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Anybody else worried about China?

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
Are any of you old enough to remember that we used to call it Communist China? Then Bush gave the country Most-Favored-Nation status, brought it into the World Trade Organization - and all of a sudden it's just "China."

Did I miss something? Did they abolish the Party Congress and they've been having elections for the past few years?

We've been of the opinion that "China" is still Communist China, and it's a sleeping dragon, and no one's watching it wake up. We warned in our strategy pieces that if allowed into the WTO that China would do what it could to turn the Euro instead of the dollar into the world currency of choice, so to speak. And here is a chart of the Euro - the chart is from 1997, and China joined the WTO in 2001:



And here is a chart of the U.S. Dollar:



Communist China now has a population of 1.2 billion people, with a "middle class" of 330 million - the size of the U.S. Of course the difference in the Chinese "middle class" is quite different than that of the U.S. - but the growth of the Chinese economy has been the engine driving the world economy for the past decade, really.

The U.S. trade deficit with The People’s Democratic Republic of China has grown from $83 billion in 2001 to $232 billion in 2006. (Try finding something in Walmart made of plastic that wasn't made in China). Communist China now owns close to 18% of the U.S. Debt. As of 2006, it has the 2nd largest economy in the world, and Communist China’s GDP is projected to equal that of the U.S. in 2020.

China has refused to participate in the International Space Station project(s) because they have their own. They plan to have a space station by 2010, put a man on the moon by 2017, and are talking about a space station on the moon.

The Chinese have ground-based lasers that are capable of blinding U.S. satellites. And not forgetting that China has nuclear weapons, did anyone catch this news? http://www.defensetech.org/archives/003183.html (I originally saw it on CNN). The Xichang Space Center launched a missile that had the accuracy to leave earth atmosphere, attain orbit, and hit and destroy a satellite. They blew up one of their old weather satellites – but that’s not the point. The point is the capability and accuracy they have in missile technology.

We can worry about Iraq and Iran, and with good reason. But when China first but a man into space, they did it on the same day (39 years later) on which it exploded its first atom bomb. And when they put their first satellite into orbit, it broadcast a song, “Dong Fang Hong†- The East is Red. (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20...nt_1128878.htm)

I’m worried about a lot of things. But high on my list is The People’s Democratic Republic of China – Communist China – not “China.â€

Laurie
post #2 of 25
Very much so. I have been keeping a eye on it for 10 years or more. that was one think that made me post the wifeless thread couple of weeks ago. With 3 million men with familys, they will start looking outward. Having both chinese and Taiwanese friends there is alot of issue there. China would love nothing more then to get the US so busy some place else that China can just move into Taiwan.

Well lets see, they under value there money to keep the price of there goods lower, they use slave labor to make many of the cheap goods. They now control the Panama canal, are playing along with the radical muslims. SO of there top business people are ex gernerals, One of those compaines i think does security for US ports.

One of the reasons i did not want the US to attack iraq was that i think china i playing along with that to keep the US so locked into the middle east, I would not be shocked that if the US did attack iran now, that china would move on Taiwan. China has a very long history of dislike for people around them , Korea, vietnam, japan( there has been hash words with japan for large number year, due to japan never saying anything or admitting to the war crimes at Nanking during WW2) now they have also been some bad words over some land that has some oil, that belongs to japan.

Now what do i think will happen, I think that the interal pressure from people having some money, a middle class if you will, the demand for more and more freedoms.
will cause china to break out in civil war. , unless the Goverment does back down and allow for much more freedoms. The chinese follow Sun Tzu much better, and they know us way better then we know them. lol, i can think of many exmpales of them doing many of things Sun Tzu said to do.

I hope that i am wrong, as i really do like china and its food, err, i mean people.
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
...One of the reasons i did not want the US to attack iraq was that i think china i playing along with that to keep the US so locked into the middle east, I would not be shocked that if the US did attack iran now, that china would move on Taiwan...
The People's Democratic Republic of China has considered Taiwan the 23rd province from day 1. We expect to see them take Taiwan within the next 5 - 7 years. We also expect to see them move on the Spratley Islands at some point - they need the oil. They don't have aircraft carriers (yet), so they can't project their naval power that far (yet), but I seriously doubt we'd be able to do anything about it when it happens.

