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Question about calicoes - Page 2

post #31 of 51
I've always thought that any significant ammoutn of white made a cat a calico and that very little to no white meant a tortie or torbie. I've always called my Frankie a calico because she has a good ammount of white on her but it's mostly on her underside and over her shoulders.
post #32 of 51
If you think of it as a white cat (like yours) that has spots of black/red - you have a calico
post #33 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by XxtashaxX View Post
this has been an intresting read as im still not 100% what chloe is lol. iv been told different.
first calico.
then tortie and white.
and then something else which i can not remember lol heres some pics. thought i would make this thread a bit more confusing more then it already is lol
I am going to confuse the issue all the more! The term 'Calico' is a US term, not a UK term, we don't 'officially' use the word calico.

What an American would call a Calico, we call a Tortie & White.

And yes, what an American would call a Tortie & White, we would also call a Tortie & White.

We use the same term to describe any cat with black, orange, and white anywhere on its body whether in spots or brindled.
post #34 of 51
Here's a simple explanation of a calico as given to me by a cat show Judge:

Imagine a white cat that was splashed with red and black paint from the top. That's a calico.

In other words, only the top parts of the cat should be black and red with or without white, not the bottom part!
post #35 of 51
I forgot to say in my previous post that there's an interesting and nowadays somewhat obscure historical reason for why we don't use the word Calico.

It used to be a derogatory slang term for women of what we would now term the 'nouveau riche', or women of a lower social status trying to act and dress posh, dating from the days when machine-printed fabrics were first available. Wealthy women from the upper classes would wear hand painted or hand embroidered silks, and aspirational women of lower social classes would wear the cheaper machine printed fabric which was called calico - hence these women were dubbed 'Calicos'. Think of Hyacinth Bucket but transported back in time a couple of centuries. It was quite an insult to be called a Calico.
post #36 of 51
So im correct in saying Jazzy is a calico with tabby markings. My god i didnt realise how many different variations of the tri-colour kitties there were!

those dark stripes are present through all the orange patches on her body

mostly white tummy/legs/face


i wont post too many pics, but youve seen in other threads she has just big lumps of orange and black
post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragoriana View Post
So im correct in saying Jazzy is a calico with tabby markings. My god i didnt realise how many different variations of the tri-colour kitties there were!

those dark stripes are present through all the orange patches on her body

i wont post too many pics, but youve seen in other threads she has just big lumps of orange and black
yep, she's like my Java. most red/orange cats have tabby lines, even the ones that are supposed to be solid red... theirs are just fainter & fewer.
post #38 of 51
If the striping is only in the red and not the other color, she would be a calico - not a tabby calico. Almost all red shows stripes. A TORBIE is a tabby cat (brown, silver, blue) that also has red mixed in with the base color.
post #39 of 51
Wow....I didn't realize that there were so many versions of calico/tortie/tabby! I'm guessing that Lexi is a pure calico? Am I correct? She is in my signature, but if you need a different angled picture, let me know.
post #40 of 51
She looks more like a typical calico to me
post #41 of 51
i would so love to learn about gentics and you get loads of good information on this site. but its still so confuseing.
post #42 of 51
Learning and studying genetics is not an overnite process. One of the reasons I got into rexes was that I could learn about genetics and colors. I had Russian Blues - they only come in one color - blue!

So the rexes gave me the chance to learn about color predictions, etc. Once you learn the basics, you can predict the colors you get or it helps you sex kittens (calico - female, etc.). I knew that if I bred a tortie to a black, then any red kittens would be male

I find it fun and interesting. But mother nature still does surprises you can't figure out - like Godiva's Tobie being a chocolate ticked tabby out of a blue and maybe chocolate tabby father - we still don't know (also Tobie's sister being a SILVER).

And my own black/white Ling - she's a genetic impossibility! Born a blue tabby, then changed to blue point tabby, then to seal point blue tabby, and finally the black/white you see. Genetically this was an impossible thing to happen. But it did.
post #43 of 51
does it also depend on there mothers fathers grandmothers ect ect... on what colours the kittens will be , or do you only go by what the mother and father is ?
post #44 of 51
Because there are recessive genes involved, grandparents, etc. CAN play a role in what you get.

