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Cruel? - Page 2

post #31 of 47
I had to vote "Both 1 and 3".
There's no chance that my cats will ever kill a fish...they have however caught a fly from time to time.
But that's the thing, they caught it...I didn't hunt down the fly myself and give it to them while it was alive so they could play with it until they got tired of the game and then kill it.

I do have to say that there have been times that I've seen one of the cats playing with a fly and I pick the cat up in one arm, scoop the fly up onto a paper towel and put it outside...if the fly is obviously hurt, I'll kill it myself just to put it out of it's misery.
I don't want to see anything...even a bug... suffer .
post #32 of 47
I hate seeing plants wilting! When our fish died (it was his time), it was the saddest thing and took hours...... broke my heart!
post #33 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
I pretty much knew what the majority response would be at TCS, but interesting comments and perspectives from everyone.

I didn't comment on the bengal list about the fish and the crickets, sometimes it's better to keep opinions to yourself on that message board. Some of the people there act like they are insane with rabies and they DO have big time cliques, plus I can get really evil and cut to the bone when backed into a corner, so I've found it's better to just let some stuff go.

I have no fondness for goldfish, but as a person who had reef tanks for nearly 10 years, I can't agree with torturing a fish in any capacity. And the crickets, well they are bugs, but still, as someone else has mentioned, it's a canned hunt. That was an excellent analogy for what's going on at those breeders homes.

Some of my bengals love water, others aren't overly enthused. I try to get them interested with ping pong balls floating around in the tub or maybe a rubber ducky, if they still don't want to...then so be it.

I got chastised by my sister-in-law last year for rescuing a snake.
She hates snakes and thinks they all need to die. Completely opposite of my thinking. This small snake had ventured into our carport, and managed to get on top of a box where the duct tape holding it together had come loose.
He got stuck to the duct tape and couldn't free himself. I have no idea how long he'd been there.
Anyway, I used some soap and a bit of goo-gone to loosen the adhesive enough where he could work himself loose. Then I washed him off and put him back in the yard.

Thought I'd never hear the end of that.
Now watching a Bengal attempting to "kill" a rubber duck would be cute and funny. You should post pictures of that.

Okay, back on topic now.
post #34 of 47
No, I love all animals, and this is sometimes incompatible with having a cat. If I had goldfish I would keep them safely out of reach of the cats. I realize having a cat and a bird is not really safe for the bird. Same with people who have rodents as pets. The cat will likely kill them if given the chance.

I don't even think it's ok to watch your cat kill another animal. I always found the animals after the cats had already killed them, so it was too late. But if I had a chance to prevent it, I would. I couldn't stand by and let it happen. That may sound weird to some, but it's how I feel. I couldn't.
post #35 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bella713 View Post
I think it's cruel...personally I could not kill anything or watch something kill
I agree with you Helen, for sure.
post #36 of 47
I am a vegetarian and an AR person, and unlike some in this thread, I do have feelings for fish and most other animals, and it simply breaks my heart to witness an animal--a bird, a mouse, a fish, or a frog--that a cat has killed. I know it's their instinct but it's one of the harder things for me to accept.
post #37 of 47
You worked a snake loose of adhesive tape, washed it, then released it???? Wow, you really ARE an animal lover!!!

I'm on the fence a bit. I would certainly never do it myself, and I don't like the idea of doing it in a space where the critters can't escape or hide. If they had a nice big pond where they kept feeder fish and crickets, and the animals had a chance to escape I'd feel much better about it.

I mean, we catch fish on hooks, then the poor things go through the torture of being "landed", and thrown back in. How different is that?

And I agree that it's teaching the kitties bad habits - especially if their new home has a fish tank!
post #38 of 47
Sounds like "canned hunting" for cats.
post #39 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
I got chastised by my sister-in-law last year for rescuing a snake.
She hates snakes and thinks they all need to die. Completely opposite of my thinking. This small snake had ventured into our carport, and managed to get on top of a box where the duct tape holding it together had come loose.
He got stuck to the duct tape and couldn't free himself. I have no idea how long he'd been there.
Anyway, I used some soap and a bit of goo-gone to loosen the adhesive enough where he could work himself loose. Then I washed him off and put him back in the yard.

Thought I'd never hear the end of that.
I got the same treatment for a grey squirrel my dog got ahold of. I put it in a box and took it to the vet. Although he looked fine, his back was injured and he couldn't use his hind legs. (dog had him in mouth and shook him) We had to euthanize him.

But to the original question, I have less problem with an animal killing another animal that it needs to eat to survive than I do for sport. (Unless that animal happens to be a coyote and its food is a cat... ) I take critters away from my cats when they're just messing with them for fun. That includes bugs, mice, bats and snakes.
post #40 of 47
Thats just cruel and unfair! I agree that toys or ice cubes would work as well as a live creature. I wouldnt be able to sit back and watch my cat kill something that I just handed to them. My cats also are not a fast killer~they will play with a mouse, mole, or bug when THEY catch it. I dont take those away from them, because they earned it themselves.
post #41 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by bemyonlyone View Post
I am a vegetarian and an AR person, and unlike some in this thread, I do have feelings for fish and most other animals, and it simply breaks my heart to witness an animal--a bird, a mouse, a fish, or a frog--that a cat has killed. I know it's their instinct but it's one of the harder things for me to accept.

Me too. That's one of the reasons my cats were indoor cats. Once my cat got out by accident and injured a baby mourning dove. ( I could see the mother dove watching from a perch) I was bawling, took it to the vet who said it would never fly again, so he put it to sleep. We sometimes have mice in our house, and I would always rescue them when my cats caught them too.

