Finding a mate

familytimerags

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Originally Posted by Miyu

I have never seen a breeder here offer that with out request. I really should write the paper about that and hopefully educate the people that this should be a city requirement.

But the thing I worry about is people love kittens love to breed and will do it no matter what you say, if someone wanted “one†litter, donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t you think you could help them rather then them just going out and doing it anyway, if you provided the cat and explained if you want just one litter you need to buy this cat only because…(everything you just said… its healthy, has good genes, that you need to test for that and can provide the perfect mate) then mess up your Gene pool. And just sell a breeder, I mean if you do sell, I agree, 2 every 5 years, that sounds good. But still I hope they donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t go crazy. Take a cat that you would have bread, but rather you doing it, allow them to do it. (well you would still do it, but they feel like they are doing it) Because I bet you have One queen that is probably your best, and a few others that you are trying to create good kittens out of. Sell one of them. and if they only want one litter you know they will spay her after and WOW, less kitties, I mean you have breeding cats, why not let One of you breeding cats retire early. but better quality cats. I mean if your not out for the money, but just for bettering the breed, then Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m sure you donâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t have to do it yourself.

I understand but...I have not seen it but I have heard of some people who breed as a team, one keeps males and one keeps females. I think that is great you never have accidents.
Well, I should first start off and say our breeders are our pets first and foremost. I have retired 3 queens, after a short breeding life, and placed them with families who adopted one of their kittens. All of my girls have the run of the house, and our loved by us, until we find the best home for them.

I work with other registered breeders, who are registered with breed association that have a code of ethics for breeders to stand by, (more annual costs to be a member). I don't think you realize when people go to a breeders website, and see the prices, that even you, yourself are expensive, they see money, they don't see vet bills and health tests ran. Now out of those, (lets say)...10 people who contacted me, and wanted to have just one litter, lets say 1, was willing to do what I feel is ethical in breeding. If I was to take that person and allow them to breed one of our offspring, that offspring being my responsibility, so being their full mentor, should also be my responsibility. A special contract would need to be wrote up, to ensure the spaying of the cat after the kittens were weaned. I just wrote a little more and erased it, as there were to many "what ifs" I could go into. If a person wants one litter, why shouldn't they go to a shelter to help out? Why should we not spay our female at 12 weeks of age, and know that she won't have mammary or uterine cancer or infection?
Here is my largest "what if", so I did find one person who did live close, had the same ethics in breeding as I do. It took me almost 2 full years of research about breeding before I ever even got my first breeder pair, how in the world will this person contacting me know what all issues could up. Even experienced breeders can
I have taken on a someone as a mentor just recently, and when a quality male comes available, that will compliment her program, she will get a male, however I spoke with her for over 6 months, got to know her and I do believe that in several months, when her time comes she will be a wonderful asset to our chosen breed.
You are correct in saying that experienced breeders should mentor other newer breeders, however, not to someone who just wants to experience the birth of kittens, as they can do that from a shelter. Breeding should be a passion of that breed, to want to produce healthy offspring, who live long happy lives for people that can spoil them.
Of course, I can't better the breed all by myself, and would never claim to even have full credit on my own offspring, I give credit to the breeders before me that were registered, spent time and money on health tests, and have shown their cats to be quality.
I also have to mention, that another large reason I don't feel comfortable with "one litter", is I doubt they will want to have a registered cattery, and when one is looking at pedigrees, it is nice to know the cattery prefix, so one can easier identify the breeder of the cat, in case questions arise. If I just sold a kitten unaltered, unless I co-owned the cat, the kitten would not have a cattery name before it.
My 2 boys have a large room with toys and 2, 6 and 7 foot cat trees, to play on, with daily socialization. They only come in contact with our females when we want to purposely breed a pair.
I am a closed cattery, meaning I don't offer stud service, or want one of my females in another cattery setting, that also is for health reasons.


