I seriously regret the day I ever said "yes"....

I thought of that too. But it doesn't seem right to penalize the cat that doesn't have a problem. Also, Ophelia is not happy in the home herself.

If medication doesn't work to alter her behavior, I agree that the solution is to be less picky and find Ophelia a home that has no other pets. If she is nice to humans, then in that kind of home she won't even be a "problem cat." Petfinder or local rescue groups may be able to help you locate a good animal-free home; it doesn't have to be someone you know personally.

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

If you're not 100% ready to give up yet. Ask your Vet to let you try, fluoxetine. It's Prozac.

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That's what I was thinking as well. It worked for arcadiangirl's Wonton, maybe it will work for Ophelia..?

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

Amitriptyline is different than Prozac, but it is also used to treat depression/anxiety in cats. I've heard that it causes drowiness and cats tend to relapse after going off the meds, but Prozac has a better track record and many cats have gone off the meds and not relapsed into problem behavior.

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I'm not a cat, but I am on amitriptyline and Prozac. The Prozac made me much more happier and made my anger go away. I take amitriptyline at night and it makes me drowsy and calm. I don't know if the human stuff is the same that they give to cats, but that's my two cents..

Originally Posted by kluchetta

Poor you, and poor Lily and Ophelia.

Is there any chance of rehoming Lily to a home that just doesn't have Ophelia in it?

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That might work, but what if Ophelia really does have a mental/agression/anxiety disorder and then she fixates on another cat in the household?
It's probably better to remove the aggressor if at all possible, assuming all other avenues have been exhausted.

Quite some time ago I had a cat that liked to single out the "weak link" in our bengal hierarchy and she would relentlessy torment this cat. Bullying during feedings, for sleeping areas and litter box use. When I removed that cat to another area of the house to stop the abuse, she started in on the next cat she deemed at the bottom of the pecking order.
Ultimately I had her spayed and petted her out to a single cat home, where she is happy as a clam.

For the sake of Lily and hope she gets back to her old loving self, I would seriously rehome Ophelia. Seems you've tried for a year. Not fair to either cat. Some cats just hate each other and will NEVER get along.

Our top female barn cat ran off or killed EVERY female cat we had - her own daughters/granddaughters. She really does not like female cats in her territory. Males she will tolerate for the most part.

That is one of the main reasons that Ling never went back outside like the rest of the barn kittys we kept. Because she was female and I knew that sooner or later LoCal would chase Ling away permanently. I would have loved to have kept Ling's mom - very pretty tortie/white. But LoCal chased her off the farm by the time Ling was about 6-7 months old.

Maybe you can find a home of Ophelia that either has no other pets or has one male that she'll get along with. But tell the people that she does hate female cats, so they can never get a female cat in the house.

I'm so sorry you have to make this decision, but Lily was there first - she should be the priority!

Originally Posted by white cat lover

When I had her on Amitrityline, she got better, then got worse. Vet said he almost never sees that happen, so I discontinued meds. He didn't know what else to try.

The one thing I'm reading about Prozac & if I am understanding correctly, it is the human form that is given to cats/dogs? Does anyone know who here has their kitty on Prozac? I can't for the life of me remember the username....

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I used prozac for a dog it was a life saver ...

We're going through something similar, though not as severe -- our girls fight, but neither has ever required stitches, thank goodness. I can only imagine the anguish you're suffering, bless your heart.

Our Sassy and Pearl are mortal enemies, and over the past few months, Sassy has gradually retreated to the kitchen as her "safe place"... to such exclusion that she won't leave it even to go to the litterbox. As of the past few days, she's become afraid even to get down from the counter, and has been "going" there, poor thing.

The irony is that Pearl is not at all fearsome -- Sassy is nearly three times her weight, and Pearl has always been the one to suffer any visible injuries when they've fought. But Sassy is the one who's terrified.

So we use Feliway/Comfort Zone, we use Rescue Remedy, we use Bach's beechtree oil... we add litterboxes, we use Cat Attract... but nothing has brought the problem down to a longterm manageable level.

Tomorrow, we have an appointment to take Sassy to an "alternative vet" who uses both traditional and herbal remedies, and I expect that Prozac will probably be the prescription.

This is easier for me to accept than it might be for most, because I have chronic depression/anxiety disorder myself, and Prozac is one of the medications I've used in the past. A lot of people think that antidepressants are just "feel-good" pills, but in fact, they are intended to restore an abnormal brain chemistry to proper balance. They can be abused, of course... but when they're truly needed, antidepressants can literally save lives.

So don't feel bad about trying Prozac before you give up on keeping Ophelia in the family. Clearly, she is a very unhappy cat, and it could be that this kind of medication is just what she needs.

But if that next-to-last resort doesn't work, you are completely justified in seeking out a new home for her! It's an absolutely reasonable response to the situation, and I don't think anyone can doubt that you would do it in a deeply caring and responsible manner.

It's very clear in your post that you are acting out of love, and love will always lead you to the right decision.

Originally Posted by kluchetta

Poor you, and poor Lily and Ophelia.

