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Calico Smoke?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
So me and the breeder of one of my new girls have been talking, and we agree we are pretty sure ms Cleo is a Calico Smoke..she doesntlook like any of my other calicos for sure.

Any opinions?
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post #2 of 23
I am the breeder of the calico in the pictures and I think she is a calico smoke based on her coloring. She has a white undercoat underneath her black and it is very apparent in the face. Her father is a cream/white persian and mother a tortie point himalayan. I am thinking that the father carries the smoke gene because I own his son as well and he is a black smoke/white male. I am new to smokes as a breeder and just beginning to figure them out. Any help would be greatly appreciated!
post #3 of 23
I don't know anything about colors or genetics but she is just adorable.
post #4 of 23
I know a bit about geneitcs, but would have to look over things again to see ifthings are similar to humans as for cats. My problem is trying to figure out the different types of cat breeds. Some are easier than others, lol. Where are my notes now, hmmmmm.
post #5 of 23
What she is, is just adorable! I love her little face! More photos, please!
post #6 of 23
One parent HAS to be a smoke in order for the kitten to be a smoke. You can't "carry" the smoke gene.

A lot of times kittens get a "fever" coat with looks smokey till they grow in the adult coat. I've seen it on blacks a lot - really does make them seem smokey.

I don't think its a smoke. What color are the grandparents of the calico?

If you really want to know if its a smoke, check the base of the leg hair and the head - has to be PURE white - not just lighter color.
post #7 of 23
If I may put in my 2 cents worth? I just checked the breed standards and it's my belief the kitten is not a calico but that you may just have a...

SHADED TORTOISESHELL: undercoat white. Mantle of black and red shading down the sides, face and tail. Frill, ear tufts, stomach and chest, white to lightly tipped. The general effect to be much darker than the shell tortoiseshell. Nose leather, rims of eyes and paw pads: rose pink to black, may be patched. Eye color: brilliant copper.

OR...

SHELL TORTOISESHELL: undercoat white. The coat on the back, flanks and tail to be lightly tipped with black and shades of red. Face and legs may be lightly shaded with tipping. Frill, ear tufts, stomach and chest, white to lightly tipped. Nose leather, rims of eyes and paw pads: rose pink to black, may be patched. Eye color: brilliant copper.

The breed standards for a calico requires:

As a preferred minimum, the cat should have white feet, legs, undersides, chest and muzzle. Less white than this minimum should be penalized proportionately.

And that's my 2 cents!!!!
post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
thanks for the inputs and glad passique joined the post too cause she has more free access to the little sweety right now I only have the pictures. i thought about the shaded or shell tortieshell myself too but..havent delt with these colors before. so it salways good to get opinions.
post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
hmm well theres some shaded torties on here..
http://www.pandecats.com/g_shadedsmoke.php
post #10 of 23
Yes THEY are smokes - its obvious. But like I said - ONE parent has to be a smoke (no such thing as carrying smoke) to be a smoke. In the case of producing a smoke son, the mother had to have been a smoke herself - since she said the father was not a smoke.
post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
i was posting the link more for Abbysmum. in RE her refrence to the shaded/shell tortie idea..because there were shaded and shell torties listed on there as well..and IMO she doesnt look anything like them.

however, heres two Calico smokes I found:
http://callcentrecorp.com/~poppy1/calicosmoke.jpg
http://home.no/finearts/splattermini.jpg

Me and the breeder have been talking more tonight, and doing some digging and research. The dad's mom is a prefix 1177 on the paperwork which with my digging is Shaded Tortoiseshell.

Could be, perhaps dad himself got mislabeled in color by the org. breeder. I have seen it happen in horses...myself.

Mom's parents are flame point & Blue point so no smoke there.

this is gonna be a guess the color like one of the horses i sold a while back, LOL
post #12 of 23
I have written to the CFA asking their opinion on what color she is. I sent all the pictures so we should have a response soon. I do think her dad is a cream/white smoke, his cream is almost white and he looks more smoke colored to me. We are learning as we go here. Smokes are new to me as I said before. Whew...I don't know how you all keep it all straight. LOL!
post #13 of 23
I never keep my colors straight (except for Abys and Somalis )...I always have the CFA breed standards next to my computer and I just keep referring back to it! It also helps that my best breeder friends are Persian/Exo breeders!!!
post #14 of 23
Thread Starter 
LOL..color genetics still irk me as far as cats. I am getting better though I know my bloodlines,and my other stuff. so colors i fiqure i can still work on. *chuckles*

heck took me..all my years sincei could talk to learn the Equine..what makes what..

Still trying to sort out the purebred Arabian Palys that have shown up..but what can ya do
post #15 of 23
Yes its very possible that the cream/white father is a cream smoke - that is very hard to tell. If the father's mother is a tortie smoke then most likely he's registered as the wrong color (not sure what you can do about it).

The kitten then could be a smoke calico when full grown.

I've seen mislabelled rex colors on pedigrees - one in particular was labled as a blue/white van and a cream mother - the kitten was labeled as a TORTOISESHELL! The father had to be a light color black/white - not a blue/white. But it was about 8-10 generations behind.
post #16 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Yes its very possible that the cream/white father is a cream smoke - that is very hard to tell. If the father's mother is a tortie smoke then most likely he's registered as the wrong color (not sure what you can do about it).

The kitten then could be a smoke calico when full grown.

I've seen mislabelled rex colors on pedigrees - one in particular was labled as a blue/white van and a cream mother - the kitten was labeled as a TORTOISESHELL! The father had to be a light color black/white - not a blue/white. But it was about 8-10 generations behind.
I just got off the phone with CFA on what can be done for mismarked papers. Gal said you just cross out the color on the paper work and write in the right one. and mail it back..with a $8 fee and they take care of it. I was curious, lol...

Ack thats a big mis lable But it happens. my favourite horse one was a horse that was very very very obviously a light mahogony bay, had been registered black.
post #17 of 23
Scamper, then I'm assuming the breeder of the father (cream smoke/white) would have to change the paperwork on him if you want to register the calico as a smoke.

However, I would not register her as a smoke till you are positive. You'd have to wait a few months to see what the adult coat really is.
post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 
Breeder or current owner I belive. But i didnt ask that much I just asked what would be done. out of curiousness.

Its gonna be a while til the little one comes home anywho. No big rush. Just curious nature and all. Not everyones as easy as Caesar to tag, LOL
post #19 of 23
You shouldn't have too much of a problem changing his color if he was never shown. However if he's a champion that posses a problem because the title would be striped and if shown again, he'd have to start over as a cream smoke bicolor.
post #20 of 23
I got the cream/white male from a breeder friend of mine. He is doll faced and has never been shown so a color change would be simple. He is a very beautiful cat. He came to me shaved down and I can't wait to see him with his full coat. I also purchased the black smoke/white son of this male and he was registered as a blue/white, so I will have to change his color too. I don'th think this breeder knew much about color, she told me he was a black smoke/white yet his paper said blue/white bi-color. Oh well, they are both here with me and in a much better home enviroment where they will be loved forever and produce gorgeous kittens for me.
post #21 of 23
Yeah I can sure see why you'd think she's a smoke. Where it should be black coloring, it's muted into a grey. Hmmm kind of cool.
post #22 of 23
I think where it gets REALLY confusing is when trying to determine those himmie colors and the tabbies. Gee louise - from reading and looking - it's confurrsing.
post #23 of 23
Thread Starter 
yup..guess we will see what the CFA says.
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