I seriously regret the day I ever said "yes"....

fluffysimba · Mar 11, 2007

Sometimes we have to make really tuff decisions. When Ophelia attacked Lily so bad to alter her behavior THAT is when something should've been done. it would be like you living with someone you know will come and beat the crap out of you. you'd live in fear, right? It would change your behavior, right? I'm sorry but I think it's cruel to say her attitude changed a year ago with that attack and still Ophelia is there in your home.

You have two choices - find Ophelia a new home NOW or put her down. I have NO patience for vicious animals. Think of Lily and what SHE needs!!!!

goldenkitty45 · Mar 11, 2007

If Ophelia is ok with other cats, I don't see why the need to put her down - she just has an issue with ONE cat - Lily.

I'm wondering if you are willing to invest in one of those walk in stud cages that have lots of benches, cat tree, etc. in it and put Ophelia in there in the basement for her to stay. She would have enough room to live like in a bedroom and would not have contact with Lily and Lily would be safe from Ophelia.

I think I'd get one of those!

kai bengals · Mar 11, 2007

Originally Posted by fluffysimba

You have two choices - find Ophelia a new home NOW or put her down. I have NO patience for vicious animals. Think of Lily and what SHE needs!!!!

That's really harsh. Put her down?

Cats sometimes don't get along, so the only options are to figure out and resolve the problem so everyone is happy, or rehome someone. Putting down the aggressor is not an option in my opinion. She's not vicious, she's uncomfortable with another cat, in this case Lily, so she acts out. Putting her down is a cop-out, there are many other options.

I'm pretty sure you didn't mean how your post came across, so don't take my comments as an attack, I just don't think putting her down is even an option to consider.

urbantigers · Mar 11, 2007

Originally Posted by white cat lover

Things have just gotten way out of hand. I mean, the Lily I know & love is dead & gone. Ophelia killed her a year ago. The Lily I have no has started spraying & there is no medical cause. The Lily I have now bites & scratches. She hides from people & other animals. Even the vet noticed a massive change in the kitty Lily was a year ago to the kitty Lily is now.

I have tears in my eyes reading that. I believe you have no option but rehome Ophelia asap or surrender her to a no kill shelter. Or if those options aren't feasable then I agree with fluffysimba that pts may have to be an option to consider. I know you don't want that and I don't like to see a healthy cat pts but frankly I'd rather that than see your other cat (Lily) being slowly "killed" by Ophelia. I know that seems harsh and I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm criticising you but it sounds like neither Lily nor Opehlia have any quality of life the way things stand at the moment. If you've tried for a year I think it's to call it quits and accept that there's no way these 2 cats can live in the same household.

fluffysimba · Mar 11, 2007

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

If Ophelia is ok with other cats, I don't see why the need to put her down - she just has an issue with ONE cat - Lily.

I'm wondering if you are willing to invest in one of those walk in stud cages that have lots of benches, cat tree, etc. in it and put Ophelia in there in the basement for her to stay. She would have enough room to live like in a bedroom and would not have contact with Lily and Lily would be safe from Ophelia.

I think I'd get one of those!

Hay that would be a cool idea - her own room

fluffysimba · Mar 11, 2007

Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

That's really harsh. Put her down?

Cats sometimes don't get along, so the only options are to figure out and resolve the problem so everyone is happy, or rehome someone. Putting down the aggressor is not an option in my opinion. She's not vicious, she's uncomfortable with another cat, in this case Lily, so she acts out. Putting her down is a cop-out, there are many other options.

I'm pretty sure you didn't mean how your post came across, so don't take my comments as an attack, I just don't think putting her down is even an option to consider.

The cat is attacking one of her other cats to the point of it being cruel letting it happen IMO. She said she's tried to find her a new home and it's not worked. Yes it's harsh but really she needs to rehome her or what other choice is there?!?!? Let her continue to attack this other cat? It's cruel to Lily.

arlyn · Mar 11, 2007

You do realize that Ophelia is generally seperated from Lily?
She simply needs to ensure they stay seperated until Ophelia's issues can be addressed.

And I'm sorry if I offend, but this is how I feel on this matter:

I think putting an animal to sleep for what most likely is a chemical imbalance is wrong.
So, you rehome her and chance this happening to someone else who may, or may not be willing to treat the issue, you have her PTS which is wrong if it can be chemically treated, or you exhaust all avenues and then consider more permanant remedies.

