CRF - Chronic Renal Failure:links and experiences with

Originally Posted by xocats

I am moving on the 1st of June but as soon as I am settled, I will be back to this important thread for support and to offer support.

Lots of calm, healing, healthy vibes to all CRF kitties and their loving guardians.

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Ditto that! I send love to you all! Bobbie

Here's two links (one for canned food, one for dry food) that list many commercial cat foods, as well as commercial renal diets, into DMA (dry matter analysis) percentages for protein and phosphorus content. Using DMA is the only accurate way to compare actual foods to each other, because 'as fed' or 'guaranteed analysis' doesn't take into consideration the amount of water in each food.

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canfood.htm

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/dryfood.htm

My cat Duncan (a wee bit over a month shy of being 19), has renal problems. (I say "renal problems" because last it was actually given a name, which was over 2 years ago, the ER vet referred to it as pre-renal disease. His last several bloodtests have shown that his BUN and CREA levels to be considerably lower than when he was diagnosed, and were even within the normal range, so I don't know what stage it would technically be considered at this point.)

He is on Phenobarbital for epilepsy, KD soft and hard food, Felovite 2 vitamins, water through the mouth via syringe, and Enulose (spelling?) which is for his hard stools. He recently had 2 Enemas for severe constipation (both given within 24 hours since he was very badly clogged since his body had sucked all the water out of his poo causing him to get backed up), Baytil (given for a few days after the enema), and Laxatone (laxative.) The enemas were given I think about 15 days ago, (sorry, very sleep deprived right now, hard to think straight.). After returning from the enemas, he seemed very weak and wasn't eating much, so after 2 or 3 days I started blending the KD canned with water and feeding him via syringe (by mouth) since he already willingly takes his water that way. For several days he seemed to plump up and looked stronger. He hadn't pooed in over a week since the day he returned from the enema, so last Saturday we took him back in to the vet. He felt his insides and said that there was nothing in there. I asked why and he said that was because of the liquid diet, nothing to worry about.

Thursday he did a small pee in the morning. He seemed like he wanted to do more, but nothing came out. Later in the afternoon he felt very light, and was rather "floppy", not walking, and out of it. The vet was gone for the day, but the nurse was still there and said she could check him out and give him fluids. She gave him sub-cutanous fluids, and said he likely only had hours to live. After a few hours of "convincing" I finally got mom to take him to the pet hospital, where we were charged $115 to be told that the bare minimum they recommended would be stay overnight with IV fluids for over $1000. They ideally wanted him to stay 3+ days. Unfortunately, this was way beyond what I could spend so we took him back home.

He managed to make it through the night. Our vet was called at his other office (he has two branches), and the situation was explained, and we asked if he could do an IV fluid. He said to stop by our normal office (which doesn't have hours on Friday.) at 2:45 PM and he'd check him out. He said his heart was beating strong and healthy, he was so dehydrated that his body sucked up the pee out of his bladder, and was even sucking the water out of the muscles in his legs, then he gave him another sub-cutanous fluids, and a shot (can't remember it's name, but he said that's supposed to kick-start his motabolysm [spelling?]), and to come back in tomorrow at 11am. With any luck the shot will have helped him become stronger, and he'd give him some more. If now, he'd have bloodwork done to see if there's any other options that could give him more time with a good quality of life. If not...well...I'd rather not go into that...

Is there any thing you guys can suggest that would help him live longer and have a good quality of life, or should I just enjoy what's likely my last few hours with him? [Why must this happen so close to my birthday? ]

to quote Pat on this site treat the cat NOT the numbers...

Is your kitty reacting to you like normal ???

He will tell you when to stop.I didnt beleive that but it is so true ...... I just lost one three weeks ago to CRF ... If you need to talk cry I am a Pm away

When he's awake, he'll look at us, if he's feeling a bit strong try to reach for us with a front paw, if he succeeds, he'll often latch on to the person's shirt, or he'll curl a paw around a person's finger. If I lay my hand/arm against his head, neck, or back, I can feel him softly vibrating (silently purring). Before this he'd do the purr thing as I just described, he liked putting his paw and/or head against a person's chest or limb/s. Is this what you mean by reacting to you like normal?

Originally Posted by AlysBrangwin

Is this what you mean by reacting to you like normal?

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Imagine yourself in Duncan's place....
what might you want if you were him.
What is best for him?

My thoughts are with you.
May calmness, love and peace be your guide.
Duncan

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I just lost one three weeks ago to CRF"
I just now learned about your loss.
I am so sorry.
RIP Kandie

Since I wrote that he started perking up more, moving his head, yawing, moving limbs, and purring, but was still on the weak side (not able to walk yet or anything, but alot better than he has been.). I don't know what to do. I want my Duncan back more than anything.

