CRF - Chronic Renal Failure:links and experiences with

Originally Posted by Namrah

Just to follow up on my postings, the vet e-mailed me the numbers for Mali's recent blood-work (Tuesday):



She is on Ursodial til I talk to her specialist - her liver crashed a few months ago but has been solid for a month now, so we're weaning her off the liver meds and getting her on more kidney support.

Just reading this email exhausts me, and the numbers aren't new, Mali has had problems for 2 years now, though her diagnosis is more recent.

Is my vet accurate in that this may not be CRF yet, but just kidney insufficiency? Am I just best to wait til I get to Oregon and get other opinions?

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I am not a vet, nor a vet tech, but according to everything I know and have experienced with more than 1 crf kitty, yes, this is crf when you have a bun in the 80's and a creatine over 4.
Please read this:
http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis.h...hemistry_panel and then see the table with lab value ranges at the bottom of the page.

Actually, a creatinine of 4.3 and BUN of 82 is definitely renal failure....and fairly significant renal failure. With renal numbers this high (don't be scared...I've seen higher), you need to really make sure that her phosphorus levels are below 4, and that her serum potassium (K+) is within normal range. You also need to have her blood pressure checked, because at this point, she could be starting to have bloodpressure issues. The other thing that needs to be checked is her hemoglobin and hematocrit. As the kidneys fail, they also start losing the ability to secrete the hormone that stimulates the bone marrow to make red blood cells. This is a treatable condition, but needs to be caught before it becomes a critical problem.

I don't want to frighten you. My parents cat, Samson, lived for about 4 1/2 years post diagnosis with creatinine that ranged from 3.3 to 4.3. However, he did need quite a few different medications, sub-Q fluids, and phosphorus binders added to his food. He also Epogen shots for the last year of his life to treat his critical anemia. I've been treating my CRF Cleo for over 6 1/2 years (medications and sub-Q fluids.) There is lots of hope, and you've come to the right place for support, info, and friendship!

Good luck!

Pookie & the girls

Originally Posted by Namrah

Just to follow up on my postings, the vet e-mailed me the numbers for Mali's recent blood-work (Tuesday):



She is on Ursodial til I talk to her specialist - her liver crashed a few months ago but has been solid for a month now, so we're weaning her off the liver meds and getting her on more kidney support.

Just reading this email exhausts me, and the numbers aren't new, Mali has had problems for 2 years now, though her diagnosis is more recent.

Is my vet accurate in that this may not be CRF yet, but just kidney insufficiency? Am I just best to wait til I get to Oregon and get other opinions?

Click to expand...

Thank you again to everyone for your comments. Mali's specialist has said it's renal failure; it's an interesting situation - my vet, whom I love, is an eternal optimist - the specialist is a pessimist. The specialist has said I have a few months, 1-2 years maximum with Mali; whereas my vet tries to keep things hopeful.

But given the reading I've done, my specialists comments (which matches the reading, other than the maximum timeframes) and information presented here - I sometimes wonder if my vet is not just trying to keep me going, but is just under-experienced with this.

Anyhow, they're not opened on the weekend, so on Monday I will call and fill in the missing values. I was told her phosphorous is totally normal, but not given a number, so I don't know if it's under 4. Those other values I am not sure of either, and those numbers will help ascertain if she is suffering other side effects.

If I may pose another question - this is partially stress on my part. Mali has blood work coming up in 2 weeks due to this recent rise in her lab values, and testing a new medication. I am wondering how critical her situation is right now. I want to get a second opinion on her, get her to another doctor - and I have to, because of the cross-country move. That happens in a month; am I safe in attempting to stabilize her now and work on more maintenance changes after the move, with a new vet and specialist? Obviously she's still under the care of my current vet, and we're trying to get those values down.

I have one other question - can Mali survive this move? The move involves an overnight in NY after a 3 hour drive to NY. Then the next morning around 6am she and my other cat will be put into separate carriers, and a friend and I will fly with them out to Portland - in the cabin, of course. We'll land and I'll go get the keys for my apartment and let them go into the master bath, with water and a litter-box, then feed them when things have settled down a bit, as well as SubQ fluids. It is possible that the cats will be carrierd for up to 12 hours, and a minimum of 10. Is this a crazy thing to do with a CRF cat that is relapsing with high lab numbers? Can she survive this kind of trip, or am I putting her through this stress only to watch the inevitable decline after?

I do not want to give up on her - and to anyone watching, she looks and acts like a perfect, healthy bengal. But I don't want to stress her out for two days when it's impossible to get through this. I don't know what the other options are - the move is not really optional for me.