Sorry, but killing, yes killing, an animal due to something beyond it's own control is a cop out.
It takes effort, and time to work through issues, issues that I might add are usually to blame on previous humans in their lives in the first place.

I'd have killed off a bunch of parrots when I was rescuing if I thought that way.

white cat lover · Mar 11, 2007

Originally Posted by fluffysimba

The cat is attacking one of her other cats to the point of it being cruel letting it happen IMO. She said she's tried to find her a new home and it's not worked. Yes it's harsh but really she needs to rehome her or what other choice is there?!?!? Let her continue to attack this other cat? It's cruel to Lily.

I'm sorry, but there is no way in he-double hockey sticks I could ever euthanize her. EVER! As of now, Ophelia is in the basement & Lily is upstairs. There are baby gates at the bottom & top of the stairs. I have shut Ophelia in the office when she's spunky to ensure she cannot get upstairs to Lily(the office has the best bird watching windows & she loves to be in there).

The damage to Lily has been done. All I can do at this point is prevent any other incidents. If the Buspar works on Ophelia...who's to say it won't work on Lily? I have yet to try any medicines for Lily. She has calmed quite a bit, she always freaks out after being attacked. I cannot blame her for that. Lily is also only 1 1/2 years old. Someone pointed out to me that there are many other factors that could influence her behavior. I did change a few things in both Lily & Ophelia's lives before Ophelia lashed out again.

IMO, its cruel to kill a healthy cat & it's cruel to let Lily be attacked. No matter what choice I make, there will be people who disagree with my choice as there will be people who agree. So, I intend on continuing to go out of my way to keep the two separate. I cannot find any shelter to take her, as she has bit a person. I cannot give them medical records without disclosing that, as it is in her medical records(mine, too). When she bit me, it was my fault, but a rescue won't care...she has bitten before, it is possible she will again.

I will look into cages, but I can just as easily shut Ophelia into the office where she has the large room to run. Then there are 2 doors between her & Lily.

Arlyn has a good point. Ophelia likely has a chemical imbalance. Depression in humans is a chemical imbalance. I have two sisters who suffer from depression & have physically/mentally harmed me. I am Lily.

We can debate this all day. I appreciate everyone's input & support.

This is going to come down to a personal decision unless someone here is willing to take Ophelia into their no cat or male only cat home, I will make the decision based on what I feel is right. I will keep everyone updated on her progress & hopefully I will have good news in a matter of weeks. Feel free to keep posting any advice or suggestions, but know I will not euthanize any of my cats. I did not intend for my response to be hurtful or sarcastic, but this is a difficult issue for me to address. Ophelia's fate is in my hands & I just want a simple, clear-cut decision.

fluffysimba · Mar 11, 2007

I can understand why you would want a clear cut decision. I know this isnt easy. I really do like that one persons idea of her own built little room. She could be very comfortable there with her own things. I hope you find the solution.

urbantigers · Mar 12, 2007

Originally Posted by white cat lover

Ophelia's fate is in my hands & I just want a simple, clear-cut decision.

A clear cut decision is what you're not going to get, I'm afraid, as there doesn't seem to be one. You're right, it is your decision. I hope you can find a solution that is fair to all your cats.

carolpetunia · Mar 12, 2007

Originally Posted by fluffysimba

You have two choices - find Ophelia a new home NOW or put her down. I have NO patience for vicious animals. Think of Lily and what SHE needs!!!!

WHAAAT??? That's crazy! She has MANY choices -- and putting her cat down is NOT one of them!

I'm sorry to get so harsh, but... you really need to reconsider this kind of thinking. It's simply wrong and inhumane, and it's also just a terrible thing to say to someone who came here looking for help.

carolpetunia · Mar 12, 2007

Originally Posted by white cat lover

The damage to Lily has been done.

Click to expand...

Oh, I hope that's not true -- maybe Lily can be herself again, once she becomes convinced that she's safe from attack. And yes, medication may be helpful for her as well... it's sure worth a try.

Originally Posted by white cat lover

Ophelia likely has a chemical imbalance. Depression in humans is a chemical imbalance. I have two sisters who suffer from depression & have physically/mentally harmed me. I am Lily.

