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Please voice your opinion: Rat Poison and the Recall, a long post - Page 2

post #31 of 52
Oh and I wholeheartedly believe that SOMEONE deliberately tainted that food!!!
post #32 of 52
Well I can't find that link I talked about earlier. Perhaps it was a reporter that reported falsely and the article got changed or something.
post #33 of 52
AT This pt we still dont know if all recalled items are or were affected...
post #34 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats View Post
...Has there been any news about the chinese, and if they have eaten this wheat?
It would be very interesting to find that out, but I doubt we are going to get much info about it from the Chinese government.
post #35 of 52
Thread Starter 
This is something I was discussing with my family earlier. I'm not entirely sure that a.) if it was tainted in China.. that anyone would have a way of knowing that it was headed here for pet food consumption.. or what it's purpose was. Also.. are we completely certain that it's not been used in other things? There doesn't seem to be any issues with any human consumption foods, but I'm waiting to see.
b.) if it was tainted here.. how did they get their hands on it?
post #36 of 52
O.k.--I didn't know this until I read it here. Please forgive me if I'm asking something that's already been explained! If I'm reading some of these posts correctly (correct me if I'm not!), Menu Foods,even though no animals had died, had some reason to suspect a problem. How did they come to that conclusion? Were pets getting sick, but just hadn't died yet? If so, I feel they should have pulled the foods from the shelves, and made a press release; in fact, (in my ignorance) I thought this is what they were doing, until a couple of days ago (when I read about the deaths). Sure, it would have cost them $$$, but it would have looked a heck of a lot better to us pet owners if they played it safe, despite knowing that they'd lose money. Now, if we were talking about, let's say, some prescription drug for humans, we would expect the pharmaceutical company to play it safe. We are talking about lives here, whether human or animal, and that should be enough to warrant a "playing-it-safe" action in both cases. If any company has any reason to suspect their products are hazardous to life, in my mind, they have the responsibility to act immediately, and
not wait for deaths to occur.

If it is true that Menu Foods "sat" on the info for a month, shame on them. If they had done what I described above, I may have considered buying their products after the scare was over, though I usally don't buy any of those products (sometimes, I do, as a treat, or when I have coupons, or donate to a shelter who specifies that they use one of those brands).

And today, I noticed a pouch of the recalled Special Kitty food in my Wal-Mart! I shoved it behind the shelf, so no one would buy it (hubby talked me out of buying it so I could destroy it). I also noticed they had no signs explaining why certain foods were missing. The local Giant did, however.

MargeCat
post #37 of 52
I feel that (myself included) we are getting a bit too panicked about this whole situation, and that panic is leading us to (blindly?) blame the company for what has happened. It's a horrible situation and I couldn't feel any worse for the poor animals who have/will die because of this, but I don't feel that blaming anyone and everyone and seeking to put Menu Foods out of business is a constructive way of dealing with this situation.

Seeking to blame Menu Foods is, in my opinion, irrelevant and counterproductive. I feel that more energy should be put into identifying where things went wrong in the chain of events and preventing something like this from ever happening again. I think it's a sad statement to make, but businesses will try to take advantage of situations wherever possible to make a profit, and therefore it is possible that Menu Foods tried to cover up what they knew. And if they didn't, in this particular case, you can sure bet someone else will someday.

Is that an abhorrant thought? Absolutely. Therefore I believe it's more important to ensure regulations are put into place whereby something like this cannot happen again, so that there will be nothing to "cover up."
post #38 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cinder View Post
Truthfully, I don't want any petfood made even in part with products imported from China. I suppose that's a whole 'nother thread though.

It's a wakeup call, that's for certain.
I couldn't agree more with you. I try my best to not buy items made/manufactured/or anything of that nature from Communist countries, especially China. I do not believe in supporting that type of system and as a consumer i have the choice to decide where and what i spend my money on. My money will not support communism!

Quote:
Originally Posted by littleraven7726 View Post
i couldn't have said it better.

me too. i totally agree. they knew for a month and said nothing. i have no confidence in their foods anymore.
This is exactly why I will not purchase any items from this company ever again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats View Post
My belief is that if a certain product is banned from use in the USA such as the rat poison that was sited, than any products or produce from a country that does not excercise the same standards, should not be permitted for import here. Especially foodstuffs. How much of this questionable wheat is in other food stuffs. How many people in China have been affected by this?

