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Free Speech at its' Finest or Worst

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/M...the_schoolyard



and the other side to be fair and balanced.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/...n/16808652.htm


Professor Pino of Kent State loves terrorists it seems. And he is teaching your children. Using our Free Speec against us. He is worse than Ward Churchill the professor from Colorada.
post #2 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/M...the_schoolyard



and the other side to be fair and balanced.

http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/living/...n/16808652.htm


Professor Pino of Kent State loves terrorists it seems. And he is teaching your children. Using our Free Speec against us. He is worse than Ward Churchill the professor from Colorada.
OMG! I took classes from that guy! He didn't see to be too off kilter if you know what I mean.

I don't know what to say.
post #3 of 25
Thread Starter 
Wow, Lookinglass, that is scary.

Check out some of the comments people have made in the 2nd link, the one to the Ohio Beacon Journal.
Some people posted that they had also take his classes. One guy said he admitted to the class that he gave money to terrorist organizations.
post #4 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Wow, Lookinglass, that is scary.

Check out some of the comments people have made in the 2nd link, the one to the Ohio Beacon Journal.
Some people posted that they had also take his classes. One guy said he admitted to the class that he gave money to terrorist organizations.
Well, I don't agree with anything that he has to say, but he has a right to say it. Unless he's done anything illegal, they have no right to fire him. His view may be unpopular, but that is what the University system is all about. That is where you learn to make your own decisions.
post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
I have a problem with Professors that teach our children to hate America and teach our children to be terrorist sympathizers. I think these guys use our Free Speech against us to undermine our nation and it is despicable.

I would think that Homeland and the FBI have their eye on him by now, I would hope so.

Where does free speech end and traitor begin?
post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
I have a problem with Professors that teach our children to hate America and teach our children to be terrorist sympathizers. I think these guys use our Free Speech against us to undermine our nation and it is despicable.

I would think that Homeland and the FBI have their eye on him by now, I would hope so.

Where does free speech end and traitor begin?
At the University level you aren't a child anymore, you are an adult. If a professor is saying something you don't agree with you are obligated to bring out why you think he or she is wrong.

Free speech is a tricky thing, but it is his absolute right to say the things that he does.

To me he isn't a traitor at all.
post #7 of 25
Townhall- where your opinion counts...

As long as your a right-winger

Are you on Free Republic ckblv as you sure remind me of the posters on there?

I might not agree with the guy but he has a right to his opinions.
post #8 of 25
His views are his and he as the right to them, no matter how much bull they are. He has the rights to express those view in the paper and in the web site

however he crossed the lone with sending students email saying things like victory or martydom. i would take that to mean he would be at risk for being a suicide bomber,
and now has no business being around or teaching at a public funded school..
he needs to go end of story. aalso if he gave money to groups in support of bombings he needs to be in a jail cell
post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
At the University level you aren't a child anymore, you are an adult. If a professor is saying something you don't agree with you are obligated to bring out why you think he or she is wrong.
You are 100% right, i have told a couple of professor to shut up and teach the class.
or they had there facts all wrong. but then i am not that friendly looking,and kinda got away with it.
post #10 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
You are 100% right, i have told a couple of professor to shut up and teach the class.
or they had there facts all wrong. but then i am not that friendly looking,and kinda got away with it.
I'm a girl with a high pitched voice and can sound dumb. I've told my History Professor to get off her high horse and teach. She almost threw me out of class. I really didn't care.
post #11 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
I'm a girl with a high pitched voice and can sound dumb. I've told my History Professor to get off her high horse and teach. She almost threw me out of class. I really didn't care.
cool!!!
post #12 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
Townhall- where your opinion counts...

As long as your a right-winger

Are you on Free Republic ckblv as you sure remind me of the posters on there?

I might not agree with the guy but he has a right to his opinions.

As a matter of fact I got the link for this from the drudge report which I read every day.


I think what this man is doing is sedition pure and simple.
post #13 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
As a matter of fact I got the link for this from the drudge report which I read every day.


I think what this man is doing is sedition pure and simple.
For sedition to take place, doesn't there have to be an officially declared war?
post #14 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
For sedition to take place, doesn't there have to be an officially declared war?
I thought America was at war...