I so understand. Depression can make you hurt others, and it can also make you more vulnerable to being hurt. But I absolutely believe Lily can recover. Medication is a good start, and you can shower Lily with affection and reassurance to help her regain confidence in herself and trust in her environment. Do the same for Ophelia, to help her feel secure enough not to need to be aggressive. And most of all, I hope you have someone who can give you the same kind of support.

Sending all kinds of healing light for the three of you...

jcat · Mar 12, 2007

I also wouldn't dream of suggesting that Ophelia be euthanized. She's not happy in the present circumstances, and neither is Lily. I think rehoming Ophelia would probably be the simplest route, but dividing the house is an option I'm quite familiar with. Natalie is "thinking out loud" here, exploring the options other than euthanization, as separation, drugs, etc., would only be necessary until she can get a place of her own.

wookie130 · Mar 12, 2007

Nat, I'm jumping into this waayyyy late, and for that I apologize.

Euthanization is not an option. I teach special education, and if I shared the philosophy that every child that I knew that had issues with physical aggression due to disability or a chemical imbalance needed to be DESTROYED, then I guess I wouldn't be accomplishing much in my day to day interactions with them. Period.

I am hesitant to say that medication will be the sole answer here. I believe it may help Ophelia, and even more so if she's placed in a different environment. And removing Ophelia's presence will definitely help Lily. From my experience with medication (in children, mostly), I find that it takes the edge off of the underlying behavior or issue, without entirely eliminating the issue. Now, if you combine the use of medication with a different environment, that may be the answer to everyone's prayers.

I think the most you can hope for at this point is to think of the greater good, in general. Please don't torture yourself with all of the "what-if" questions...there is no clear cut answer to any of them, and you'll be putting yourself through much more heartache and agony than you deserve. I think deep in the recesses of your heart, you know that the greater good for you, Ophelia, and Lily would be to re-home Ophelia. And fortunately, you've been exploring all of ways this can be carried out...

And please go easy on the guilt, if you're able. You tried to give the situation everything you could, and have spent a great deal of effort on trying to make this managable for everyone...there are many people who could not claim this to be true for their own situation. So now, you must act out of love, and think of what is best for Lily, and Ophelia.

Personally, I would opt for a combination of the medication (I'm interested to see how Ophelia will do on the Buspar), and a quiet, single-person home...possibly with a senior, or a retired widow/widower. Something like that. I would eliminate as many variables as possible for Ophelia. No kids, no cats (although you mentioned she loves male cats...but in reality, it may just be Dory), a quiet, single-person environment. No dogs. Ophelia may do very well being the queen of the castle, if you know what I mean, and even better with 1:1 human interaction.

I'm thinking of you. I know you're struggling, and we all feel for your difficult situation. Take care, and know that what you're doing, is being done out of love.

kluchetta · Mar 12, 2007

Originally Posted by wookie130

Nat, I'm jumping into this waayyyy late, and for that I apologize.

Euthanization is not an option. I teach special education, and if I shared the philosophy that every child that I knew that had issues with physical aggression due to disability or a chemical imbalance needed to be DESTROYED, then I guess I wouldn't be accomplishing much in my day to day interactions with them. Period.

I am hesitant to say that medication will be the sole answer here. I believe it may help Ophelia, and even more so if she's placed in a different environment. And removing Ophelia's presence will definitely help Lily. From my experience with medication (in children, mostly), I find that it takes the edge off of the underlying behavior or issue, without entirely eliminating the issue. Now, if you combine the use of medication with a different environment, that may be the answer to everyone's prayers.

I think the most you can hope for at this point is to think of the greater good, in general. Please don't torture yourself with all of the "what-if" questions...there is no clear cut answer to any of them, and you'll be putting yourself through much more heartache and agony than you deserve. I think deep in the recesses of your heart, you know that the greater good for you, Ophelia, and Lily would be to re-home Ophelia. And fortunately, you've been exploring all of ways this can be carried out...

And please go easy on the guilt, if you're able. You tried to give the situation everything you could, and have spent a great deal of effort on trying to make this managable for everyone...there are many people who could not claim this to be true for their own situation. So now, you must act out of love, and think of what is best for Lily, and Ophelia.