Laurie
post #4 of 25
I hear they have a pretty spiffy navy...
post #5 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
The People's Democratic Republic of China has considered Taiwan the 23rd province from day 1. We expect to see them take Taiwan within the next 5 - 7 years. We also expect to see them move on the Spratley Islands at some point - they need the oil. They don't have aircraft carriers (yet), so they can't project their naval power that far (yet), but I seriously doubt we'd be able to do anything about it when it happens.

Laurie
\\

They do have a aircraft carrier now, it is no way can complere to The US ones yet.
i think it is supposed to go for its maiden trip soon.

China back downed last year missle test near Taiwan once 2 us carriers groups showe up, plus the Us subs are the best in the world. navy wise i am not that worried. It just a matter of if we have the spare units, and if the US people dont do the on we dont want are people to die thing again.

I still think that internal pressue will cause major issue there within the next 10 years.
post #6 of 25
I've been worried about China for a long time. In fact, it's the only subject over which I would accept being accused of being one-eyed, unfairly prejudiced, aggressive and hot-headed. I think as a nation they have a LOT to answer for.

And that's all I'm saying, because otherwise I'll get myself worked up and say something I shouldn't.
post #7 of 25
I am- i do NOT trust China and i think Bush made a big mistake by giving a communist nation like China that status. Dumb Move. They are definitely a sleeping dragon in my opinion. All it will take is for the US to tick them off just once and then we'd really be in a mess
post #8 of 25
Is it any wonder China is in the monetary position it is

When people go shopping they're not thinking about oooh this is made in China
and they butcher and skin animals alive..

They're thinking oooh look at that isn't that cheap I found myself a bargain and
it looks so trendy and better than my neighbours

All I can say is
WELL WHOOPEE DOOO where's that gonna get you when your six foot under
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryEyedTiGeR View Post
a Dumb Move. They are definitely a sleeping dragon in my opinion
Now I think you've been listening to your granny too much, like me

but I learnt a long time ago it's only the sheer number in the population that scares
people.
Imo the biggest threat is Islam
post #10 of 25
I have been worried about China since the Berlin wall fell and then the SOviet union
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by furryferals View Post
but I learnt a long time ago it's only the sheer number in the population that scares people.
Imo the biggest threat is Islam
lol that and they have been working with Radical islam, like iran, how at the same time, cracking down on the muslims inside the country. At one point in time they had a rule no arab looking people allowed to fly on there airline.( i dont know if they lifted that or not)

"They're thinking oooh look at that isn't that cheap I found myself a bargain"
that is part of my family when they go off to walmart. but then they complain about everything made in china.

talk about skinning animals alive i saw them make sanke soup, and it almost made me throw up. i am not lover or hater of snakes, but that was just wrong.
post #12 of 25
Isn't the Euro doing well

Some of you people frighten me- there are a couple of comments about Islam that suggest that your only contact with a muslim has been by watching Fox News and that they are all suicide bombers.

As for China it has been noted that the US encouraged them to start the mass production of consumer goods at the expensive of other manufacturing nations and now both China and India are expanding at an incredible rate using more and more of the worlds resources. The sensible person might wonder what the US is going to do when the oil runs out but lets just have a look at recent comments on this thread...
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98
the Us subs are the best in the world. navy wise i am not that worried. It just a matter of if we have the spare units, and if the US people dont do the on we dont want are people to die thing again.
Don't like 'em, lets kill them attitude
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
The Chinese have ground-based lasers that are capable of blinding U.S. satellites. And not forgetting that China has nuclear weapons
Quick, lets come up with an excuse for military intervention
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98
I would not be shocked that if the US did attack iran now, that china would move on Taiwan.
Well I guess that America could either look at its foreign policy or recruit more soldiers :
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
Isn't the Euro doing well

Some of you people frighten me- there are a couple of comments about Islam that suggest that your only contact with a muslim has been by watching Fox News and that they are all suicide bombers. :
lol yea, good job on the euro, was talking to a company from england about a job in singapore where i would get paid in euros would be nice,
anyway on to the next part.

