Step Backward with Introductions?

malakaiii

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I've posted before about introducing 17 week old Pixel to 4.5 year old Tak, and that it was going relatively well apart from some hissing and what I thought was too-rough play (but everyone talked me out of overreacting!
)

Now I'm seeing some specific signs in Tak that she's really hating Pixel. They were both sleeping on my desk just now. Poor Pixel really LIKES Tak, and she's a cuddly little girl so she wants to snuggle everyone (even cranky older kitties). Tak started playing with Pixel's tail, which I thought was cute... until Tak just starts hissing and batting and jumps Pixel (who was half asleep). They are in my arm's reach, so I pushed Tak off and left it at that. Then a few minutes later, Pixel was totally asleep, and Tak started sniffing her... then she jumps her again and starts batting at her and hissing. I had to put Tak on the floor.

And this is an hour or so after I just had a little 'treat party' with them...

This isn't an isolated incident, but they seem to be happening more frequently where Tak angrily jumps a quiet non-playful Pixel. I think it's really getting to my poor snuggly Pixel.
She doesn't purr as quickly now when we pet her, and she seems to get really upset for a while after Tak turns on her.

We do have a Feliway diffuser, but it isn't creating any miracles... Tak was diagnosed with a nervous disorder a few months back, but it had been improving with play therapy. Now she doesn't WANT to play and she's getting antsy again. She's in a constant state of agitation, even when Pixel is in another part of the house. Her tail flicks ALL the time. Is that normal?! We had her at the vet not too long ago, and she noticed an improvement in Tak (we noticed it too). She even seemed to do well when we introduced her to Pixel, but now she's pissed off constantly.

My dreams of having them snuggle and clean each other are dead... I just don't want to have to spend the rest of our lives trying to prevent Tak from trouncing Pixel...

I've been having a stressful few weeks with school and relationship issues, so I just want to find a little furry peace at home...
 

belongstoevie

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Unfortunately, I'm too new of a meowmy to have any good advice for you, but I do want to send good vibes your way and tell you I'm hoping they get along! Who knows, maybe there's still a chance that eventually they'll love each other...

The only thing I can say is in reply to Tak's tail twitching all the time- Evie's always does and always has been a twitcher. Her tail's always flicking. But, it's normal for her. Before Pixel, did Tak's tail twitch all the time?

Best of luck to you and your fur babies!!
 

ldg

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Hi - I'm so sorry they're not getting along the way you'd hoped.


How long have you had Pixel?

Here are my thoughts:

Tak is 4.5 years old and is annoyed by the young kitten. Pixel will mellow with time, even though it's difficult now.

They're both females. I know you wanted a male and it didn't work out that way.
Our Spooky, who stresses easily, takes about six months to accept a new cat. We had a lot of feral fosters through, and she was our third cat (we now have six), so she's used to cats coming and going - but it takes her six months before she'll stop hissing, growling, and batting at a new kitty - especially if it's a girl. The boys she doesn't really have a problem with.

When we brought Ming Loy into the house, Ming Loy didn't have any cat manners, and would lean (she's handicapped) and jump on the other cats. It drove everyone nuts - but Spooky wouldn't stand for it, would hit her or wrestle her down. Like I said - it took six months for Spook to stop being mad about Ming Loy. After nine months, we found Spook grooming her in the kitchen before meal times.

Several people at TCS adopted a second cat and it didn't go well at first. One in particular comes to mind - an older female with a younger female kitten adopted. After a couple of months, things seemed to be going OK - but in the end, it took about a year before the older cat was truly happy again. The kitties are great friends now - but IMO especially with two females, time is the main ingredient for success.

I know it's hard not to feel guilty about how Tak is doing, and it's hard not to be sad that Pixel's not purring as much, but the main ingredient is going to be time.


You say Tak is now jumping Pixel who's quietly lying down. So - apart from time, here are some things I think you can try.