I am sure our farmers are happy to see companies importing wheat product from china. It is so scary. I want to know where everything comes from now, and science diet is on the list of recalled products.
Very well spoken I couldn't agree more gail!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Epona View Post
The reason that any company would source an ingredient from overseas when there is plenty of that same product being produced locally, is due to reduced labour costs in other countries.

Don't ever forget that corporations and businesses do not exist solely to provide a service, they exist to make a profit. If they do not make a profit, then they fail. One way of making a profit is to import goods that are produced cheaply because the standard of living and average wage in their country of origin is lower and makes those goods cheaper.

Yes the company behind this is at fault. They were protecting their profit margin and putting beloved pets at risk as a result. They are only in existance because of their profit.
You've pointed out some excellent facts. I definitely agree with you on these. Menu was definitely in it for the money- not the "love of animals" That company infuriates me.
post #39 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargeCat View Post
And today, I noticed a pouch of the recalled Special Kitty food in my Wal-Mart! I shoved it behind the shelf, so no one would buy it (hubby talked me out of buying it so I could destroy it). MargeCat
Wow! PLEASE call the store and tell the manager what you found ASAP. The store clerks will probably not read the date when he/she puts it back on the shelf.
post #40 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
And tobacco companies have been killing people for years. They sat on that information for many, many, many long years. How is this any different?
1) Just because tobacco companies got away with it doesn't mean Menu Foods should. Besides, I believe everyone who currently smokes knows the risks.
2) As someone else said, humans have choices. Pets eat what you put in front of them.
3) Humans buy food for their pets for the nutritional value. The same food that we believe is keeping our pets healthy can kill them.

I think theres a HUGE difference - just MHO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Momofmany View Post
It really sucks that this has happened, and the voice of the people will hopefully drive Menu out of business. We have a choice to stop buying these products. I see a lot of hysteria going on and the truth will out over time.
I agree 100% with all of that, except maybe the hysteria is warranted. I don't THINK I fed any contaminated food to my cats. Just the idea of it makes me heartsick. I am close to tears right now just thinking about people's pets.
post #41 of 52
I understand that Menu Foods didn't want to recall products before they were sure, but why couldn't they volunteer to publicize that they MAY be contaminated? People could have held onto the pet food in question until they KNEW. IF it was determined that they were unsafe the recall could then take place. Sure, it would have been difficult. Sure, it may not have been done before. IT WOULD HAVE SAVED LIVES! I, for one, would have respected Menu Foods for trying their best to keep our loved ones safe!
post #42 of 52
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargeCat View Post
O.k.--I didn't know this until I read it here. Please forgive me if I'm asking something that's already been explained! If I'm reading some of these posts correctly (correct me if I'm not!), Menu Foods,even though no animals had died, had some reason to suspect a problem. How did they come to that conclusion? Were pets getting sick, but just hadn't died yet? If so, I feel they should have pulled the foods from the shelves, and made a press release; in fact, (in my ignorance) I thought this is what they were doing, until a couple of days ago (when I read about the deaths). Sure, it would have cost them $$$, but it would have looked a heck of a lot better to us pet owners if they played it safe, despite knowing that they'd lose money. Now, if we were talking about, let's say, some prescription drug for humans, we would expect the pharmaceutical company to play it safe. We are talking about lives here, whether human or animal, and that should be enough to warrant a "playing-it-safe" action in both cases. If any company has any reason to suspect their products are hazardous to life, in my mind, they have the responsibility to act immediately, and not wait for deaths to occur.

If it is true that Menu Foods "sat" on the info for a month, shame on them. If they had done what I described above, I may have considered buying their products after the scare was over, though I usally don't buy any of those products (sometimes, I do, as a treat, or when I have coupons, or donate to a shelter who specifies that they use one of those brands).

And today, I noticed a pouch of the recalled Special Kitty food in my Wal-Mart! I shoved it behind the shelf, so no one would buy it (hubby talked me out of buying it so I could destroy it). I also noticed they had no signs explaining why certain foods were missing. The local Giant did, however.