Well lets see i lived in Indoensia for almost 7 years, married to muslim women,
who family is half muslim half catholic, so i lived and worked with them for that time.
however i have pics from the bali bombings that i can post if people here want to see
people burned up missing limbs etc,We were 2 blocks away at her uncle hotel when the bombs went off, Ran over and did what we could to help until the people who are better at then i am came to help. i was in indo when muslims gangs went running around looking for any western person they could find to beat up. I was in indo when they had to use the police and army, and even the normal members of local Mosque to stop bombings in churchs at xmas time. Also had female friend that was a teacher at a girls school in southern thiland that was killed in her class room. Of course they are not all that way, maybe 2 % but what that 3 million? let see, my wife about 40 member of her family, 3 friends here in the states are muslims So that my contact with with both radical and normal islam

Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
As for China it has been noted that the US encouraged them to start the mass production of consumer goods at the expensive of other manufacturing nations and now both China and India are expanding at an incredible rate using more and more of the worlds resources. The sensible person might wonder what the US is going to do when the oil runs out but lets just have a look at recent comments on this thread...:
yep they did, however i dont remember them saying please use slave labor, and keep the vaule of money low, As for the Oil my guess would be the same as the rest of the world, use up the last of oil in wars, trying to get to it. same as they will in the UK.You dont think the UK will fight the best they can for that last drop also?
how ever I am all for going back to riding a horse. a motorcycle with legs works for me.
and a nice long trip on boat to get overseas would be grand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
don't like 'em, lets kill them attitude
who said anything about dont like them? I have, and been all over china(accept the great wall ) you are reading more into then i put. I was thinking about if and how the US would back up the treaty they signed with Taiwan, which was to help protect them. And how they are helping to arm the RADICAL muslims, please note i put radical in caps. how at th same time sending there muslims to re education camps.
I happen to love chinese history, art , food etc but like the chinese, i hate there govermetn.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
quick, lets come up with an excuse for military intervention :
That is old news, war has always been about over coming the enemy strength,
i saw that in denfense magizne 2 years about about china having that ability.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
Well I guess that America could either look at its foreign policy or recruit more soldiers :
maybe you should look to you own, just make sure your country does not have the same treaty in place to help Taiwan.

that was way to much typing
post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
As for China it has been noted that the US encouraged them to start the mass production of consumer goods at the expensive of other manufacturing nations and now both China and India are expanding at an incredible rate using more and more of the worlds resources. The sensible person might wonder what the US is going to do when the oil runs out ....
Exactly part of my point. The U.S. encouraged it, but I'm not one that supported China receiving Most-Favored-Nation status and being allowed to enter the WTO. They peg the Yuan, subsidizing the entire economy let alone actually subsidizing various industries. China can't feed itself, and in 2004 surpassed Japan as the world's 2nd largest oil importer (after the U.S.).

Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG
The Chinese have ground-based lasers that are capable of blinding U.S. satellites. And not forgetting that China has nuclear weapons
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilentNate
Quick, lets come up with an excuse for military intervention
That certainly wasn't an argument I was going to make - I don't know if you're making fun of me or tendencies of U.S. policy.

I was simply putting some facts out there - and as theimp pointed out, some of it is old news. But the ability of the Chinese to accurately target and destroy satellites in orbit is new news and was just recently confirmed by the National Security Council.

I don't know what should be done about it - but combining a nuclear power with incredible accurate missile targeting technology is not something that makes me feel safe or comfortable. To me, that's the

Laurie
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDG View Post
That certainly wasn't an argument I was going to make - I don't know if you're making fun of me or tendencies of U.S. policy.
Making fun of the tendancies of U.S. foreign policy, not you, sorry if I gave the wrong impression
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
Making fun of the tendancies of U.S. foreign policy, not you, sorry if I gave the wrong impression
Thanks. Then I'll laugh with you, although it's too true to really be funny.

