Why have I not heard of Toyger until now!

Originally Posted by Telynn

ABCNews web site has pictures.

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/popup?id=2938115

They are pretty cute.

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Like Hope said, looks like a bengal with stripes. The funny thing is, that sometimes we bengal breeders will produce a kitten that has 2 or more rib bars (stripes) behind the front legs. Those kittens are automatically tagged as just pet quality and would never be used in a legitimate breeding program.
For Toygers it's just the opposite, they want as many of those rib bars as possible and the spotted kittens would be labeled as just pet quality.

On a side note, since a few people may be viewing the link to those pictures, I have seen Toygers at the shows that look much better than the pictures ABC has. I have actually seen one Toyger with the wide, "fanned out in the middle" stripes that the Tigers have. It was very remarkable, but that's the only one I have seen like that. The judge that was evaluating this Toyger remarked how amazing the stripes were on this particular cat.

I think these Toyger breeders have their work cut out for them. It's going to be interesting to watch this breed over the next decade.

I would love to see one like that. I agree that these just look like striped bengals, leaning toward the dark orangey coloring. I like the coloring on the one in that 5th picture.

I might be biased but you really can see the Bengal influence in these cats. In the face, eyes, shape of the head.

The Bengal look would make sense since they are using them for foundation cats. Sad thing is, like Nial said, Bengal breeders get stripey cats from time to time and mark them as "pets" - someone obviously is NOT spaying and neutering these pets!

And I really am concerned when they put the "toy" name in there - that scares me!

I just signed onto the internet and my front page is Yahoo. Well, one of the lead stories is about Toygers! On the very front page of Yahoo. If people didn't know about them before, the word is definately out there now.

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

The Bengal look would make sense since they are using them for foundation cats. Sad thing is, like Nial said, Bengal breeders get stripey cats from time to time and mark them as "pets" - someone obviously is NOT spaying and neutering these pets!

And I really am concerned when they put the "toy" name in there - that scares me!

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It's the family of the originators of the Bengal who are creating this Toyger breed. They are probably purposefully not spaying and neutering the stripey Bengals for the very purpose of creating the Toyger. Chances are they are specifically breeding to get stripes.

I think there is a lot of potential for this breed, if they can get everything down right and have all cats meet the standard, or basically meet the standard, so that a "pet quality" Toyger still looks like a Toyger and not a striped Bengal.

For some reason, though they are really hyping this breed now, and it just doesn't make sense to do this until the breed has been perfected. Personally, I'm really looking forward to seeing some REAL Toygers. They could really be an awesome cat, if their vision works out.

This reminds me of the hype they did to the California Spangled cats by putting them in Neimus-Marcus Christmas catalog. The cat fancy was not pleased at all (to put it mildly) !

I agree too , they are hyping this way too early. They have weird colors right now - nothing like the orange of a tiger. If they are not careful, they may wind up shooting themselves in the foot - having a bandwagon of breeders that are NOT dedicated to really creating what they want. Just another "designer" cat in the end.

Concept might be good, but they are doing this too soon.

Took them 20 yrs or so for the Ocicats to be accept by CFA - it was originated in the 60's and CFA didn't even accept them till in the 80's!

Have they just recently been accepted by TICA? That might be why there is all of the hype. I can see that they're doing a good job on the tiger style stripes, on some of the toygers. The best being the Founders cats and kittens. I just don't think they look like Tigers yet, in the face, and of course I haven't ever seen a real tiger as dark as these cats. But this one website does say they're the latest cat to be accepted for championship by TICA, so that might be why they are hyping the breed so much. I still don't think they're ready yet. I think it just leaves the door open for a bunch of bad and inexperienced breeders to jump on the Toyger bandwagon and they will ruin the breed.

They have been given advanced new breed status by TICA. This means they can be shown as exhibit and compete with each other for merit ribbons, but they can't compete against other cats, and they can't attain titles.

I was looking at some other pictures of them and some had double colored stripes, like the bengal rosette stretched out. It looked kinda neat, but I wonder if the two toned stripes is what they are going for? I wouldn't think so.

I think the toygers are beautiful but I really love my Persians and the exotics better.

Out of curiosity, question to you breeders and genetics experts.

As of this time there aren't any toygers that match the standards. What part of the standards is going to be the hardest to 'get to'.

I'm guessing the color and striping to match the real tiger. And maybe the really round ears - almost all domestic cats have pointed ears. Persians tend to have more short round ears; especially if they pluck the hair on the tips. But if the Toyers are not adding in another wild cat with round ears, that might be hard to achieve.

It is the 10 years of working to develop the breed that bothers me - how many pet quality kittens is that going to produce in a world that already has too many cats needing a good home? And do we really need another wild looking breed? Are these going to have similar issues to the Bengal, where people want them cos of their looks, but then can't keep up with the energy levels so place them in a rescue?

Originally Posted by booktigger

It is the 10 years of working to develop the breed that bothers me - how many pet quality kittens is that going to produce in a world that already has too many cats needing a good home? And do we really need another wild looking breed? Are these going to have similar issues to the Bengal, where people want them cos of their looks, but then can't keep up with the energy levels so place them in a rescue?

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There's a thread in IMO to debate the Toyger, if you're interested. Might be a better place to express your viewpoint?

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=116680

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

I'm guessing the color and striping to match the real tiger. And maybe the really round ears - almost all domestic cats have pointed ears. Persians tend to have more short round ears; especially if they pluck the hair on the tips. But if the Toyers are not adding in another wild cat with round ears, that might be hard to achieve.

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Well the ALC, which has small rounded ears is the wild cat that's part of the gene pool for the Toyger, by way of the Bengal. The problem is, that even with bengals we have a tough time locking in the genes that produce the tiny rounded ears. It's very difficult to achieve with any predictablity.

I think the ears and head structure is going to be very hard to achieve, along with the color.

I know they are using Bengals and in turn have the ALC in there, but wouldn't they have to be going back to the ALC, which in turn means you have to have F4 or over to show? In a way you are diluting the wild gene so it would be difficult to set type on those ears.

Cool, I must be learning something if Nial agrees on color and head/ears

From what I can see, even the ALC doesn't have ears that are as small in porportion to the face and even close to as rounded as a Tigers ears. And even though I don't know the right terminology to use for head shapes, the real tiger has a really broad head. I've seen some pictures of ALC's that really don't look all that different from from a domestic cat, except for the HUGE, nocturnal eyes, and Tigers don't have those kind of eyes, so it probably will be extremely difficult to get a cat with really rounded ears, and have it not looking more like an ALC with stripes than a Tiger.

Looks like some Bengal Breeders our there are jumping on the band wagon and looking into breeding some of the furthest-along toygers with their bengals...



this beauty has been added to a hobbyist cattery that was previously doing only bengals (I think).

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Keep in mind the white tigers have chocolate/brown stripes - not black. I think it would be difficult enough getting the orange color - which is not the same color as red tabbys

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Actually, snow bengals DO have that coloration to them. Nials Arctic Cowboy, for example. Also, here are some other snow bengals:

http://www.bengal-cat.net/SNOW BENGAL.htm
(Ares and Dreamers mom, Blithe, is on that link )

I would imagine that once they have the type set for the toyger, they'll move on to adding the snow series. Won't be too difficult as they already have the years of work in the bengal breed to draw from.