MargeCat
Well, I haven't seen many others stating that they've known for a month besides me. Now.. I will tell you where I heard it.. I saw it on my local newstation, on a report on the food recall, and my mother also heard the same thing on a new report in Pittsburgh. (I'm in the DC metro area.) Now, I do not know if we watched the same newscast or not, and I have not seen it reported that way anywhere else that I can recall, in any news articles. Unfortunately, I have not seen any other "special reports" or press conferences because I'm either asleep or at work. I have seen others state that they'd read that it was six weeks, or some other unreasonable amount of time.

I would think, though, that they would have to have known this for awhile, given that they had to go through a testing process which I'm sure is not routine, on their laboratory animals. They would have had to had some reason to suspect this, then run at least one test for results, and I think normally this would be more like 2 or 3 test environments to get the best possible conclusion.. so, let's say.. even if they only did one "test environment".. They would have had to have a heads up, (which probably means consumers calling them with potential problems), set up a test environment, run a test (2-3 days, a week?), see if the animals are affected (another day to a week, depending on how quickly the animal reacts and then dies from it?)..and then they would have run tests on the animals after death to see if it was from the food. And, that would only be if they ran one test.

Exactly, I think they should have just simply said "we're not sure about this, let's put a hold on the food until we know more. Then if we find something, we'll do an actual recall."

And I'm with you. I would have bought the recalled food just to pitch it, or at least taken it to the store manager and thrown a fit.. probably threatened to hold them responsible for vet bills.. (things that would cost them money seem to make a difference).
post #43 of 52
Thread Starter 
As Rockcat said.. and I'm in the same situation.. there were a few shorts days when I wasn't *sure* if my cats might have had a packet or two of the foods, well, a bite or two, because..they're snobs and didn't eat what may or may not have been a contaminated set of food.. so I'm operating purely from overwhelming empathy for all the animals affected. My precious four-footers are safe, and I am so thankful for that. Now, I would be even more infuriated and passionate/hysterical than I currently am if my babies were in danger. But I have to say, what I'm feeling is a very calm fury.

I also agree that I would have had a lot more respect and trust in a company that put their customer's, and more importantly their customer's four-footed families ahead of what they ultimately knew was going to become public knowledge, instead of trying to keep it under wraps. It's decisively and inescapably dispicable on the part of the companies. I still stand by Trader Joe's for doing the right thing and pulling their food until they know more..their's wasn't even on recall.
post #44 of 52
I guess my feeling is that this is what we get when we demand that food cost 29 cents a can or whatever and be available everywhere, anytime. Same goes for human food, and it's been seen that the same thing will happen there.

The company is a company. They will do whatever they can to simultaneously turn a profit and satisfy its customers (whilst drawing new ones in). Outsourcing the production of materials to a country without the standards we have helps the company achieve their goal of having prolific, mass-proudced and CHEAP foods while still creating a hefty bottom line.

I don't know, though, It IS shady that the info isn't out there and easily accessible for us to access and then make the choice for ourselves. Do we accept lower standards and shady business practices in exchange for a 50 cent can of food that wil be ever-available and the same everywhere, everytime? Or do we demand a pricier food that is locally operated and has better manufacturing processes but may not be as readily available?
post #45 of 52
Thread Starter 
Personally, I've opted for the high maintanence route, along with the expensive route. Innova Evo dry.. for the two not on raw.. which says they use human grade ingredients.. and two on raw (which is actually cheaper than wet food, or Evo dry for that matter).. but takes a lot of preparation, freezer space, and some maintanence (probably only slightly more than feeding wet food at feeding time).. but.. they're all in good health and they've got beautiful coats.. and it's certainly an improvement over how they were before.. well, that is to say that you can see a definite improvement in their coats, and tons less dandruff. Oh, and overall the litter boxes (although changed frequently.. I try to do it daily but sometimes it will go two or three days without a scooping depending on how slammed at work I am..).. have little to no smell unless someone *just* pottied in it.