Originally Posted by AlysBrangwin

Since I wrote that he started perking up more, moving his head, yawing, moving limbs, and purring, but was still on the weak side (not able to walk yet or anything, but alot better than he has been.). I don't know what to do. I want my Duncan back more than anything.

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It is so hard to let go...
Savor every precious moment you have with your beloved boy...
You both will be in my prayers.

He's at home with us now. He's had a 3rd sub-cute treatment. The blood work showed that his BUN was slightly high (42, normal range is 1-36), his CREA was average (1.3mg normal range is 0.8-2.4 The vet said that's because he hasn't eaten in a few days due to the fluids.), his Glucose was rather high (281mg normal range is 71-159 The vet said it could be from the Enulose, so if it's diabetes, we won't know yet until that's completely out of his system.), and he's having enema problems (HCT is 19.4% normal range is 24-45%, HGB is 6.3g normal range is 8-15 , He said maybe go to ER every week to get blood every week, at $400-600 a pop, but we don't have the funds for that.).

He said that if he starts perking up we can go to the office every 3 days, pop in, get the sub-cutes, get out, for $10 a visit, but if he isn't able to start walking on his own, there's not much point in doing that.

He's more wide eyed and alert. He even let go a little poo and wee shortly after coming home, and recently threw up some water, but he's not looking like a wrung out dishtowel now, and is making more of an effort to try and move. He even started moving his tail, which has been a rarity as of late. He seems to start feeling better at late night, so I'm assuming how things go tonight will be very telling as to what options are available to us...

Your love is so strong....
Duncan does not want to leave you....
Have a good night.

Blood weekly seems a bit odd,...

You can learn to do fluids at home ...

I will say both CRF and Diabetes can be managed .... HUGS to all of you

xocats- Thanks... (Sorry I'm getting whiny, I haven't slept or held down food and liquids at all since this started getting bad.)

sharky - Any idea what other sort of treatments can be done, or anything else that could be done/used to help keep up his strength until Monday when vet offices are opened since even calling the Emergency Clinc to see if there's anything could be done was pointless (they wouldn't comment, and seeing how we wasted $115 on Thursday there, another $115 just isn't plausible unless it's an absolute necessity.)

How would I get the fluids to do it at home? Is the once every 3 days he recommended not enough?

So you think also think diabetes is more likely than just temporary reminants from Enulose (that was last given a week ago after he'd been getting it twice daily for some time now?)

With a Hgb of 6.3 and a Hct of 19.4, he is quite anemic. This could very well account for his weakness and rapid heartbeat. My parent's CRF kitty, Samson, was diagnosed with a critical Hgb of 3.5 at one time. Talk to your vet about starting Duncan on Epogen shots. They can be a life saver. Epogen stimulates the bone marrow to produce red blood cells. Three times weekly shots of Epogen gave my parents a full year of good quality life for Samson before his body quit responding to it. Please feel free to PM me if there's anything that I can help you with or explain about the Epogen.

Good luck, I will keep you and your sweet Duncan in my prayers.

Pookie & the girls

Honestly, if you haven't read the beginning notes in this thread, please do so. I consider www.felinecrf.org to be the best site on the web for information on crf and all it's related issues - anemia, muscle weakness, vomitting due to increase stomach acid, constipation and dehydration.

I will pm you the address for the support group I belong to..none better on the 'net that I know of...and it gives you addresses of where to order fluids for sub-q, the iv lines (even though you will be giving the fluids as sub-q, not IV), and needles...will require a prescription for at least part of the supplies.


I wish you and your kitty all the best,

You have done a WONDERFUL job of helping owners with CRf cats! Bless You!

The owner of the site CRF.ORG DID live in the US for a bit but now has gone back to the UK. She has her OWN yahoogroups CRF list http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/

She also has a yahoogroups cats-healthandbehavior where they talk about CRF as well as other health problems.

There is also the MAIN CRF group - http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/F...guid=257851288

The latter one has been around for many years and has links to other related groups such as feline Anemia and feline Assisted feeding

My Missy decided some months ago she did not want to eat. Her bloodwork is not that high but she was litterally starving - THAT is what usually causes the death of a CRF cat as they just don't feel good enough to eat.

The main CRf Support group talked me into joining the feline assisted feeding group, and now I syringe feed her 3 x a day.

She now weighs 8 pounds (only weighed 6 when I adopted her 3 years ago) and looks better than she ever did.

Originally Posted by MyBabies

You have done a WONDERFUL job of helping owners with CRf cats! Bless You!

The owner of the site CRF.ORG DID live in the US for a bit but now has gone back to the UK. She has her OWN yahoogroups CRF list http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/FelineCRF/

She also has a yahoogroups cats-healthandbehavior where they talk about CRF as well as other health problems.