And theimp - China has purchased aircraft carriers, but they are not in service. The bought and scrapped them in order to study them - one is now a floating amusement park not from Shenzhen. This was written in 2004: http://www.uscc.gov/researchpapers/2...snavyroute.htm, and this was written in 2006: http://www.iht.com/articles/2006/01/...ss/carrier.php

Laurie
post #17 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
I've been worried about China for a long time. In fact, it's the only subject over which I would accept being accused of being one-eyed, unfairly prejudiced, aggressive and hot-headed. I think as a nation they have a LOT to answer for.

And that's all I'm saying, because otherwise I'll get myself worked up and say something I shouldn't.

Let's celebrate, we agree on something.

It was a HUGE mistake to bring them into the WTO IMO.

Their human rights record is atrocious and the way they treat animals just sickened me. I just read they are doing another mass dog cull as they are to stupid to just require rabies vaccinations.

It infuriates me that the Olympics is going to be there.

My little old grandmother told me years and years ago to "beware" of China.
post #18 of 25
I don't follow much on the China in particular, but isn't this basically what our leaders do to us? Essentially shoot ourselves in our own foot.

We were friends with the Taliban back in the 80s, gave them weapons and such to help fight the Soviets...just in short because we didn't like them and want to get them PO.

Now Soviet is Russia, who is our friend, but we don't like the Taliban. bin Ladan created Al Qaeda as part of an Islamic movement, decided to hate the U.S. because Non-muslims touched Muslim soil in Desert storm...

So then who's to say that China doesn't do something to bring us down in 20 years?
post #19 of 25
I think china has always been a sleeping dragon. They are more technically advanced. They are more disciplined. They are capable of great evil if they ever wished it.... and America would have NOTHING to be able to stop them with.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
I
So then who's to say that China doesn't do something to bring us down in 20 years?
lol we are doing it to are self, dont need any help from chia.
post #21 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
Now Soviet is Russia, who is our friend, but we don't like the Taliban. bin Ladan
created Al Qaeda as part of an Islamic movement, decided to hate the U.S. because Non-muslims touched Muslim soil in Desert storm...

So then who's to say that China doesn't do something to bring us down in 20 years?
I think the difference is, with The USSR(cold war) it was mutual 'fear' because they thought the soviets wanted to rule the world but they just wanted to 'protect' their 'way of life'.

China is the same,the way they run their country is the 'best way' and they want to
protect that.

Unlike the Islamics they want to 'enforce' their way of life on the rest of the world.
Western cultures didn't realise that at that time and how dangerous that is for world
peace.China also recognises that fact too.So all in all we have a lot in common with
China.

But this is IMO
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
lol we are doing it to are self, dont need any help from chia.
That's true too

Come to MI, and you'll find my shovel and a grave in the backyard...if i don't move out soon, I may wind up in it.
post #23 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by furryferals View Post
I think the difference is, with The USSR(cold war) it was mutual 'fear' because they thought the soviets wanted to rule the world but they just wanted to 'protect' their 'way of life'.

China is the same,the way they run their country is the 'best way' and they want to
protect that.

Unlike the Islamics they want to 'enforce' their way of life on the rest of the world.
Western cultures didn't realise that at that time and how dangerous that is for world
peace.China also recognises that fact too.So all in all we have a lot in common with
China.

But this is IMO
Maybe I didn't pick the best example...all I know is that the U.S' sudden decision to trust a country that we didn't trust for a long time winds up either messing up relationships with another country or in short shooting ourselves in our own foot.
Which really...we are already...gas prices went up due to countries like china becoming more of a workforce and jobs are being lost to other countries.
post #24 of 25
I am very worried.
post #25 of 25
I am worried about China,

But I am FAR more worried about the internal politics, extreme liberalism conservative scare tatics and the complete lack of identity the US has anymore.

At this point, i believe any organized country could walk into our boarders with minimal effort.

US if fast becoming what ROME was at its final days.
China would be no scare when the US was firmly standing on its foundations.

It is no longer for the people nor by the people.
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