I'm darned lucky that I got Joyeux in December and that she came on the raw diet. That put everything on the path to raw..so I managed to miss the wet foods for the most part (and fortunately it's made them little snobs about wet food.. they won't eat it).
post #46 of 52
No more canned here ... at least for a long time... since many of the small outfits( if you can call something national that) are not avail or it is a flavor or two ....
post #47 of 52
Thread Starter 
Well, I've been hesitantly feeding Meow Mix packets/tubs.. but, only as long as they needed medicated and now it's just sitting around.. but I do need to be getting them on a raw diet, so I may have to start feeding that and sheeba again.
post #48 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by lionessrampant View Post
Do we accept lower standards and shady business practices in exchange for a 50 cent can of food that wil be ever-available and the same everywhere, everytime? Or do we demand a pricier food that is locally operated and has better manufacturing processes but may not be as readily available?
Good points (in the whole post, not just the bit I'm quoting here). Personally, I'm willing to pay more money for better food that can be, occasionally, harder to get my hands on. I know what goes in it, I know where it's made, and I know my vet approves of it (and not just because her office is being paid to sell it).

I think part of the problem is, though, that for a number of these brands people are paying more money with the expectation that these foods will be safer and better, and that the standards will be higher. It's hard to reconcile the notion that the "best food available" might also be made by companies that seek to cut production costs by buying from countries with lower standards. I think people are also finding themselves unpleasantly surprised to realize that their high-end, pricy cat/dog food is being made in the same plant as the low-grade cheap stuff we turn our noses up at. The products are different, but ... not different enough, apparently.
post #49 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargeCat View Post
O.k.--I didn't know this until I read it here. Please forgive me if I'm asking something that's already been explained! If I'm reading some of these posts correctly (correct me if I'm not!), Menu Foods,even though no animals had died, had some reason to suspect a problem. How did they come to that conclusion? Were pets getting sick, but just hadn't died yet? If so, I feel they should have pulled the foods from the shelves, and made a press release; in fact, (in my ignorance) I thought this is what they were doing, until a couple of days ago (when I read about the deaths). Sure, it would have cost them $$$, but it would have looked a heck of a lot better to us pet owners if they played it safe, despite knowing that they'd lose money. Now, if we were talking about, let's say, some prescription drug for humans, we would expect the pharmaceutical company to play it safe. We are talking about lives here, whether human or animal, and that should be enough to warrant a "playing-it-safe" action in both cases. If any company has any reason to suspect their products are hazardous to life, in my mind, they have the responsibility to act immediately, and
not wait for deaths to occur.

If it is true that Menu Foods "sat" on the info for a month, shame on them. If they had done what I described above, I may have considered buying their products after the scare was over, though I usally don't buy any of those products (sometimes, I do, as a treat, or when I have coupons, or donate to a shelter who specifies that they use one of those brands).

And today, I noticed a pouch of the recalled Special Kitty food in my Wal-Mart! I shoved it behind the shelf, so no one would buy it (hubby talked me out of buying it so I could destroy it). I also noticed they had no signs explaining why certain foods were missing. The local Giant did, however.

MargeCat

Update: The pouch of Special Kitty has been found, and destroyed--by me! I found it on Wal-Mart's shelf, bought it, and took it home, and trashed it. I did this, as I was afraid they'd re-shelve it. I'm posting this, as someone here suggested that I do something about it.

MargeCat
post #50 of 52
I don't really know what my opinion is. I am just heartsick about all of this. I was just on another animal forum I look at and the people that posted of their beloved cats dying of renal failure that fed these pouches was just heart rending. I think there are more deaths than what was reported. Alot more. I had to leave that forum I was crying. The recall didn't effect me but I really want them to find out exactly how this happened whether it was rat poison or plastic or whatever and find a way that this will not happen again.

Tricia
post #51 of 52
Thread Starter 
They have now found that there is another toxin in the food, as well as the rat poison.. the toxin (and unfortunately I can't remember what it was but it started with an M...) is used as a pesticide. Also.. and this wasn't on the news that I'm aware of but when I took my two post surgery four-footers in for their post-surgery check up... the vet said that the wheat was indeed purchased for human consumption as well. So, I'm sure it's on the news somewhere or maybe not yet, but I would imagine that the vets are informed by different sources than we are? Of course, they might have just seen something I didn't...but it's a heads up to everyone to watch out for wheat gluten human products too.
post #52 of 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by MargeCat View Post
Update: The pouch of Special Kitty has been found, and destroyed--by me! I found it on Wal-Mart's shelf, bought it, and took it home, and trashed it. I did this, as I was afraid they'd re-shelve it. I'm posting this, as someone here suggested that I do something about it.

MargeCat
Thank you, MargeCat!
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