post #34 of 58
THEY ARE RELEASED

Sky News Update
post #35 of 58
Thread Starter 
Hooray!!!!

I'm so glad this was settled quickly and without any loss of life.
post #36 of 58
Oh thank God for that! It gives some hope for any other situations like this in the future.

Awwww what their families must be feeling like at the moment?, i bet it's one big party
post #37 of 58
Well this is just the kind of diplomacy Iran is wanting at this point...

I find this situation suspicious but will be celebrating those hard-working members of the British Navy coming home nonetheless
post #38 of 58
So glad the 15 have been released!!!

Half of me is a little dubious that Iran calls it a 'gift to the UK'.. I hope Iran does not hold that against the UK in future. The other half, thinks that Iran knows its in the wrong and is trying to save face....by calling it a 'gift', Iran is trying to gain credibility amongst its people and the Arab nations.
post #39 of 58
I'm very happy for the British sailors and marines that were released and for their families.

I had some comments about the Iranian president but they really aren't appropriate to post so I'll keep them to myself.
post #40 of 58
I think that it is a positive move and a good decision by the Iranian government. All of their motivations at this point can't be known, I believe, but the fact that this has been resolved peaceably and without bloodshed or violence bodes very well for future relations and I am pleased to see that Iran and Britain have resolved this through negotiation, and a clear mutual desire for no escalation or retaliation. I applaud them both, and I think there needs to be more of this kind of outcome for potentially disastrous situations in the world. It shows that talking, listening and mediation can solve dangerous and tenuous situations, without descending into armed conflict.
post #41 of 58
I'm wondering how soon those Iranian suits they were made to wear will be on e-Bay
post #42 of 58
Ok, I'm going to get flamed for saying this...

BBC news had the Iranian version of events and the British version of events, and the British version sounded so convoluted and ridiculous, whereas the Iranians were saying they were trying to give the British the coordinates and satellite pictures they had, but they were refusing to accept anything until the marines were released. They also claim that the marines said that yes they had strayed into Iranian waters (only by 500m) , and had apologised, but the British government did not want to admit that. I can't find the story now unfortunately....

I don't think the marines were in any danger - they were being held by the Iranian government, not some random Iraqi militia, and it looks as though they were well taken care of. President Ahmadinejad personally met with them, and shook their hands, and the marines didn't look at all worried, they were looking pretty pleased. If they'd been mistreated in any way, they wouldn't have been looking so happy, even if they did know the were going home.

I feel a bit of sympathy toward the Iranians - they seem to be constantly made out as the bad guys, and they constantly get pushed around by the US in particular. I've seen so many interviews with the Iranian president, and I try to watch them where I can, because the politics of the Middle East interest me, and he always comes across as intelligent and well spoken, and not at all threatening. And most of the interviews, the interviewer is treating him like the scum of the earth, and it is truly disgusting to watch a country's president get treated so badly.

One interview a while back with a dude from 60 minutes was so degrading and downright rude that DH and I were steaming for days. The interviewer said "your minders are telling me I have to wrap it up, but you told me I could ask whatever I wanted", to which the president replied "yes, but as we agreed, it is my prayer time, and I must be leaving", and the interviewer said "oh that can wait, just a couple more questions", and President Ahmadinejad politely said "ok, one more question, then I must leave".

He handled that rude, arrogant *#$@($&@ so much better than I would have!

I think this move by Iran was to show the world that they would not be bullied, and they will protect their country and borders, and they will do it in a calm, political, non-violent manner.

I don't agree that the Iranians should have used the marines as political pawns, and I feel for their families who would have been worried sick, but I think the big powers came off looking like nothing but bullies.
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahp View Post
Ok, I'm going to get flamed for saying this...

BBC news had the Iranian version of events and the British version of events, and the British version sounded so convoluted and ridiculous, whereas the Iranians were saying they were trying to give the British the coordinates and satellite pictures they had, but they were refusing to accept anything until the marines were released. They also claim that the marines said that yes they had strayed into Iranian waters (only by 500m) , and had apologised, but the British government did not want to admit that. I can't find the story now unfortunately.....
Is this it?http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/6502805.stm
post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahp View Post

I feel a bit of sympathy toward the Iranians - they seem to be constantly made out as the bad guys, and they constantly get pushed around by the US in particular. I've seen so many interviews with the Iranian president, and I try to watch them where I can, because the politics of the Middle East interest me, and he always comes across as intelligent and well spoken, and not at all threatening. And most of the interviews, the interviewer is treating him like the scum of the earth, and it is truly disgusting to watch a country's president get treated so badly.
I think it pretty disgusting that he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, denies the Holocaust, and even hosted a conference on the Holocaust "myth".
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
Nope that's not it - it's very different to what they had up a few days ago.
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcat View Post
I think it pretty disgusting that he wants to wipe Israel off the face of the earth, denies the Holocaust, and even hosted a conference on the Holocaust "myth".
Sure, he isn't exactly "president of the year", but he's up front about what he thinks, and I think a lot of things he says and does are deliberately painted in a very bad light in the media and blown out of proportion.
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahp View Post