Is there any chance of rehoming Lily to a home that just doesn't have Ophelia in it?

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This is going to sound really callous, but I love Lily so much that I couldn't bear to part with her. Ever. Ophelia, I love, but I don't "love" love her. I mean, I love her for everything I want her to be, nothing of which she is. I suspect that made no sense, either.

If Lily were to be re-homed, then Ophelia would go for the next weakest link...& that would be Damita. Lord knows Damita has enough trouble now without Ophelia trying to kill her.

For now, I am just pre-writing what I would put in a newspaper ad or on Petfinder. Then I have it if I need it. Prozac(or another med) is my next step, though. The worst part about the possibility of re-homing Ophelia is that she isn't a "nice" cat. She doesn't sit in laps. She doesn't mind being petted, but she isn't real fond of being openly appraoched. She is still & always will be semi-feral. Yet, she sleeps right next to me in bed every night.

Originally Posted by white cat lover

This is going to sound really callous, but I love Lily so much that I couldn't bear to part with her. Ever. Ophelia, I love, but I don't "love" love her. I mean, I love her for everything I want her to be, nothing of which she is. I suspect that made no sense, either.

If Lily were to be re-homed, then Ophelia would go for the next weakest link...& that would be Damita. Lord knows Damita has enough trouble now without Ophelia trying to kill her.

For now, I am just pre-writing what I would put in a newspaper ad or on Petfinder. Then I have it if I need it. Prozac(or another med) is my next step, though. The worst part about the possibility of re-homing Ophelia is that she isn't a "nice" cat. She doesn't sit in laps. She doesn't mind being petted, but she isn't real fond of being openly appraoched. She is still & always will be semi-feral. Yet, she sleeps right next to me in bed every night.

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That's totally cool - totally understood. I really think that there are people out there that will take her, but unfortunately it might take a bit. When I got Tigger, she wasn't the easiest cat to get a home for, (She was 14, possibly thyroid problems, didn't like to be picked up, and had lived with 10 cats and didn't really like other cats) and they put her on the local news and told it like it was and they said they had lots of calls on her. Maybe if you can get the right publicity...

Originally Posted by kluchetta

That's totally cool - totally understood. I really think that there are people out there that will take her, but unfortunately it might take a bit. When I got Tigger, she wasn't the easiest cat to get a home for, (She was 14, possibly thyroid problems, didn't like to be picked up, and had lived with 10 cats and didn't really like other cats) and they put her on the local news and told it like it was and they said they had lots of calls on her. Maybe if you can get the right publicity...

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That's the thing...I don't know if I could get publicity. There is no local TV station...it's an hour away. Nobody watches it, either! I could get a really nice ad in the Twin Cities Metro area paper...but I don't know how much good that'll do. I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

For now, I'm trying to think positive that I can get an Rx for Prozac & that it will work!

Beandip takes Prozac. It was prescribed on the theory that his bladder issues were partially caused by stress. I have to say, he's been the most stable, bladder-wise since he's been on the Prozac. We started on it in Sept. last year.

One word of caution, my huge pet peeve...the misconception that it will work 'immediately' or even within a week or two. It has a very long half life, so the daily dose is a 'maintenance' dosage that eventually builds up and stabilizes in kitty's system. My vet warned me not to expect any miracles for 4-6 weeks. She said after 6 weeks, we'd know if it was helping or not...before then, you don't really know.

I believe it really helped the Bean. In your situation, I too would encourage you to try it.

I read that it takes a minimun of 4-6 weeks, with full results typically seen in 12 weeks. I was prepared for this ugliness to go on for at least another month. Maybe a few more months.

I am trying to come up with containtment methods & ways of keeping Ophelia from attacking Lily. So far, I'm drawing blanks. ...sigh....

Originally Posted by white cat lover

I read that it takes a minimun of 4-6 weeks, with full results typically seen in 12 weeks. I was prepared for this ugliness to go on for at least another month. Maybe a few more months.

I am trying to come up with containtment methods & ways of keeping Ophelia from attacking Lily. So far, I'm drawing blanks. ...sigh....

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Cool...Ok. I should know that you researched that already. I just see it over and over, "We tried it for 2 weeks and it didn't work!!!!!!!!!" Ugggg.

FWIW, my vet speaks highly of the safety of Prozac. And it hasn't made Beandip tired or dopey. Well, he was born a little dopey. That's how he got his name. If anything, it's made him a little more sociable and therefore more active.

Oh and I forgot to say, Yes ..it's the same as what humans take.

I'm sorry you're going through this with her. I hope you can find the answers you need.

Prozac can be compounded into cat treats or made into a cream to rub on the ears. In any form, it is fairly expensive ($30 or more per month) and will have to be used forever. If behaviors are so firmly ingrained, there is less chance it will work.

IMO, you may be selling Ophelia short. You seem so sure that she won't be "nice" or work well in other homes based on the experience she's had in YOUR home. When you move the cat, the dynamics will be completely different. I've heard of many situations where just a change of scenery will correct many problem behaviors. If you choose to rehome her (and IMO, that's the thing to do) you can always rehome with the clause that you'll take her back if it doesn't work out. Seems that would be a win-win situation.

