About a Siamese that isn’t a Siamese

Breeders may not want to admit it and its very hard to get them to talk about it if they are actively breeding, but it is TRUE.
If your contact is only with championship Siamese it may be that those you have talked to may not carry the recessive.

For they kittens I know of personally,
There was only one seal point female and one seal point male with absolutely no other possibility of any other cat contact. They are both CFA registered and have no white of any kind on them anywhere. They are owned by a family member of mine (a breeder) and I saw the kittens born and develop their color. White toes on the two back feet. Once it is said that it happened to us, other siamese breeders have admitted to having white toed kittens from time to time also. This usually is admitted to during a pedigree/purchase discussion.

I did find those articles backing up your story I know with Russian Blues - there are "white Russians" in the lines - these are throwbacks to the "blue point" siamese that were bred into the lines during WW2 to save the Russian Blue cats in England. So occasionally you get "pointed" Russians - but the RB breeders to admit to it

Now I understand why the bicolor orientals had such a hard time being accepted - I think they are cool - bicolor and calico orientals - but can see why the siamese (which is outcross for orientals) do NOT want that white spotting gene back into the gene pool!

Oh gosh, I didn't notice the link I had put into my fist post isn't there. I must have done it wrong
I'm glad you found it and added it with your post.

Originally Posted by Denice

I much prefer the traditional Siamese. I really hope that they don't disappear or get down to such small numbers that they start with genetic problems because of too much in-breeding. I know that the extreme type is the only ones that can be shown so that is the type that is bred more but I think among those of us that aren't breeders there is a large following for the traditional Siamese.

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I really wouldn't worry about the disappearance of the Traditional Siamese. There are many traditional Siamese breeders in Thailand itself. The Thais themselves

1. Prefer the traditional cats - the slinkys are considered ugly!

2. Have established a registry of Siamese and Korats which is accepted worldwide.

3. Have an annual cat show concerning these two breeds - awarding the King's Cup and Queen's Cup for best male and female Siamese and Korats.

The cat show is held in adjacent rings to the CFA show every July.

Frankly you'd be surprised at what the Thais think should be "proper" traditional Siamese/Korats to what the rest of the world think is the correct form or look of Siamese. For example, a kinked tail is more than acceptable - as long as the kink does not detract from the whole "look" of the cat.

This year when I go to the show I'll try to get pictures for all of you!

It's good to know that breeders in the country where the Siamese originated are preserving the traditional Siamese.

There are breeders in the US and Europe that are also attempting to preserve the Old-Style Siamese - I am one of them. But unfortunately, there are too few of the healthy, old bloodlines left here for us to gain much, if any ground.

I am currently on a breeding hiatus, but hope to one day import one or more of those cats Abymummy was talking about from Thailand.

Originally Posted by gayef

There are breeders in the US and Europe that are also attempting to preserve the Old-Style Siamese - I am one of them. But unfortunately, there are too few of the healthy, old bloodlines left here for us to gain much, if any ground.

I am currently on a breeding hiatus, but hope to one day import one or more of those cats Abymummy was talking about from Thailand.

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Yes, Gaye. The world (and me) need more George's to love.

Between you and me, I would like to see a little less extreme but not quite the "traditional" look - something in between those two.

I do love that elegant look tho - its breathtaking when the judge stretches out those long bodies and legs

I promise Gaye, that when you are ready, I WILL find the cats for you!

(Easier now - Thailand will be having 3 cat shows a year!!! )

The in-between look is nice too. I have a moggie with that type of build. He has a longer, leaner look than average and a slightly wedge shaped head but nothing like the build of the modern Siamese.

One of the members in here has a siamese that I really like her look - she's not as extreme - I think the cat's name is Sun-Lea or something like that.

Well, you have a couple of lovely boys - and I think it is cute that they pose together. I, like you, am partial to the traditional Siamese, or as I was told they are called "apple-head" Siamese. I am not sure if that is correect or not.
Also, it is great that you provide your boys with live entertainment - i.e. the bird feeders!

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

One of the members in here has a siamese that I really like her look - she's not as extreme - I think the cat's name is Sun-Lea or something like that.

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That would be HopeHacker. Her Sun-Lee is indeed a beautiful girl.

Also, it is great that you provide your boys with live entertainment - i.e. the bird feeders!

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haha yeah there are two feeders but Neko's body is blocking the other one, I still need to fill them, they love to watch the birds but our curtains end up suffering hehe. There is another right outside my bedroom window so they sit on my bed and make that growly meow noise that I can't really describe. They are quite the characters and thanks for the compliments everyone.

Yes SunLee is stunning girl! I also am going for a more in between look. Hopey was actually the biggest girl in her litter.

I like both types of Siamese personally. Although the modern showring fashion is for a very extreme look, I think it is so important that the traditional type is preserved - it would be a tragedy if they were to be lost as a result of current trends. The Siamese cats I knew as a child were of course the traditional type. I think there is a place for both types.

My oriental shorthair does not have such an extreme look, not because of a deliberate breeding policy, but because he was the one who seemed to come out with all his features not quite right for the showring despite having a great pedigree. He was a good choice for us though, because Nate is not keen on the very extreme look so Sonic is for us a nice compromise, he looks cute to both of us. His legs are extremely long though, he is going into the very gangly stage of kittenhood and reminds me slightly of a miniature giraffe, I am sure it will all balance out a bit in time

Originally Posted by Epona

My oriental shorthair does not have such an extreme look, not because of a deliberate breeding policy, but because he was the one who seemed to come out with all his features not quite right for the showring despite having a great pedigree. He was a good choice for us though, because Nate is not keen on the very extreme look so Sonic is for us a nice compromise, he looks cute to both of us. His legs are extremely long though, he is going into the very gangly stage of kittenhood and reminds me slightly of a miniature giraffe, I am sure it will all balance out a bit in time

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I'm off-topic here and late in telling you that I think your Sonic is very, very handsome. I've admired him from afar for quite some time now.

Originally Posted by xenawonteat

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those crossed eyes are absolutely adorable. A flaw the breeders are trying to breed away from, but still. Cute!

Oh! I love this kitty!!!! I know the cross-eyes are not considered a desired trait, but how cute is that baby.

Just thought i'd add a picture of my Topaz - she is 'between' modern and traditional.



And her brother, Leo:



I also love the very refined modern look. I have just been to a cat show here in the UK and the modern Siamese are simply stunning!