And I also agree with the canned hunt comment. I don't like hunting at all, but killing penned animals is totally disgusting.
Get some toy gold fish. I bet they even have ones that you can wind up so they move too.
post #42 of 47
I would certainly never give my cats animals to hunt for sport - This is just cruel.

But if my cats happen to catch something and kill it, I'm not going to be distressed over it - This is just their way of life.

As for feeding insects to pets, I don't have a problem with this - However, I do have a problem with people feeding live to their snakes/lizards etc - Putting a poor mouse in a cage with a snake and waiting for that snake to pounce is just too hard for me to contemplate - Hence why live feeding is illigal in my country.

Ok, thats my 2 cents
post #43 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snuzy View Post
Get some toy gold fish. I bet they even have ones that you can wind up so they move too.
i saw some of those at borders books recently, they were on a display of wind up toys.
post #44 of 47
I'm on the fence. I have a tank of feeders in my home to feed my pet turtle, and I also buy crickets for her.

She's an ominivoure, 50% of her diet must be meat. Either she kills her own food, or I buy her meat. Sometimes I give her cooked chicken. In this case, one could argue that "human food" is not as healthy, so it's better for her to eat the fish and crickets.

One could argue that we don't need this for cats; after all, they have other food. But the other food is still meat. You think the chicken in that cat food was treated humanely? The cat probably kills fish in a much more humane manner, and the fish might even be treated better than the chicken was.

The thing is, cats need almost 100% meat. Regardless of where it comes from, there is prey involved. I doubt it was treated humanely.

If you want to be the most humane, I'd say become a vegetarian. My old roomie was a vegetarian. She ate no meat because she finds the treatment of the animals cruel, but she helped feed live fish to my turtle. Why? Turtles need meat; we don't. Also, the fish were raised in our tank, and had a good life until they were made into dinner. (They were actually the babies of her fish, so that shows you how much she believed in this.)

So, I guess I take it back. I'm not on the fence. I don't see the difference between the cat catching its own treat and having a store-bought treat.

And as a side note, goldfish are really fatty. If anyone is considering doing this, buy minnows or guppies. They're healthier. Also quarantine the fish before hand. The pet store feeders are not kept in good conditions, and they tend to be ill. You don't want your cat eating sick fish.
post #45 of 47
What species of turtle was this? I thought turtles ate plants, and at most, bugs.

I am not a reptile person, which is good because I would have a huge problem feeding live animals to them. When I was in 4th grade, we had a garter snake in the classroom who had to eat live goldfish. That was HORRIBLE.
post #46 of 47
Quote:
Originally Posted by bab-ush-niik View Post
And as a side note, goldfish are really fatty. If anyone is considering doing this, buy minnows or guppies. They're healthier. Also quarantine the fish before hand. The pet store feeders are not kept in good conditions, and they tend to be ill. You don't want your cat eating sick fish.
Many people don't even know how icky petstore goldfish are.

I agree with bab-ush-niik's post completely, there's a very definite line in my mind as to what is "feeder" and what is pet. Sounds cruel, but there's no way around it for me. My cats do get crickets regularly, whether I choose to directly give them to the cats or not. If I see the boys playing with one, so be it, better the cricket be dead than chirping in my walls for days on end (where it will eventually starve to death).

I'm not going to be handing out live mice or fish to my cats, I have enough pets that I have to buy live food for and the cats certainly do not need live toys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bemyonlyone View Post
What species of turtle was this? I thought turtles ate plants, and at most, bugs.
It's says in their siggy, "Terabyte (turtle, red eared slider)" a commonly kept green turtle that can reach 8 to 12 inches in diameter. They have to have insects and some feeder fish is good (are fish are lower in phosphorus than insects?) but not as a main food because they're fatty. Hatchings and younger turtles are like children, they generally don't like veggies so much. They eat more as they get older.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bemyonlyone View Post
When I was in 4th grade, we had a garter snake in the classroom who had to eat live goldfish. That was HORRIBLE.
Turtle dinner manners (or complete lack of) is much worse.
post #47 of 47
I don't have a problem with cats killing other animals. Its in their nature. I was watching the discovery channel once, and they had the Extreme Hunters on. Guess who was number one? Yup, our beloved domestic cats! They beat out crocodiles and lions!!! Pound for pound, they kill more than any other species on the planet, and most of it is just for fun!

I wouldnt give my cats live goldies in a tub though. I have pond fish (koi, fantail goldie, placo) that have grown from about three inches two years ago to about a foot and a half now. I bring them in during the winter, and believe me Duke was tortured! LOL! Poor baby, so I bought him some rubber duckies to play with in the tub. He likes it, but then he's always liked water... on his own terms of course!

I'm actually thinking I will buy some of these though:

http://www.i-love-cats.com/cat-suppl...gger_Fish.html

http://www.zillion.co.nz/auctions/1589392/

The guppies on this page look about the right size:

http://www.poolcenter.com/pooltoys_r...pical_fish.htm

Nial, I saw that on the bengals list a while back. I think one person even has pics of it on their website. It was a turn off to me, because I like fish and I've kept feeders in my pond before. But yeah, it can be a war zone on that list sometimes and I never even post unless its something I really, really need to know.

I also have a relocation program for animals trapped in my garage. We get field mice in our bird food containers. Quite the shock when you reach in to scoop out some food and something small and furry jumps out at you and scurries away! So when the food gets low, they can't make the jump out of the five gallon bucket we keep the food in. When that happens, we trap them in a plastic jar and take them to the forest preserve to set them free... My mom thinks I'm crazy, but they are sooooo cute!
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