I've read the article on managing CRF cats on the plane - she doesn't urinate overly often yet so I'm not worried about a mess. I am worried about her stress and if she can survive this trip, recover and thrive on the other end; or if I am putting her through this for even more suffering where there's no hope of getting her stabilized on the other end. I am utterly committed to trying if it's not cruel to do so.

I'm a member of numerous CRF support groups, my vet is a personal friend, I'm a nurse and I've done plenty of research on CRF. One of the things that I've read over and over during my 8 or 9 years of CRF research (I lost my soul-mate kitty, Spooky, to CRF too) is that it is most important to treat the cat and not the numbers. If Mali is eating, peeing, pooping, playing and enjoying life....it doesn't matter a bit what her 'numbers' are! She's feeling good. She deserves all the work and time and worry (sorry...worry is one of the main things!) that you can put into her care.

I personally believe that, yes, there will be stress in the move.....but yes, she can survive it with little consequence if things are done to lessen it. I honestly think that flying her to Portland would be much less stressful than making a cross country drive. I think the 'Traveling With A CRF Cat' article gives you a lot of good advice, that you should be able to pick and choose from. Just driving the 100+ miles to take Cleo to Michigan State University, I used some of those hints. I sprayed her carrier with Feliway spray and rubbed Bach Flower Essences on her ears every 1/2 hour to try to help keep her stress down.

Please don't become discouraged. In the many years that I've been dealing with CRF, and researching CRF, I've seen kitties with MUCH higher numbers, not just survive...but thrive. Once you get her through the move, you just need to find a good vet who will help you be proactive in treating this disease aggressively. Here's another link to CRF recommended vets (similar to the one you posted earlier.) http://members.verizon.net/~vze2r6qt/vets/index.html I think both of your vets are doing you a bit of a dis-service trying to place a number on the months or years that you have left with Mali. It's so hard to know. My vet told me at diagnosis, that I'd probably have 5 years with Cleo. She celebrated her 7th birthday in May, and her numbers are stable, she's fat, happy and healthy (even with CRF) and I fully believe I will have many more years with her.

I don't know if you are a member of the Feline-CRF-Support site on Yahoo!groups. I highly recommend joining. It's free to join, and you can post lots of questions that the group will answer for you. They might be able to give you other options for travelling with Mali, as there are currently well over 8000 members, all who have experience with CRF and are caring and compassionate people. I'm going to shamelessly plug my essay again, because it has tons of great resource links that you may find useful, as well as other Yahoo!groups for CRF that you can join too.
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=119727 (It's the 4th post down)

Hugs to you and Mali!

Pookie & the girls

Thank you, Pookie --

I live in a lovely, lovely area in Mass that happens to be very far away from any decent airport. My folks live in NY and have agreed to let me, my friend, and my cats overnight there then take us to the airport. It also happens to be the only airport with non-stop, morning flights.

So they're going to have to do 3hours in the carrier, but will have at least 15 hours overnight to stretch, relax, etc. Then 10-12 hours on the plane. My father had wanted to do a massive cross-country drive which I would have done if the cats hadn't been part of the equation. =)

I have spray Feliway here and will have plugin units there, and have already started contacting vets - thank you for that other link! I also have the link to ACVIM to locate a specialist in that area, so hopefully I can find vets more familiar in dealing with this particular issue.

I really wish I had looked for more support when Mali was first diagnosed.

I think that you're right, I have to look at Mali the way she acts, not what the labs say; but those can be watched so that the first symptoms aren't reflective of critical numbers.

You've given me a lot of hope, I think I have a solid plan to deal with this move in less than perfect circumstances. A good friend of mine is coming from St. Louis to Mass to help me pack, drive, and to be a cat carrier on the plane (one per carrier, one carrier per person) so that my babies are never out of my site. Today I'm picking up harnesses to get them used to that since they'll come out of the carriers for security inspections. I am hopeful that I can have that done in some backroom - less traffic is going to be less stress.

Also, my vet recommended starting to use Rescue Remedy immediately for them, in their water. Unfortunately Mali only drinks from a running faucet - the bathtub; but I'm sure I can work something out there. I'll have their SubQ fluids and needles waiting on the other end and have no check-in luggage, all to minimize the time this will take.

But now I also have the really important thing - hope - that Mali is strong enough to make this trip and recover on the other end. That was the big question, and if I can keep her acting normally until the trip, then I also think I can get her through this. And she'll have her second best friend with her, too. The two cats are inseparable and I'd have them in the same carrier if it were permissible.