There is also the MAIN CRF group - http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/F...guid=257851288

The latter one has been around for many years and has links to other related groups such as feline Anemia and feline Assisted feeding

My Missy decided some months ago she did not want to eat. Her bloodwork is not that high but she was litterally starving - THAT is what usually causes the death of a CRF cat as they just don't feel good enough to eat.

The main CRf Support group talked me into joining the feline assisted feeding group, and now I syringe feed her 3 x a day.

She now weighs 8 pounds (only weighed 6 when I adopted her 3 years ago) and looks better than she ever did.

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I made a mistake. The lady who owns the felineCRF.org site is NOT in the UK she is still in the US and she does NOT own the FelineCRFgroup on yahoogroups.

SHE owns THIS CRF message board :
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/feline-crf-info/

AlysBrangwin, I would suggest you join either HER group or the Feline CRF support group. Either can save your cats life.

I do subQ fluids at home and you can too.

Hi, all, can I jump on this bandwagon?

Tigger (17 1/2) had her vet check today with a senior panel. Some of her values are SLIGHTLY elevated, and the vet told me it was mostly important to keep her hydrated. She didn't even mention CRF. OK, Here are the values:

BUN 41
CREA 3.4

potassium is right in the middle of normal
phosphorous is a little less than the middle of normal (if that makes sense)

Only other abnormals were GLOB 5.2 (range of 2.8-5.1), and GLUCOSE 160 (range up to 159)

She does have a little nausea every morning, but no trouble eating. What do you all think??? Thanks so much!

Originally Posted by kluchetta

Hi, all, can I jump on this bandwagon?

Tigger (17 1/2) had her vet check today with a senior panel. Some of her values are SLIGHTLY elevated, and the vet told me it was mostly important to keep her hydrated. She didn't even mention CRF. OK, Here are the values:

BUN 41
CREA 3.4
potassium is right in the middle of normal
phosphorous is a little less than the middle of normal (if that makes sense)

Only other abnormals were GLOB 5.2 (range of 2.8-5.1), and GLUCOSE 160 (range up to 159)

She does have a little nausea every morning, but no trouble eating. What do you all think??? Thanks so much!

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First you need to know what the lab used, has for it's range of low to high normal.

At my vets, a 3.4 creatinine is significant. At the lab my vet uses the high number for normal is 2.4. As I've learned from my support list and the felinecrf.org site, a shift in creatinine is more significant than an increase in bun.

Did your vet mention doing followup bloodwork soon to see how this is tracking?

If she were mine, I'd consider diet change to a lower phosphorous content food, and start calcitriol (based on my good experiences with using this), and ask about doing sub-q fluids several times a week.
How was the specific gravity of her urine? That is also important to know - how well her kidneys are concentrating urine.

I would recheck her labs soon and I would be aggressive with trying to get that creatinine back under 3.

My 2 cents.

Originally Posted by Pat & Alix

First you need to know what the lab used, has for it's range of low to high normal.

At my vets, a 3.4 creatinine is significant. At the lab my vet uses the high number for normal is 2.4. As I've learned from my support list and the felinecrf.org site, a shift in creatinine is more significant than an increase in bun.

Did your vet mention doing followup bloodwork soon to see how this is tracking?

If she were mine, I'd consider diet change to a lower phosphorous content food, and start calcitriol (based on my good experiences with using this), and ask about doing sub-q fluids several times a week.
How was the specific gravity of her urine? That is also important to know - how well her kidneys are concentrating urine.

I would recheck her labs soon and I would be aggressive with trying to get that creatinine back under 3.

My 2 cents.

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Looks like the lab uses similar values. The range is 0.8 - 2.4 on my paperwork here. What amount of phosphorous should the cat consume in a day? We feed a variety of wet food, among them Tiki Cat, Wellness, Artemis, and Weruva. So I'm trying to work that out. And even though her Phosphorous levels are not high, still try & restrict that?

They did not do a urine test, and they did discover some dental problems which they are going to treat with antibiotics. The vet didn't even mention CRF, just said to make sure she drinks.

I would ask your vet if this isn't crf, and if they say no, ask them why they are saying that, because I would want to understand why it isn't

Here are two pages I suggest you read:
http://www.felinecrf.org/diagnosis.htm#creatinine
http://www.felinecrf.org/treatments.htm#high_phosphorus

With each you can drill down for more information on creatinine, how to treat high phosphorous and on nutrition and phos levels etc. I am listing this even though your kitties phos level is normal, it helps to understand why that is important as well as discussing how to keep it lower.

I know I was a bit lax compared to many, but I go for a phos level under 1.0 (this is a dry matter value versus the as-fed value, which is what is listed on a food label).

Two more pages:
http://www.felinecrf.org/nutritional_requirements.htm

http://webpages.charter.net/katkarma/canned.htm

If you don't already have one, I understand a pet water fountain can help increase their daily water intake.