I also know it would be nice for every breeder to test their cats, it isn't mandatory, and making it a city requirement would be close to impossible. We can't our cities to govern breeding of animals too closely, so to have them monitor testing of animals is really pushing it.

I also rescue, within my breed and out. I also take in all the neighbors or stray cats, that they leave outdoors, and get them altered at our expense. I don't just care about purebred cats, but all cats, and I do believe that all kittens and puppies, that are not going to be used in a quality breeding program, should be spayed and neutered prior to placement. I can say where each one of my offspring is, and I know that if an ad pops up in my newspaper saying "Purebred kittens for $200 without papers", I can say without a doubt it isn't from one of the babies I produced. I do give papers on all of our kittens, but I do mark them not for breeding, and at times not for showing, if the white isn't right.
We have a difference of opinion, it happens, you have your beliefs and I have mine. We both want what is best for all cats, and that we agree on.
 

renovia

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Please do not breed your moggie.

there are THOUSANDS of moggies waiting to be adopted in shelters. And while those those are being euthanized, THOUSANDS more are shipped to shelters.

Spay your pet so we can keep the moggie population down. there is a reason that breeders have to go through an act of congress to be breeders and reputable ones DO NOT have an excess of litters.

Remember that you WILL be contributing to over population of moggie cats if you let your pet have a litter. As people said before - your cat gets no satisfaction out of it.

If you would like to have a litter of kittens - foster some.
 

miyu

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Family time rags:

actually I agree 100% with everything that you are saying. I think people need to be as clear about that, you explane well the reason for breeding and how to do it, alot of people like to just spout off things. the person who wrote this post wanted to breed but everyone would say no, that breeding is bad, and you shouldn't do it, and it comes off that they are trying to tell her what she can and cannot do. I like the way you speak it is very educating. becasue like i said I'm sure she will do it anyways, so why not try and support it so it is done properly.
 

goldenkitty45

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Simply because we don't support the breeding on purpose of mixed breed cats! Its plain and simple. And the pedigrees should be quality for breeding - not PET quality but show quality - whether they breed them or not.

Because I did my research I only had 2 kittens (cornish rex) that would be consider "pet" quality - the majority would have done quite well in the show ring - but most of them still wound up being loved pets - not show cats.

And I only sold 2 cats for breeding in the 7 litters I had!
 

gayef

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Originally Posted by Miyu

... like i said I'm sure she will do it anyways, so why not try and support it so it is done properly ...
Because it is in direct violation of our rules here at TCS to support it, done properly or not. Please see Rule #2, quoted below:

2. Please make sure to spay and neuter your cat. Unless you are a professional breeder and your cat is part of a professional breeding program, please educate yourself to the importance of spaying and neutering by the time your cat is 4-6 months old. By spaying and neutering you enhance your cat's quality of life and improve his or her health. You are also proving your love for cats because in acting as a responsible pet owner you are minimizing the problem of cat overpopulation.

This Forum is the Breeder's Corner. Most of the people who participate regularly in this Forum ARE actually breeders. We have done the research, spent the time as well as money and put forth the effort to do what we do knowing and accepting the responsibility that comes along with it - we possess a very strong sense of ethics. As such, the breeders here (I feel safe in speaking for ALL of us) support spay/neuter of non-pedigreed cats.
 

keisha

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Regarding to whether or not you breed your cat. It is purely your decision. And I will support you with whatever you choose.
As for finding a mate, choose someone who is healthy, with no history of m edical problems.
Are you going to breed her to a purebred or a mixed?
Good luck!
 

missymotus

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Originally Posted by Keisha

Are you going to breed her to a purebred or a mixed?
No responsible breeder will allow their purebred to be bred with a moggie.
 

familytimerags

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Originally Posted by Keisha

Regarding to whether or not you breed your cat. It is purely your decision. And I will support you with whatever you choose.
As for finding a mate, choose someone who is healthy, with no history of m edical problems.
Are you going to breed her to a purebred or a mixed?
Good luck!
Please read the above post by Gayef, this forum does not advocate or promote this type of breeding. It is in the rules, which I fully support and stand behind.
I do hope this thread educated at least one person, regarding ethical breeding practices, because it went over the head of at least some.
 