Thank you again, everyone. I have joined those support groups at Yahoo, as well, and already find them invaluable from just reading.

I will see you on one of those lists I am glad to see you feeling more hope.

On an off-topic, you are moving to such a lovely area of the country. I love driving down to the tillamook area of OR as it reminds me so much of central NY where I grew up.

And the coast is just gorgeous in Or and WA

I had a cat that I picked up from the road now 26 years ago! And she only passed away a few months ago & you wouldn't believe how badly she had been hit by a car. Lost an eye broke her jaw & spent 3 months in the RSPCA hosp. Still have no idea how old she was then as I tried to find her owners & because of her behaviour came to the conclusion she was feral.

Anyway from that point on she had a good life. & as you can see lived a very long life, as you can (according to the vets) add between 3 & 6 years to that 26!

This last year due to her toileting habits, I decided she had renal failure. Took her to the vet (as dad is 81 & on a pension) Me disabled & on a miserable pension, you can understand we head for the vets with trepidation!

Well the bill ended up near £7oo over a few months & crippled us. The vet kept saying that the bloods revealed NO KIDNEY PROBLEMS! Four times we re-assessed the blood work. It showed an ELEVATED WHITE CELL COUNT but nothing else. All this time she was drinking "for England" & peeing the same. I know she had serious renal failure.

By the time I decided to side step the vets & get on line to see what I could do myself to ease her suffering, it was too late. I had called my father to tell him that we needed to organize to be able to re-hydrate her (which apparently you can do subcutaneous) She sadly passed away a few hours before I got back home, which was so sad. I do wish I had been with her, but she hated my flat & was happy where she was at my fathers house & although I wanted her with me I felt it wrong to move her from home so unwell. However seems I can never get it right, I just didn't get back on time.

I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD GIVE THIS WARNING. IF YOU ARE SURE YOUR CAT HAS ALL THE SYMPTOMS OF RENAL FAILURE.....DON'T RELY ON THE BLOOD OR VETS DIAGNOSIS, DO WHAT YOU CAN REGARDLESS AS IT IS OBVIOUS THESE TESTS ARE NOT FULL PROOF!

In actual fact my father is on dialysis 3 days a week after total renal failure. It was exactly the same, for 6 years they said there was nothing wrong! Then his kidneys totally failed & we were told "HAD WE CAUGHT IT EARLIER THERE WAS A POSSIBILITY THEY MAY HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SAVE ONE!"

We love our animals & know when something is wrong...so trust your own instincts & if your not getting the results you expect then act on your own gut feelings.

Hope this may help the suffering of a few of your beloved pets.

Chastelaine

Thank you for sharing your beloved girl's story with us Chastelaine.
You are right....
if our gut is telling us something is not right, trust those feelings.
I hope that when you are ready, you post a tribute to her in the Bridge thread.

Hello all. I've lurked this board for while now and unfortunately, I'm making my first post in this thread because we have a kitty who was diagnosed today with CRF. Well, the preliminary results say that's what it is anyway.

We brought him into the vet this morning because the past few days he hasn't been himself. At first we thought that it was an upset stomach due to a recent food change. Last night it became apparent that we were wrong. He became very lethargic. He stopped eating yesterday morning but was drinking a TON of water and I KNEW that wasn't a good sign.

So this morning we took him to the vet and an hour ago we got the call...renal failure. He'll be in the vet's office for a few days getting IV fluids. I'm trying to wrap my head around this but I just don't know where to start. I'm feeling guilty because this is obviously something that's been going on for awhile and I didn't notice anything until it became critical.

I guess we just need to wait and see how the next few days unfold. God, this is torture.

Hi Dez,

I'm sorry for your news. I hope you have your kitty home soon, and that you will find it is early renal failure. Do take some time to read the first messages in this thread - a lot of information and links are there, and it will help.

If you feel like it, you can post lab results here, or just post any questions you have, observations about your kitty in the upcoming days.

More than a couple of us have or are currently living with kitties who have either chronic renal failure or PKD (polycystic kidney disease) which leads to renal failure.

I am so sorry to hear about your kitty but please know that you are not alone with this....

As Pat suggested....
read this thread, follow the suggested site links...
you will find a lot of info.

What is your kitty's name?
Please keep us updated.