Good luck.

Cally

As I was reading all the suggestion, I was thinking of containment & re-homing. Could you afford and make room for a Kitty PlayPen? I have one in my living room that has mostly been used for holding ferals waiting to be vetted and time-outs when needed.

If you can get her on the Prozac and keep her in a playpen till you think the Prozac has taken hold or you can re-home, that may be a big help to Lily getting some of her spunk back.

I know none of us believe a cat should have to live out their life in a cage, but this would be a temporary solution till you can come to something more positive.

My Monique seems to be much like you describe Ophelia. She not only doesn't like other cats, doesn't like to be picked up, held, petted very little, but she wants to sleep on my chest in the bed at night.

I've thought about re-homing her into an only pet home and if she had actually caused injuries I'm sure I would be more proactive in that. Monique is declawed though, so there have been no injuries to others and most just try to give her wide berth when possible.

I wish you the best in dealing with this situation. You have probably been the best thing to happen to Ophelia with trying to find a good solution for her, and I'm sure you will come up with what's right for everyone in time.

Originally Posted by pee-cleaner

Prozac can be compounded into cat treats or made into a cream to rub on the ears. In any form, it is fairly expensive ($30 or more per month) and will have to be used forever. If behaviors are so firmly ingrained, there is less chance it will work.

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I'd be interested to know why you believe the Prozac needs to be used forever. The protocol I've seen is 4 to 6 months, then off the meds with the behavior having been succesfully modified with few cases of relapse.

Is your experience different?

Originally Posted by pee-cleaner

IMO, you may be selling Ophelia short. You seem so sure that she won't be "nice" or work well in other homes based on the experience she's had in YOUR home. When you move the cat, the dynamics will be completely different. I've heard of many situations where just a change of scenery will correct many problem behaviors.

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I agree with this. Once she's in a household with no other pets, she will probably be happier and calmer... and the new owners may see a whole different cat, particularly as time goes by. You said that people who don't live with you often say she's not that bad; they're seeing the better side of her that is suppressed because of the conflict with the other cats.

Originally Posted by tru

Could you afford and make room for a Kitty PlayPen?

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I don't know how I would go about making a kitty playpen. I kept her in my bedroom for a long time & she got so depressed in there. The basement(where she lives) is finished & at ground level, so it gets really boring if you aren't near an office window(sunshine & birds).

Originally Posted by pee-cleaner

Prozac can be compounded into cat treats or made into a cream to rub on the ears. In any form, it is fairly expensive ($30 or more per month) and will have to be used forever. If behaviors are so firmly ingrained, there is less chance it will work.

IMO, you may be selling Ophelia short. You seem so sure that she won't be "nice" or work well in other homes based on the experience she's had in YOUR home. When you move the cat, the dynamics will be completely different. I've heard of many situations where just a change of scenery will correct many problem behaviors. If you choose to rehome her (and IMO, that's the thing to do) you can always rehome with the clause that you'll take her back if it doesn't work out. Seems that would be a win-win situation.

Good luck.

Cally

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From what I've read, Prozac is used for a short period of time(in my case, we will also be working on behavior modification at the same time) & then the cat is taken off Prozac. If it works & she needs to be on it forever & she settles in here, I'd be happy.

You are right, though. She might be an entirely different cat in a new home. She might revert completely back to being semi-feral, or become a pet. I have to tell any potential adoptees everything good & bad about her, I can't lie. That includes telling them what she is like in my home. It also includes telling them that she has a lovely crowing voice. It's a good thing you mentioned her coming back to me if things don't work out, I will definitely stress that. Should it come to re-homing her, I think I will write up a little "formal contract" & make sure they have my phone # for any problems or questions.

Awww, Natalie- I'm so sorry to hear about this. I don't have anything to add, but I know how hard it must be to find a good loving home for her there.
Maybe try advertising in the Mkto area? It wuold be a better shot than looking around our area...

i had raven on amitriptylene from june 2004 until october 2004. he had a flare up of his interstitial cystitis which i believe was triggered by the fact that our apartment was located in an area with LOTS of stray cats. and raven HATES cats roaming outside his windows. the amitriptylene did make him drowsy. and in october after we moved out of state, i had him checked by a vet in town. her evaluation took him off the amitriptylene and prescription food (which didn't stop the UTIs anyway, as they were stress related). he's been stable since then. but my point is he had his anxiety relieved by the medication. we also used a feliway diffuser (with our small apartment we only need one).

i think you may be wrongly characterizing her as a "bad" kitty. some kitties really don't like any other kitty. i grew up with a cat like that. for as long as we had him, it was a one-cat household.

also, some people like to have cats who don't bug them. when i worked for a couple years in a shelter, i was amazed that there really are people who like cats but only want them in the background. have you thought of a home like that? someone who wants a low maintenance cat, they don't have to worry kitty needs loving and attention all the time if they have to work 12-hour shifts or go out of town. it's an idea. good luck with whatever happens.