keisha

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Please read the above post by Gayef, this forum does not advocate or promote this type of breeding. It is in the rules, which I fully support and stand behind.
I do hope this thread educated at least one person, regarding ethical breeding practices, because it went over the head of at least some.
I realize that. And i was not trying to promote breeding. i just think that its her cat. And its her choice. There doesn't need to be a heated discussion over something that you arent' even involved in. I dont' believe in breeding mixed cats anymore than you do. There are enough of them out there. But she can do what she wants to do. All you needed to do was state your opinion and leave. Some people have different views on things than you do. And you should accept that. Not try to get them to think that what you think is right.
 

jenniferd

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Originally Posted by Keisha

I realize that. And i was not trying to promote breeding. i just think that its her cat. And its her choice. There doesn't need to be a heated discussion over something that you arent' even involved in. I dont' believe in breeding mixed cats anymore than you do. There are enough of them out there. But she can do what she wants to do. All you needed to do was state your opinion and leave. Some people have different views on things than you do. And you should accept that. Not try to get them to think that what you think is right.
While there certainly no laws against breeding mixed cats, considering the cat overpopulation and how many cats and kittens are in shelters and are being euthanaized, seems breeding mixed breed cats on purpose is not the best thing to do, to put it mildly. Why would someone want to do it? Just because something can be done does not mean it should be done. And I see no problem with trying to get someone to do what most people agree is a right thing to do. Rather than giving advice on how to accomplish the thing that hardly seems the right thing to do.
 

familytimerags

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Originally Posted by Keisha

I realize that. And i was not trying to promote breeding. i just think that its her cat. And its her choice. There doesn't need to be a heated discussion over something that you arent' even involved in. I dont' believe in breeding mixed cats anymore than you do. There are enough of them out there. But she can do what she wants to do. All you needed to do was state your opinion and leave. Some people have different views on things than you do. And you should accept that. Not try to get them to think that what you think is right.
I guess I must have misunderstood your words, let me go back over them.

You said. "Regarding to whether or not you breed your cat. It is purely your decision. And I will support you with whatever you choose.
As for finding a mate, choose someone who is healthy, with no history of m edical problems. Are you going to breed her to a purebred or a mixed?
Good luck!"

Okay, I reread your post, and I see that you support the breeding, if she so chooses. I would think that to mean that you do believe in breeding mixed cats, A LOT more than I do. You also ask if she is going to breed with a purebred or mixed, and say "good luck". I would also read into that as "support".

I don't wish for everyone to think as I do, but I do hope to educate people on breeding ethics, and I can almost promise, there is no reputable breeder that would show any type of support for this type of breeding.

I also just want to mention, that finding a mixed breed with no "history" of medical problems will be quite difficult, as they can't trace the pedigree, and know if parents, grandparents, great-grandparents had health issues.

I don't want to seem rude, Keisha, but you say it isn't anything "I" am involved with. That is somewhat a true statement, but then again, I help with rescue, I help give money and supplies to our already overcrowed shelters. I think someone should take a responsible step and say, no, this isn't right. I can even respect those people who want to experience one litter, or those who say, I want my kids to experience birth, but to those people I say, go to your local shelter and find a pregnant cat, foster her, nurture her, help her deliver, experience all the facets of raising the litter until they have been vaccinated, wormed, and altered, and help out your shelter, a cat, and have something to be proud of.

You have to realize that we are all passionate about our pets, but to completely step back and say nothing, I feel would be irresponsible of me, and to step up and support such a breeding, seems even worse, but that is only MY opinion.
 

miyu

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yeah the majority people posting are breeders and they only support purebred cats, but I bet everyone of you at one time has had a mixed breed cat in your home have kittens, and if someone says no, I think its not true.