Personally, I would opt for a combination of the medication (I'm interested to see how Ophelia will do on the Buspar), and a quiet, single-person home...possibly with a senior, or a retired widow/widower. Something like that. I would eliminate as many variables as possible for Ophelia. No kids, no cats (although you mentioned she loves male cats...but in reality, it may just be Dory), a quiet, single-person environment. No dogs. Ophelia may do very well being the queen of the castle, if you know what I mean, and even better with 1:1 human interaction.

I'm thinking of you. I know you're struggling, and we all feel for your difficult situation. Take care, and know that what you're doing, is being done out of love.

That was a really nice post.

bab-ush-niik · Mar 12, 2007

Natalie,

I just skimmed this entire thing; really sorry for your situation.

I just wanted to add that if you are still considering the medication route, my vet was suggesting Paxil for cats. He said Prozac is fairly common, but he saw more successes with cats on Paxil. He specializes in cats, and I know he keeps up on the literature. Anyway, hope you are able to get things to work out.

white cat lover · Mar 12, 2007

I just keep coming back to the fact that realistically, it will be 6+ months before anyone serious crops up for Ophelia. By that time, I'll be so close to graduating & moving out.... For now, I am exploring my options, trying to find a place for Ophelia(& possibly Dory) to go until I can move out & they can then move into a place with me. We just finished day 2 of Buspar.

Tonight I was watching a movie in my bed. Ophelia was laying between my legs(it was akward for me, but she was so happy). She had her chin on my thigh. She started to purr...she's been doing that the last few nights. Then she kneaded on my leg for a few seconds!

I started crying. She has got to know the heck she's put me through. She's been such a good girl for the past few days.

I vaccinate with a differenet vet than I use for physical exams, behavior probs, etc(this isn't the one who prescribed Buspar). Basically, I vaccinate with this vet because he is in town. He suggested that I see how Ophelia reacts while on Buspar. Then I could consider giving it to Lily. I took Lily in to him to see what he thought & in his opinion, she is just a timid cat. I kept Lily & not her brother as she was timid to start with. Believe it or not, Ophelia only tried to bite the vet. Lily did actually connect & draw blood. It it this vet's opinion that the two can never live together, alone, peacefully....however, he was very adamant in his belief that they can learn to relax around each other. He thinks that maybe I should try installing a screen door at the top of the stairs so they can see each other, but suggested I wait to see how the Buspar afects Ophelia. This vet agrees that it will likely be many months before I can find a home for Ophelia...he would like to see me wait it out until I can move out. He's willing to do anything he can to help me.

kluchetta · Mar 12, 2007

Speaking of Lily...

...as a human who has dealt with depression - many times when the neural pathways of the brain scream "fight or flight"...your entire physioloby becomes skewed to this pattern. The antidepressant helps to bridge that neural pathway - and stops the endlessly repeating pattern.

In other words, (LOL) Lily would also be a great candidate for the antidepressant since she's been so stressed as well!

wookie130 · Mar 13, 2007

Nat, when I read your above post, and you mentioned that Ophelia has been a bit more lovey with you, and "better" lately, I can truly see that how torn you are with the situation...

Hang in there, and keep on trying, if that puts your heart at ease. Medication may help the situation significantly for both Ophelia and Lily...and they could eventually both learn to co-exist and relax in each other's presence, even if they don't have direct contact with each other.

Since you're torn, and having guilt over the possibility of having to find Ophelia a different arrangement, perhaps you do need to give it some more time...just keep the girls as physically separated as you possibly can, try the meds, and see how it goes. This is just as much for YOUR peace of mind, as it is for your girls.

It's also wonderful that you have a vet who is willing to help you with this situation.

Please let us know how it's coming along.

white cat lover · Mar 14, 2007

Something good happened this morning!!

I didn't realize Lily was downstairs when I got up, so I let Dory, Molly, Ophelia, & Damita out of my bedroom. Well, Lily saw Ophelia & ran as usual. Ophelia just sat there. She didn't do anything!! Ophelia's been really cuddly, snuggly, purry... When she would sleep with me before the Buspar, she'd hiss/growl/bite if I moved her. Now, she just moves with me, snuggling against me.

Hopefully, I don't jinx anything by telling you guys this!!!

I seriously regret the day I ever said "yes"....

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