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Is My Purebred a Show Type or a Pet Type?

post #1 of 15
Thread Starter 
Thought I would give a little guidelines on some differences between a show cat vs a pet cat in purebreds in case some are looking for the difference or getting into breeding.

What should you look for in evaluating a pet vs. show? In many purebreds, you might have a hard time evaluating a litter of kittens into pet or show. First of all, the breeder should be the most critical of their own cats. They should know the written standard inside and out, show their own cats, talk to other breeders, and see just what is out there - they should not be "cattery blind". A person that breeds their cats and thinks they are great can only prove that by being around other breeders in the show ring. They should also be studying pedigrees and knowing what lines produce the Grand Champions of their breed.

Its not good enough for a cat to only have champions or grands 4 or 5 or more generations in the past - when you are shopping around for a top show cat or breeding cat, you want to see champions and grands in the first 3 generations! That means your cat is close to the written standard and should produce more show types then pet types.

When breeding cats, the same applies - you look for top quality. Its very hard to "breed up". The differences in pet and show are little things. Maybe the ears are too big or too small; maybe the body is too long (in the case of persians/himis). Maybe the color is faded. Maybe (with rexes) the coat is not as curly as it should be. These pet kittens are good kittens, just that they should not be shown or bred. Its minor things. But a good breeder will be critical in evaluating their kittens they produce. If they are not breeding cats to the standard and to improve their own cats, they should not be producing more kittens to basically sell as pets.

When a person goes looking for a purebred to show, they too should be almost as informed on what the cat looks like as the breeder is. They should know the standard as well. Not just take the breeders word "this is a good show cat".

When I was showing my cats, I would sit in the front row or near the sides to listen to the judges "critique" the cats and kittens. Good breeders usually have an "eye" for type - they know the standard well enough to tell good from bad examples.

While a breeder may not like the style that is currently being shown, if they want to show and breed, they almost have to have more extreme cats then desired. Otherwise, all they do is produce mediocre cats and have to sell them as pets, cause they just are not gonna win in the show rings.

So stop and think about WHY you are breeding or WHY you want to show. We (as breeders) have an obligation to produce top quality cats whether they are in the show ring or a fancy pet - not just to produce purebred cats.
post #2 of 15
A most excellent thread.

When a person embarks on the purebred journey either as 'just' an owner or as a show/breeder, it IS important to know where and on what your money is being spent on!

A really good example is GK herself. She set out to just own a pet Ocicat and ended up with a show neuter. How come? What made the difference in the cat himself from being pet quality vs. show quality?

As a breeder it is important to know your breed standards inside and out - for any or all the registries that your cat(s) may be registered with. But just knowing is not enough, understanding the breed standards is also important.

And really, for some breeds, it is easier to determine quality than from others - why? Because the "faults" are obvious - even in pictures! And for other breeds, more detailed pictures are necessary - that's why you see GK and myself more often then not asking for side shots or profile shots!

I hope this thread continues. It would be great to see more people jump in with comments on breeds and 'types'.

After all, as breeders, we do want to breed the "ultimate" cat of our chosen breed, don't we?
post #3 of 15
Let me start by saying that I don't know about showing cats. I don't know much about many other breeds other than Traditional Siamese. I was hesitant in responding because I'm not combative and I really don't want a debate. I'm not up for it. I just wanted to voice my opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
While a breeder may not like the style that is currently being shown, if they want to show and breed, they almost have to have more extreme cats then desired. Otherwise, all they do is produce mediocre cats and have to sell them as pets, cause they just are not gonna win in the show rings.
I don't think that Traditional Siamese are mediocre cats. I think my pets are exquisite! I understand that the show ring has moved away from that look. If and when the tide moves back to more of a Traditional look then I won't agree that a more extreme look is mediocre. Just a difference in preference.

I appreciate this thread because up until that point I was learning. I think there is a way to get points across without being discourteous to the countless number of people who love Traditional Siamese and other traditional breeds.
post #4 of 15
siameseohio, I think you've misconstrued the point of the thread.

Traditional Siamese breeders should be given all due respect, IMO. Such an uphill climb to preserve the breed - and these breeders should be saluted! And really, traditional cat breeders are a completely different kettle of fish to what GK had intended - since Traditional Siamese cats are not "shown" or "competed". But then again, there are standards by which traditional cat breeders are bound to uphold none the less.

I think the point of the thread is to direct breeders/ cat show exhibitors to understand breed standards as dictated by the different registries. This thread IMO is meant for those of use who breed cats that do get shown and do compete for titles and Awards. This thread is also meant for those who seek purebred cats so that they themselves may be able to distinguish pet from breeder or show.

In a nutshell, it is important for all breeders, especially those as specified above to try and adhere to the breed standards. It is of no use to breed pet quality cats without even attempting to try and better the breed. If your bloodlines (pedigree) only has Champions (without the Distinguished Merits) then as a breeder you already know that your lines are not good enough to compete in the show rings and that you would be probably be breeding more Champions and Pet quality kittens, and if you're very lucky, you would breed the Grand Champion.

When I started breeding Abyssinians, I had an image in my mind of what my idea of the ultimate Aby would be. And to be able to produce such a cat, I searched the world over for the perfect ears, eyes, muzzle, body etc. that would conform to the breed standards and my interpretation of it. I identified the catteries and the pedigrees that I needed to be able to produce such a cat and I put aside the estimated sum of money to do so.