I don't think the marines were in any danger - they were being held by the Iranian government, not some random Iraqi militia, and it looks as though they were well taken care of. President Ahmadinejad personally met with them, and shook their hands, and the marines didn't look at all worried, they were looking pretty pleased. If they'd been mistreated in any way, they wouldn't have been looking so happy
Sarah just to follow your comments..........

So the marines etc have now been interviewed on UK TV

they reported being stripped, hand-tied, and blindfolded - put against walls and heard the sound of guns being cocked

they were put in isolation

at one point, the female was removed from the males and told they had been sent back to the UK - she was under this impression for 3 days

now I think I would feel in grave danger if only one of those things happened to me

But I would also like to say I think we are all being naive if we believe everything thats fed to us via the news etc...especially when a situation like this arises - the Iranians showed us what they wanted us to see and I am sure its the same for the UK. Yes there will be some grains of truth, but they are too mixed up with all the propagander to know what is true and what is not.
post #48 of 58
Much as I hate to say this- especially after the personal attack on me previously on this thread- but the treatment of the British Navy officers in this instance seems quite better than that of uncharged prisoners in Guantanamo Bay
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
Much as I hate to say this- especially after the personal attack on me previously on this thread- but the treatment of the British Navy officers in this instance seems quite better than that of uncharged prisoners in Guantanamo Bay
I agree with you, but it still doesnt make it right
post #50 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by sarahp View Post
I don't think the marines were in any danger - they were being held by the Iranian government, not some random Iraqi militia, and it looks as though they were well taken care of.
You've heard the saying "No one knows what goes on behind closed doors".

If this hasn't been playing mind games with our armed service men!

Hearing a gun being cocked behind my back when i'm blind folded would be enough think that my life was about to end

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/a...ors/article.do
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
Much as I hate to say this- especially after the personal attack on me previously on this thread- but the treatment of the British Navy officers in this instance seems quite better than that of uncharged prisoners in Guantanamo Bay
Your right, but try telling the British Navy Officers and their families that.
post #51 of 58
All I have to say is: The Iranians ARE the bad guys.
post #52 of 58
Only according to us.
post #53 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
Only according to us.

man and you have been doing so well as of late

lol how can a country that puts to death women that are raped be the good guys.
post #54 of 58
lol for once i wish i was work, i have a site saved that translates, President Ahmadinejad speechs, maybe then you could say why.
post #55 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
man and you have been doing so well as of late
Bruce that made me laugh. Laugh out loud, actually!

Quote:
how can a country that puts to death women that are raped be the good guys.
I'm not saying they're the good guys, either. These issues such as the one you mention are horrifying to people raised the way we have been. They're unjustified no matter how you look at it. But, that's their way. To them (I'm sure not to the women) it is normal. Even though it is wrong no matter how you were raised. So, I just meant that from their perspective, we are probably the bad guys. From our perspective, they are the bad guys.

Most times, there's an element of truth to both perspectives, which is how wars start in the first place.
post #56 of 58
So if from Osama's perspective he is a good guy then that makes him a good guy? Not to me it doesn't. Kit, would you rather live in the US or Iran?
post #57 of 58
Not at all! What I said is that from his perspective he is a good guy so that justifies the things that he does to him and those who follow him. It doesn't make him the good guy at all. To quote myself (lol), `They're unjustified no matter how you look at it. But, that's their way. To them (I'm sure not to the women) it is normal. Even though it is wrong no matter how you were raised.' But it's not as black and white as that - the good guys and the bad guys, it never is.

My sister-in-law lived in Iran for a long time. She loved it. She has a lot of perspective on this situation coming from someone who has actually lived there. You can find good in everyone, in every country. She didn't agree with some things that happen there, but she said, on the whole, it was a wonderful place with some truly lovely people. She doesn't agree with some things that happen here, either, as a result of our government.

Again, things are never black-and-white. I don't know where I'd prefer to live, I've never been to either place. Are they my only choices??
post #58 of 58
Some of the Navy crew have sold their stories to the British press but following this the Ministry of Defence have banned the sale of more stories...
I think the MoD fears stories they can't control
Apparently over $250,000 has been made and a lot of the clothes have ended up on e-Bay
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