I have to say I have learnt a lot in these posts, so it hasnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t gone completely over my head. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not gonna lie to you and say that I am perfect because I am by far not, my cats are mixed breeds, but mixed with 2 different purebreds. And I checked them out for health before I bred for kittens. However I never checked their family history for health, that was ignorance on my part, I mean I figured that if she is healthy and the father is healthy then the kittens will be healthy too. But who knows, Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not trying to play God and create the perfect cat. But just because some people here are totally against breeding mixed cats, doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t mean you have to be rude about it, like I say I prefer mixed cats because I have yet to see more good breeders then bad, but that is just what I think and I have taken my mixed breeds to cat show, you can have just as much fun with a mixed breed as any cat. And there will always be people out there who love them.

I do hope that one day we will have more good breeders here then bad, and I hope that there will be less mixed breeds and health issues because of the increase in knowledge, but that is not going to happen over night.
 

miyu

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But like I said I have learnt a lot about the“only one litter†aspect and will never look at it the same, but I still by far have my own opinion. And it is much different then some of the fanatical breeders. not all of you, I really respect some of you and your points.
 

gayef

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Originally Posted by Miyu

yeah the majority people posting are breeders and they only support purebred cats, but I bet everyone of you at one time has had a mixed breed cat in your home have kittens, and if someone says no, I think its not true.
I have had ~several~ mixed breed cats and not one of them has ever been allowed to have kittens, either "accidently" or, more importantly, on purpose. Are you really sure you want to try and tell me that I am not telling the truth about that?

And to presume that breeders only support pedigreed cats is absurd! The vast majority of us ALSO participate heavily with rescue and shelter activities. It would be more accurate to say that we only support breeding pedigreed cats. I know I have supported MANY mixed breed cats over my 47 years ... everything from bottling them as newborns that some numpty dropped off on my farm because I live in that "magical place" known as The Country, where ALL unwanted pets find loving homes to having to euthanize those whose time had come. How can you say that I only support pedigreed cats when I have not only the paid invoices, but also the painful memories of those non-pedigreed cats whose lives, however long or short, were spent in my care.

I have to say I have learnt a lot in these posts, so it hasnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t gone completely over my head. Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not gonna lie to you and say that I am perfect because I am by far not, my cats are mixed breeds, but mixed with 2 different purebreds. And I checked them out for health before I bred for kittens. However I never checked their family history for health, that was ignorance on my part, I mean I figured that if she is healthy and the father is healthy then the kittens will be healthy too. But who knows, Iâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]m not trying to play God and create the perfect cat.
My dear, you couldn't be more mistaken about health ... just because the father and mother of a litter of kittens were healthy does not ensure that the kittens will be as well. Genetics plays a very, very large part in health. So much so that it cannot possibly be discounted when planning a mating. With non-pedigreed cats, you have nothing upon which to base your decision to breed. You don't know the history of the cats in the lines, you haven't the first foggy clue as to who their ancestors were or what health issues they possessed. You could be unknowingly allowing major catastrophic health issues to be born in these kittens from cats who existed many, many generations back in the line. It just isn't smart to do this. That's why experienced and responsible breeders do not advocate mixed-breed pairings where the ancestry is unknown. Responsible breeders breed for health along with the other important traits. It doesn't have anything to do with us being uppity, perfection-seeking maniacs in capri pants - we KNOW the kittens we are allowing to be born WILL be healthy as well as adhere to the current breed standard.