A war on verbs on something
post #15 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by silentNate View Post
I thought America was at war...

A war on verbs on something
It's funny that you say that, we aren't. It takes an Act of Congress to declare war. One was never sought.
post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 
Personally, I don't find War to be funny. Esp not to our military that sacrifice much to me there. Whether war was declared or not we are at war, don't you agree? I bet the soldiers fight it would.
post #17 of 25
One of the great things about this country is that you are able to dig your own grave with your own words. If he supports terrorism in any real way, i.e. assisting in organizing or planning attacks, giving money to terrorist organizations, etc., then he can and will be prosecuted for doing so. If he's just a blow hard pansy like Ward Churchill, he will be exposed as such. Freedom of speech works both ways, and just as he is able to spout his ideas, the other side can expose him.

Just as a bit of an aside, the last time that America was acutally at "War" (declared) was World War II. We did not declare war in Korea, Bosnia, Somalia, Guatamala, Viet Nam, against Russia in the Cold War, in Afghanistan, or Iraq. This is hardly precident setting. It is officially a "police action", not war. That word has been thrown around quite loosly - the "War" on drugs has been going on longer, with more casualties, and less effectiveness than the "War" on terror, but yet you don't see the kind of protests and opposition against the first "war".
post #18 of 25
Oh, Kent State. My first degree is from Kent, and many of my friends still go there.

He was on the panel for one of my classes on Terrorism once. I remember a girl in the class from Palestine, who was very reformed Islamic, disagreed with pretty much everything that came out of his mouth.

If I may add a link to our paper: http://media.www.stateronline.com/me...-2753921.shtml

Alot of my friends are to'd about it too. I can't remember if this is the same guy who told a friend of mine in class that the people who died in New York and DC and elsewise on 9/11 deserved it or not. But I believe so.

I personally think he should get kicked out of school, if for no other reason than that as a professor and academic he should be presenting an unbiased viewpoint, not pursuing a political agenda. Maybe our new president will finally do something.

And please note he is a convert. He is as American as any of y'all, and converted to Islam while studying, somehow, latin revolutions.
post #19 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
One of the great things about this country is that you are able to dig your own grave with your own words. If he supports terrorism in any real way, i.e. assisting in organizing or planning attacks, giving money to terrorist organizations, etc., then he can and will be prosecuted for doing so. If he's just a blow hard pansy like Ward Churchill, he will be exposed as such. Freedom of speech works both ways, and just as he is able to spout his ideas, the other side can expose him.

Exactly. We do have free speech here. That means the government shouldn't censor stuff like that. But no where is he guaranteed protection from the backlash that happens when he opens his stupid mouth. If his employer chooses to fire him (and I think they should) that is his own problem. If people choose to use their own free speech and oppose him, then that is their right as well.

Reminds me of the Dixie Chicks. Sure they have the right to say what they want and even where they say it. But they sure don't have the right to say that others shouldn't have their own say in response. BooHoo, people aren't going to our concerts anymore. That's not right, they shouldn't not buy our CD's because of what we said. Too bad, you should have thought of that before you pissed off most of your fans. THEY have rights too. THEY have the right to express their opinions too. Sorry if their opinion is hitting you in the pocket book.

As for this guy.... well he is almost crossing the lines to aiding the enemy. It is one thing to say I think this.... and another to actually give money to their cause.
post #20 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Oh, Kent State. My first degree is from Kent, and many of my friends still go there.

He was on the panel for one of my classes on Terrorism once. I remember a girl in the class from Palestine, who was very reformed Islamic, disagreed with pretty much everything that came out of his mouth.

If I may add a link to our paper: http://media.www.stateronline.com/me...-2753921.shtml

Alot of my friends are to'd about it too. I can't remember if this is the same guy who told a friend of mine in class that the people who died in New York and DC and elsewise on 9/11 deserved it or not. But I believe so.

I personally think he should get kicked out of school, if for no other reason than that as a professor and academic he should be presenting an unbiased viewpoint, not pursuing a political agenda. Maybe our new president will finally do something.