Breeding the 'perfect' cat is a long love affair. Understanding the breed standards and being able to read pedigrees is a large part of it. In my 3 litters so far, I know that I have bred at least 3 Grand Premiers, 1 Grand Champion, a breeder and a couple of pets, but by being on this side of the world, it's very hard to prove simply because there aren't enough shows to justify my claims!

So, in another post, I will attempt to explain the differences between pet, show and breeder quality cats hmmmm?
post #5 of 15
Thread Starter 
Also, in my case of breeding cornish rexes; I studied many catteries/lines, and the standard. Before my females were bred, I had a copy of the pedigree of the male to compare to my female and I saw the male I was breeding to. I also knew what kind of cats he had produced. Males are probably more important in a breeding program then females. Most breeders can only have one or two whole males in their house so you HAVE to have THE BEST male to breed to your females.

Because I took the time to study pedigrees and was careful on who my female was bred to, my cats produced 80-90% show quality kittens - only a few were really "pet" quality. Were all the show quality shown? No - only about half of them - the rest were bought as pets; however IF the new owner had wanted to get into showing they had a quality cat to do so. So it was not like "oh I want to show my cat, put in a pet quality, and be VERY disappointed".
post #6 of 15
Thank you Abymummy for taking the time to explain. Apparently I may of misunderstood what GK was saying. In being a lover of Traditional Siamese I've encountered people who show cats and they believe that Traditional cats and Traditional Siamese in particular should not be bred at all because they aren't able to be shown. I thought that is what I was reading in that paragraph, but I see that I must of been wrong. I do apologize for my misinterpretation of what GK was saying.
post #7 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by siameseohio View Post
Thank you Abymummy for taking the time to explain. Apparently I may of misunderstood what GK was saying. In being a lover of Traditional Siamese I've encountered people who show cats and they believe that Traditional cats and Traditional Siamese in particular should not be bred at all because they aren't able to be shown. I thought that is what I was reading in that paragraph, but I see that I must of been wrong. I do apologize for my misinterpretation of what GK was saying.
IMHO, traditional Siamese cats ROCK!!!! I personally prefer the appleheads myself! And as luck would have it, my country is right next to Thailand and I am able to see, at least yearly, the real thing!!!!
post #8 of 15
A pet quality kitten is an individual who fails to meet the written standard for the breed in some significant manner. There may be a disqualifiable fault such as a white locket or a tail kink. A pet quality example is never intended for breeding purposes and may cost between $300 and $500, or more.

A breeder quality kitten is a kitten which could be used in a breeding program. Such a kitten meets the written standard in several significant ways and has no disqualifiable faults. A breeder quality kitten may be of good enough quality to be shown but generally speaking, these cats rarely achieve honors past the Champion level. Kittens in this category are generally between $500 and $1000.

A show quality kitten is one which can and should be exhibited to the level of Grand Champion. Kittens of show quality are those which meet the written standard nearly perfectly. But there are gradations in this group. A top show quality kitten is one which is near perfection when measured by the standard for the breed. These kittens are generally very expensive and can command prices as high as $15,000 in some breeds. Generally speaking, a show quality kitten will be over $1000.
post #9 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abymummy View Post
AThese kittens are generally very expensive and can command prices as high as $15,000 in some breeds. Generally speaking, a show quality kitten will be over $1000.
OUCH!!! $15,000.00! That hurts. What breeds go for that much?
post #10 of 15
Thread Starter 
That's the price of a new car! lol

Ohio, maybe in 50-100 yrs the more moderate/traditional siamese will be in the show rings. I see the beauty in both; however I perfer the long elegent bodies

I do admit that it does seem that its going TOO extreme. Like Aby says, the traditional siamese do have a "standard" they are supposed to be breeding to in order to keep it "on track" and consistent. If you are not breeding towards consistency, then you are doing a diservice to your breed.

My first female rex was more/less a "breeding" rex - the breeder never really expected her to make more then championship but she had great lines behind her and she did give me most of my grand champion offspring. But I surprised my breeder - Lady DID make grand champion eventually
post #11 of 15
In reguard to the extremes, as a good Arabian breeder friend of mine said. It only takes one person to buck the system, and one animal to change the minds of people who think "extremes" are "In"

I tend to agree with that. Because I feel alot of the current extreme style persians are suffering with un-needed respitory issues.

But that aside, Great thread made me whimper and wish I was at the show i was supposed to be at this weekend. but to much snow. UGH!
post #12 of 15
Thread Starter 
Scamper, any possibility of getting the either the ACFA shows in April/May here in the twin city area or the CFA September show in Maple Grove? We could meet up - I'm planning on having Charlie at those shows
post #13 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by siameseohio View Post
OUCH!!! $15,000.00! That hurts. What breeds go for that much?
Persians! The last I heard a recent CFA National Winner (proven) has been sold overseas (not saying where, but NOT Malaysia) for about US$10,000!
post #14 of 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Scamper, any possibility of getting the either the ACFA shows in April/May here in the twin city area or the CFA September show in Maple Grove? We could meet up - I'm planning on having Charlie at those shows
Do you have the info. I am still learning with the ACFA stuff. But its a possiblity for sure. Caesar needs to get some shows under his fluffy little belt. Pm me with some info would be great to meet up!
post #15 of 15
Thread Starter 
I sent you a message on the ACFA and CFA shows

Waiting to see if Nial and his Bengals can come up to the ACFA shows
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