But just because some people here are totally against breeding mixed cats, doesnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t mean you have to be rude about it,
As far as I can see, no one here has been at all rude to you. If you can point out to me where a rude comment was made then I can certainly take the appropriate moderation action and have those comments removed from the Forum.

like I say I prefer mixed cats because I have yet to see more good breeders then bad, but that is just what I think and I have taken my mixed breeds to cat show, you can have just as much fun with a mixed breed as any cat. And there will always be people out there who love them.
There is nothing wrong with mixed-breed cats. Absolutely nothing! And there is nothing wrong with preferring them to pedigreed cats. Having a pedigreed cat isn't for everyone, just as having a mixed-breed cat isn't for everyone. And then there are those who have reached a balance somewhere inbetween the two and share their home and heart with both pedigreed and non-pedigreed cats. Personally, I have loved a large number of non-pedigreed, mixed-breed cats over my lifetime. And I love my current pedigreed babies no less or more than those who came before them.

I am deeply sorry that your experiences with breeders have been less than positive. It saddens me greatly to know there are those kinds of people out there in the world. But not ALL breeders are bad. There are those of us who are kind, compassionate, caring people who love our cats as if they were our own children and who watch over their reproductive activities with a very, very strong sense of ethics. We raise fat, happy, healthy and beautiful kittens who go on to be stars on the show circuit, stay-at-home moms and dads or beloved pet companions.

I do hope that one day we will have more good breeders here then bad, and I hope that there will be less mixed breeds and health issues because of the increase in knowledge, but that is not going to happen over night.
No, it isn't going to happen overnight. But it isn't going to happen AT ALL unless we all stand firm in our support of spay/neuter for mixed-breed cats by people who don't know what they are doing.
 

familytimerags

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Excellent post, Gaye!!

I have to admit I have not owned a mixbreed, since I lived with my parents, and was a married adult with children, before we got our first Ragdoll alter. I can say, that I have not either had an accidental breeding or on purpose litter, however, my parents did bring in a stray Mom and let her have 3 kittens in our garage when I was 12, my first love was a blue and white kitten mixed breed, named Elimanzer, and because it was "normal" back then to allow their cats to live outdoors, Eli lived too short of a life, because when we drove into our driveway she came to greet us, and my stepdad didn't see her.

I think something that we should think about is, years ago, it was normal to let our cat live indoor/outdoor lives, to declaw, not to spay and neuter our animals. We didn't have the education on common feline diseases as well as the more rare. We NOW have the education that outdoor cats are at greater risk for something to go wrong, and have a shorter life span. We not know that declawing is a cruel, painful, unnecessary procedure, we now know how much more healthy it is for our animals to live their lives spayed and neutered, with the exception of experienced breeders.
The only way to help to cure problems is to educate others, and HOPE they take the well meaning advice.
It can get irritating at times to repeat all the same things to different people, who all say the same thing, but as a breeder, or just as a person who loves animals, I feel it should be everyones responsibility to educate others.
 

sol

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Originally Posted by Miyu

yeah the majority people posting are breeders and they only support purebred cats, but I bet everyone of you at one time has had a mixed breed cat in your home have kittens, and if someone says no, I think its not true.
Well, then you'll believe I'm a lier. I've had two moggies and they were both spayed. Never fathered or mothered any kittens. When I wanted to start breeding I started to do research and I bought a purebreed and made sure the breeder was ready to support me (which she's done).
 

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I appreciate all of our breeders here who are working hard to educate other. Thank you for your thoughtful posts.
 

goldenkitty45

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I will confess that we have owned mixed breeds that did have litters. When I met and married my husband, we lived on a farm. Before we married, he let the barn cats breed. After we married, I convinced him how much better cats they would be if neutered and spayed. Thankfully, he agreed and one by one we had them all done. We've been married 5 yrs - and only had 2 litters - the females were spayed as quick as possible and the boys done too. We only kept 5 outside barn cats so it was not too much to handle.

Ling was the last litter - her brothers/sisters were done before they left. I'm no longer breeding purebreds but still educate people on the need to spay and neuter mixed breeds AND pet quality purebreds. IMO the only cats that should be bred on purpose are the purebred SHOW quality.

Stray mixed breeds do enough breeding of their own without our help. We can help by not contributing to that population by letting them have "just one litter" on purpose.
 

renovia

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the last part was great. . .


boy this thread digresses.
 
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