I do know (and maybe it was the case with Godiva's cats) that chocolate is recessive. A rex breeder friend got a chocolate rex from a breeding that on the surface was "impossible" - she traced it back EIGHT generations to find that both sides had some chocolate - and it took that long for a recessive gene to show.

Recessive genes are forever

Basically you need to know that mom gives color to both sons and daughters. Fathers can only give color to their daughters.
post #45 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Basically you need to know that mom gives color to both sons and daughters. Fathers can only give color to their daughters.
OK here's an interesting one that maybe you can help explain, because I have a hard time getting my head around it! Radar is black & white the same as his dad, from what I recall he has more white than his dad does. His mum was a red point varient cornish rex, with some white on her toes. His 3 brothers were all black and white but with less white than him, and his 1 sister was I think a solid tortie (it was nap time when we saw them all and we left her to snooze because we wanted a boy, so it's possible she could have had a white belly just that we didn't see it). His mum only had the opportunity to mate with the one male.

Sonic is very easy by comparison, but Radar's colour genetics give me a headache.
post #46 of 51
If there were more then one male that was black/white (like Radar) then mom was not a red point. She HAD to have been a tortie point and there was no black showing. Its possible

The female tortie is correct (black from dad, red from mom). Am willing to bet if you really look at the mom carefully - somewhere there is a black spot - maybe on the toe, maybe on the tail. And probably that black is covered over by the white on the toe! So you would not see the black, but she genetically is a tortie point.

I know its possible because there was an exact case like this of a "red" rex female. She was shown as red tabby - no problem. However, when she was bred to a black male, there was tortie females (correct) and black males! They were shocked - after all she was registered and championed as a red tabby.

So looking very carefully over ever inch of the female, they finally found one tiny spot of black on a toe! Genetically this was a tortie female - not a red tabby. So they had to re-register her as a tortie and she lost the championship title. Because there was not enough black to really look like a tortie, she could not compete as one.

One tortie female I had, was born all black, except for one tiny spot of red near her tail. She later got more red thru the coat but I had marked her as black initially.
post #47 of 51
Thank you, that makes perfect sense! She could quite possibly have had tiny amounts of black in with the red, she looked red to the eye, but I did not go examining her for any tiny black speckles!

Many thanks for that explanation, it has eased my confusion! I'm a bit odd, I can spend ages wondering about things like this I have a fairly good basic understanding of genetic inheritance as I've studied biology at Advanced level, although many years ago and this one was stumping me, but it looks as though the case can now be closed
post #48 of 51
The problem with the bicolor (white) gene is that the white masks the other colors so unless you know the parent's colors you can have anything under the white markings.

Lily (my white rex - Spooky's sister) was an odd-eye white. BUT she really was an odd-eye TORTIE under all that white. Her background was red and black from parents and grandparents. She was also carrying the pointed gene from her grandmother (tortie point).
post #49 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
The problem with the bicolor (white) gene is that the white masks the other colors so unless you know the parent's colors you can have anything under the white markings.

Lily (my white rex - Spooky's sister) was an odd-eye white. BUT she really was an odd-eye TORTIE under all that white. Her background was red and black from parents and grandparents. She was also carrying the pointed gene from her grandmother (tortie point).
I do love the 'randomness' of bicolours. I did want a bicolour oriental, but having talked to oriental breeders who are both for and against, I am unsure about whether it is such a great idea for the breed in the longer term. So I'm a bit of a fence-sitter where that one is concerned, although I do think they are very striking! I do know that if I were ever to have the time, space, and resources to dedicate to breeding (highly unlikely, but I can dream), it would be with a breed with a wide range of colours - just because I find colour genetics so fascinating!
post #50 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
She looks more like a typical calico to me
and a very pretty one - i love her black eye ring!
post #51 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by laureen227 View Post
and a very pretty one - i love her black eye ring!
Awww...thanks She is a total sweetheart, except when she gets in trouble!
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