And please note he is a convert. He is as American as any of y'all, and converted to Islam while studying, somehow, latin revolutions.
I agree, he as the right, to his views, however if what i heard on wtam(internet radio is a good thing) is right, then he crossed the line, between his views, and moved into danger areas. however the only view i saw from the professors when i was at kent was the super ulta liberal view . Sounds like he is not giving a unbiased view to me at all. Somtimes you have to pick a side. He picked his. get rid of him. I am not going to support him with my tax dollars.

he needs to go . in fact, if he did do those things, he need to be stripped of US rights, and shipped in a very small box to some country
post #21 of 25
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that free speech does entitle you to express your opinions and also speak out against your government without fear of retribution - which is the most important aspect of it IMO.

However, there are times when people protest their right to free speech as an excuse to incite hatred and violence. And that is where, I believe, the line can be drawn.

I feel that it is the responsibility of a university professor to present a fair and unbiased, balanced viewpoint for teaching as far as they are able. A classroom is not the correct forum for pushing religious/political beliefs, but should be a forum for providing ALL of the information and encouraging students to be open-minded enough to make their own decisions.

There are plenty of other places one can express what they believe, and have access to their right for free speech, as long as the intent is not to incite hatred and violence, criminal acts and so forth. That is when it ceases to be free speech and begins to be more suspect.

The best example I can think of is that it is illegal to publicly deny the Holocaust. And I think that should be punishable. You don't have to believe in it, you don't have to agree that it happened, but to get up and denounce and deny it to others to encourage them to the same belief, in a public forum, is illegal, and it should be. That is NOT exercising your right to free speech.

I feel that the same can be said of this man - there is a time and a place, but when it stops being free speech and starts being fundamentalist radicalism - whether you are Muslim, Christian, radically right- or left-wing, environmentalist, gay rights. It doesn't matter. There's a time and a place, and the classroom is not one of them. He has every right to express his views and I don't feel he should be denied that, but to express such radical Islamic views in an American university seems inappropriate for a member of staff, whilst I feel it would be quite acceptable as a viewpoint of students, for example, who are not in the same position of authority and responsibility.
post #22 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
I agree, he as the right, to his views, however if what i heard on wtam(internet radio is a good thing) is right, then he crossed the line, between his views, and moved into danger areas. however the only view i saw from the professors when i was at kent was the super ulta liberal view . Sounds like he is not giving a unbiased view to me at all. Somtimes you have to pick a side. He picked his. get rid of him. I am not going to support him with my tax dollars.he needs to go. in fact, if he did do those things, he need to be stripped of US rights, and shipped in a very small box to some country
Where, though? He's American. I think he's from, like, Brooklyn or something. IMO, Kent is about as liberal as the area of the state it is in, not like Oberlin or something. I agree though, I hate when professors shove politics down your throat.
He did cross the line, and he should not be there anymore. He went wayyy beyond an opinion and into the purely offensive sort of thing not covered by free speech.

And most of the students want him gone. There's a huge Facebook group about it.
post #23 of 25
Quote:
I think, and correct me if I'm wrong, that free speech does entitle you to express your opinions and also speak out against your government without fear of retribution - which is the most important aspect of it IMO.
You have the right to free speech without the government coming and throwing you in jail. You never are free of 'retribution' from others, as long as they don't break any laws. Making you immune to the consequences of your action (or words) would be taking away the free speech of others.
post #24 of 25
Retribution by the govt... meaning, you can't be thrown in jail for speaking in disagreement with your government. That is the keystone of American democracy. If leaders are truly freely elected, we are their bosses (collectively) and speaking our disagreement (or at least being able to) is vital to that. It is something we seem to take for granted here.
post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
You have the right to free speech without the government coming and throwing you in jail. You never are free of 'retribution' from others, as long as they don't break any laws. Making you immune to the consequences of your action (or words) would be taking away the free speech of others.
I meant free from retribution by the government - i.e. getting arrested because you speak against them, etc. I didn't mean retribution by others. It was put well below...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Retribution by the govt... meaning, you can't be thrown in jail for speaking in disagreement with your government. That is the keystone of American democracy. If leaders are truly freely elected, we are their bosses (collectively) and speaking our disagreement (or at least being able to) is vital to that. It is something we seem to take for granted here.
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