Take each kitty in the bedroom or computer room at some point for alone play time. The treat party is great - but individual play is important too. I'm assuming if you try to play with Tak that Pixel kind of takes over? That's the way it worked for us with a kitten in the RV or house. So we would take each kitty into the bedroom, close the door, and play with each alone for 20 minutes or so every day.

I also assume you're spending a lot of alone time with Tak? She needs extra attention now, lots of reassurance, and lots of love (to the extent possible). She's got a stranger invading her territory - new routines, she has to share your love and attention - she has to share her litter boxes - and no matter how much you want to cuddle with Pixel, try to do it when Tak is in the other room.

I expect you're already doing the scent swapping? (Is that what you meant by the treat party?) Rubbing Tak all over with a wash cloth and putting treats on it for Pixel - and rubbing Pixel all over with a cloth and putting treats on it for Tak?

Along these lines, the idea is to help Tak think Pixel is a good thing. Make it seem that wonderful things happen to Tak whenever Pixel is around. Exaggerate everything so her new lifestyle with Pixel seems to be great fun - full of goodies, treats, hugs and kisses (to the extent she's into those).
Cats learn by association, and if Tak learns to associate Pixel's presence with fun and games, that will help her accept Pixel. I know you want to focus on Pixel because she's loving and cuddly and Tak isn't - but to help Pixel in the long run, right now you have to focus on Tak.

To this end, make sure there are cat toys everywhere so it's easy to grab and play. Does Tak every play by herself? I think I remember she's got a nervous disorder? If so - it could be she attacks Pixel out of anxiety and/or boredom, or a combination. Play, love and reassurance will help with the anxiety (since the Feliway isn't) - and play will help alleviate any potential boredom.

Also - frequently change the toys that are out. Like every couple of days. I know it can be tough on the wallet, but buy a new toy every few days. This will help keep things intersting for both of them. Or put out boxes for a few days - then switch to paper bags for a few days, &etc.

Also - I don't know to what extent you've allowed Tak to express her desire to be alpha. But stopping her from pouncing on Pixel isn't necessarily the right thing to do. I know you want Pixel to be really happy in your home - but the two of them are going to have to work out their living arrangements, and given the way Tak's reacting to having a new sister, Pixel's going to have to decide if she wants to fight Tak for alpha, or if she's going to "give." At some point, stopping Tak from jumping Pixel is contributing the problem. I know you want a peaceful home - but they do have to work it out. If it looks like Tak is going to draw blood, then make a loud noise - keep a can with coins in it handy to shake or clap REALLY loudly. Don't intervene physically - the last thing you want is Tak to associate you with her problems with Pixel.

Do you have a lot of vertical space for them? This can be really important and can change the dynamic. Any way to clear a space off the top of a bookshelf? If Tak is going to be the alpha, she may feel WAY more comfortable having a high space to lie on, sit on and stare out over "her" territory. Having vertical space (if they don't already have it) may also really help calm things down.

When we lived in the RV, because we had so little room, we tried to maximize the usable space for the kitties. We bought a book shelf that was open on the ends and 3 levels high and put it at the side of the bed. It was a pain in the butt because now the only way out of bed for Gary was to slide down off the end of the bed - but having two "tunnels" (rectangular) and a top shelf was just great for the kitties.

I know you want to love and cuddle the new snuggly kitty - but to make things work in the long run, you have to focus on Tak as she is the one who has to change everything to share with Pixel.

How many litter boxes do you have? If it's just two, consider adding one more. I know you're in a small space, but see if you can't find room for it.

I expect you believe (or know!) that cats are sensitive, emotional, intelligent animals.
Treat them like this - talk to them.
Talk a lot, and do it out loud. Keep explaining to Tak that Pixel needed a home - and you felt Tak needed a playmate. Explain that Pixel is a kitten with lots of energy, and she'll mellow with time. Explain to Pixel that Tak is used to being alone, she never had to learn how to share your love and affection or her territory, and she's going through a lot of adjustments, and ask Pixel to be patient with Tak.

Praise Tak to high heaven for anything that isn't aggressive toward Pixel. Encourage friendly behavior, but don't interfere with aggressive behavior unless Tak looks like she's going to actually hurt Pixel. Pay more attention to what's happening physically than to the yowls that may be happening.