His name is Tiger. He was a shelter kitty that we got a year and a half ago on Christmas Eve. He was supposed to be put to sleep on Christmas Day because the shelter staff deemed him unadoptable due to his age (he was 10 at the time) and the fact that he wouldn't let them near him. He would scratch and hiss every time they came close. Hell, they were afraid to change his litter box! Margie picked him up, put him in the carrier and brought him home. He has turned out to be the sweetest cat I have ever met. He's a big cuddly lap cat.

I don't know...it just feels like we haven't had enough time with him to go through this. We're all afraid for him right now. Thanks so much for the kind thoughts and to Pat for the gift. That was sweet. I just can't bear to think of him being in pain.

Originally Posted by Dez

His name is Tiger. He was a shelter kitty that we got a year and a half ago on Christmas Eve. He was supposed to be put to sleep on Christmas Day because the shelter staff deemed him unadoptable due to his age (he was 10 at the time) and the fact that he wouldn't let them near him. He would scratch and hiss every time they came close. Hell, they were afraid to change his litter box! Margie picked him up, put him in the carrier and brought him home. He has turned out to be the sweetest cat I have ever met. He's a big cuddly lap cat.

I don't know...it just feels like we haven't had enough time with him to go through this. We're all afraid for him right now. Thanks so much for the kind thoughts and to Pat for the gift. That was sweet. I just can't bear to think of him being in pain.

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Welcome to the CRF club... It is one of the worst days of your life but trust me there is LOTS of hope... My Kandie made it over four yrs past diagnosis and she was stage 2 at diagnoisis...

BIG

What a wonderful story of love.
Tiger will be in my thoughts and prayers.
Here are some calming vibes for you too.
Tiger

Thank you all so much. I've been printing out information like a madwoman and we're going through it all together. It's going to be a long night, but from what we've put together considering the numbers the vet gave and the information we've looked over so far, it doesn't seem as hopeless as it did 4 hours ago.

You guys are awesome. I'm so grateful for all the information/experiences that you've made available.

My thoughts are with Tiger this morning.

Well, we got the official blood work back. He's stage 4. I went and visited with him this morning for awhile. He still has the IV in. He doesn't feel nearly as bony as he did yesterday and his coat is much smoother. He still isn't eating anything but he's drinking a ton of water and urinating a lot. His eyes are still glassy and he's not making eye contact. He purred when I pet him. I gave him lots of kisses and a pep talk, telling him that he needs to get better so that he can come home. I was rambling on about what a strong boy he is and how he's great he's doing and how I know he's hurting but he'll make it through. He seemed to like that (or I want to think he did). They had him on the dog side of the operation, which confused me until I realized that his cage is right on front of the main entryway and he's there so they can see him frequently, but he didn't seem to be bothered by all of the barking.

The vet recommended that we keep him there on IV for two more days. They want to do more blood work tomorrow night so they can see where his numbers are. If all goes well, the vet said we can bring him home on Thursday afternoon.

Unfortunately, the guilt and fear are eating away at my neighbor. She's been lashing out all day...at me. I called her like I promised I would when I got back from the vet's office today to read off the numbers to her. She didn't handle it well. She went from "It's not too bad, he'll be ok" to "I'm going to get him euthanized and not tell you until it's done" in two seconds flat. I told her that wouldn't be fair and that we should sit down and talk out our options before making a decision (last night I did offer to help her financially with the expenses his illness has/will incur...this was one of her main concerns). She told me that it's HER cat and she'll make the decision herself.

I mean, I understand how afraid she is, but I don't understand why she is lashing out at me instead of leaning on me. I've taken care of this cat (as well as her other two) for her when she's been out of town so many times. She is supposed to go out of town next week and WHEN Tiger gets home, we both know that she won't trust anybody but me with his care.

I'm just totally heartbroken about the entire situation.



Edited to add:

His BUN: 201
Creatinine: 8.4
Phosphorus: 13.7

Comments on these numbers is more than welcomed.

Well, we've all managed to get over the shock/fear and talk things out, so the mood is much calmer here. I went to visit with Tiger today. When he saw me he gave me one of his infamous "hello" meows. After 3 days of IV treatment he looks a bit better. His eyes aren't glassy, his coat is much smoother and he isn't as bony as he was. He did eat a few bites of food off of a tongue depressor they gave me. His numbers are looking better.

BUN: 120
Creatinine: 6.2

We're going to keep him at the vet's on an IV for a couple more days. They will do more bloodwork Saturday morning and if the numbers improve further, we will be able to bring him home in the afternoon.

Poor guy. I'm glad he's feeling better, though!

Sending him chin skritches, and wishing him continued improvement and stabilization.