If these things don't seem to help - then I think you'll have to put a screen door inbetween the bedroom and the computer room and decide which territory is "most" Tak's, and put her in there and start over.




Laurie
 
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malakaiii

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THANK YOU for that amazing speech. I appreciate it more that words can say!

I'm running out the door right now, but I will respond to everything when I get back. I just wanted to say THAAAANK YOOOU! and that I am going to start implementing your brilliant ideas right now!

 
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malakaiii

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How long have you had Pixel?
She's been here for five weeks now, and the first 2 weeks she was confined to the bathroom for the intro method.

Our Spooky, who stresses easily, takes about six months to accept a new cat. We had a lot of feral fosters through, and she was our third cat (we now have six), so she's used to cats coming and going - but it takes her six months before she'll stop hissing, growling, and batting at a new kitty - especially if it's a girl.
Hm. I hope it doesn't take 6 months... but that's better than not happening at all! It's good to know that there IS the possibility of things improving. It just seems like we went from starting off on pretty good terms to getting progressively worse...

The kitties are great friends now - but IMO especially with two females, time is the main ingredient for success.
Time is something I've got! I wish Tak would know that I considered her thoroughly before getting another cat, and that I wanted her to have a companion, not an enemy!
Take each kitty in the bedroom or computer room at some point for alone play time. The treat party is great - but individual play is important too. I'm assuming if you try to play with Tak that Pixel kind of takes over?
You assume correctly! Pixel always outstages Tak. Tak likes to take her time and calculate her pounces, while Pixel bounces all over the place! I think that taking some private time to play with Tak on her own is a good suggestion that I will most definitely be doing.

I also assume you're spending a lot of alone time with Tak? She needs extra attention now, lots of reassurance, and lots of love (to the extent possible).
That's the thing with Tak, she's NEVER been cuddly. I accept that because I know that's who she is. But when I should be (and want to) spend more time with her... I don't know where to start! She bites if I pet her too much, and will leave if I'm giving her too much attention. I'm over being 'hurt' by her snubs (I know Tak is just Tak!), but I'm at a loss of how to spend time with her. Her ideas of "time together" is sleeping on a chair across the room.

I expect you're already doing the scent swapping?
Yep, lots of scent swapping, and the vanilla trick. I would also assume because of the time we spend with them that our smells are also something they have in common... but maybe it doesn't work that way?

Make it seem that wonderful things happen to Tak whenever Pixel is around. Exaggerate everything so her new lifestyle with Pixel seems to be great fun - full of goodies, treats, hugs and kisses (to the extent she's into those).
Cats learn by association, and if Tak learns to associate Pixel's presence with fun and games, that will help her accept Pixel.
I don't know what fun and games IS for Tak. I can see her enjoying the private no-Pixel playtime, but I don't know how to make time with Pixel more fun. I tried giving them some treats near each other (not too close), but Tak didn't want any (she wouldn't even eat them later). And she dislikes being pet even more when Pixel is nearby. She's always been really aloof and doesn't get excited about things... so it's even harder to get her excited when her new 'enemy' is nearby...

To this end, make sure there are cat toys everywhere so it's easy to grab and play. Does Tak ever play by herself? I think I remember she's got a nervous disorder? If so - it could be she attacks Pixel out of anxiety and/or boredom, or a combination. Play, love and reassurance will help with the anxiety (since the Feliway isn't) - and play will help alleviate any potential boredom.
Our house looks like a cat-toy store exploded!
We've got cat towers, tunnels, home-made window seats, plastic mice, milkjug rings, fluffy balls, bouncy balls, mice and feathers on strings (only for interactive play)... oh jeez there are more! Whenever I'm walking through the house I will pick up an item and call the nearest cat, then whip it across the house. Tak used to chase, but now she won't (even if Pixel is nowhere to be seen). And I haven't seen her engage herself in any play lately either.

Also - frequently change the toys that are out.
This is a good suggestion! It works with kids too.


At some point, stopping Tak from jumping Pixel is contributing the problem. I know you want a peaceful home - but they do have to work it out. If it looks like Tak is going to draw blood, then make a loud noise - keep a can with coins in it handy to shake or clap REALLY loudly. Don't intervene physically - the last thing you want is Tak to associate you with her problems with Pixel.
I hear you on this one! I don't want to spend my time breaking up mini power struggles anyway. I will certainly be sure they aren't hurting each other, though. Hopefully they will sort things out soon. I really hope Tak comes out as the Alpha because it would make her happier!

Do you have a lot of vertical space for them? This can be really important and can change the dynamic. Any way to clear a space off the top of a bookshelf? If Tak is going to be the alpha, she may feel WAY more comfortable having a high space to lie on, sit on and stare out over "her" territory. Having vertical space (if they don't already have it) may also really help calm things down.
I actually laughed out loud when I read that part! Tak has recently re-found one of her favourite spots, on top of a bookcase! She sleeps up there now and seems really happy from her high perch. Also, Pixel is unable to get up there, so it makes it that much better for Tak. I'm really happy to see that you've suggested that as a solution because she essentially 'solved' that for herself!


How many litter boxes do you have? If it's just two, consider adding one more. I know you're in a small space, but see if you can't find room for it.
We do have just two, but we live in a one bedroom apartment, so I think it's about as many as we can handle! Neither of them uses the other's box, though, so I don't think it's causing a problem.

I expect you believe (or know!) that cats are sensitive, emotional, intelligent animals.
Treat them like this - talk to them.
Talk a lot, and do it out loud. Keep explaining to Tak that Pixel needed a home - and you felt Tak needed a playmate. Explain that Pixel is a kitten with lots of energy, and she'll mellow with time. Explain to Pixel that Tak is used to being alone, she never had to learn how to share your love and affection or her territory, and she's going through a lot of adjustments, and ask Pixel to be patient with Tak.
This is a smart and kind suggestion that I will be using! It will improve our outlook on things and also help us to exude positive energy to the cats... which can only make things better!


If these things don't seem to help - then I think you'll have to put a screen door inbetween the bedroom and the computer room and decide which territory is "most" Tak's, and put her in there and start over.
Let's hope it doesn't come to that! Thanks so much for the helpful suggestions. They are really going to make a big difference!
 

ldg

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Originally Posted by Malakaiii

...That's the thing with Tak, she's NEVER been cuddly. I accept that because I know that's who she is. But when I should be (and want to) spend more time with her... I don't know where to start! She bites if I pet her too much, and will leave if I'm giving her too much attention. I'm over being 'hurt' by her snubs (I know Tak is just Tak!), but I'm at a loss of how to spend time with her. Her ideas of "time together" is sleeping on a chair across the room.
I guess the best thing to do then is just talk to her. Maybe give Tak treats every time Pixel comes into the room while you're there?

Originally Posted by Malakaiii

I don't know what fun and games IS for Tak. I can see her enjoying the private no-Pixel playtime, but I don't know how to make time with Pixel more fun. I tried giving them some treats near each other (not too close), but Tak didn't want any (she wouldn't even eat them later). And she dislikes being pet even more when Pixel is nearby. She's always been really aloof and doesn't get excited about things... so it's even harder to get her excited when her new 'enemy' is nearby...
Well - that answers my first question here.
I guess just focus on the alone play time and verbal resassurances.


Originally Posted by Malakaiii

Let's hope it doesn't come to that! Thanks so much for the helpful suggestions. They are really going to make a big difference!
Well, I hope they do. I wish I had better advice - but I guess I just don't have the experience dealing with such an aloof kitty. At the very least, our kitties always enjoyed play. Maybe give Tak new toys during alone play time?

I'm sure that given time Tak will come to at least some kind of peace with Pixel if not actually becoming friends with her.
Even Spooky will groom Ming Loy when she wants it, and when Ming Loy tries to play with her and she's not in the mood, she'll just walk away.



Laurie
 
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