Raw Feeding Chronicles....

Originally Posted by Tari

Forest was the only one of mine that I could get to eat the NV medallions (not a surprise...that cat will eat ANYTHING). He did pretty good on half canned and half medallions for a while, then suddenly he started throwing up every time he ate the medallions, so we had to stop giving them to him. I decided after that to take a bit of a break from pressing the raw issue and give everyone's tummies a chance to settle down.

Now, though, the canned food I had switched them to because it didn't contain wheat gluten has been recalled, so I really don't know what to do now.

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HOMEMADE????

Originally Posted by sharky

HOMEMADE????

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Sharky, can you please give me a homemade recipe?? I'm at my wits end..Tucker ate raw fine once then threw up the second time. Now he won't even touch his canned food I'm ready to try homemade
Hopefully he'll eat it

Hopefully home made will be the answer for Tucker.

I'm sorry to hear that the medallions didn't agree with Forest's tummy either.

Junior decided that he likes the home made raw. I think it was just too cold when I offered it to him before. I started using a meat thermometer for my "warm up" water so I'm sure not to over do it...I'm getting pretty good at sensing 85 degrees with my finger.

Momma's keen on the NV beef now. She likes variety, I guess. Her stomach is working well, so that's good enough for me!

Damita just plain isn't eating anything....at all.

Originally Posted by sharky

HOMEMADE????

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I'm thinking that might be the way we have to go. Both Tailer and Harvey LOVE to eat raw meat, so maybe they'd be more accepting. I'd also be very interested in a recipe for homemade, if you have one.

The kitties might be vomiting due to the type of raw they're getting? Bagheera can hold down chicken no problem (she's the touchy tummy one), but if I give her lamb or beef, it's all over my floor five or ten minutes later..

Just as an FYI, and who knows how accurate this is (and let me tell you, I about had to go to Pender and slap the vet tech, the impertinate little.. :trails off muttering something about commercially balanced pet foods .. anyway, after the lecture, we determined from the vet on duty that melamine doesn't stick in the muscle meats of chicken (for the contamination among human grade chickens).. so if you're feeding muscle meats only, you're in good shape, but they suggested that I do NOT feed any chicken organ meats until after this is all blown over. What she said was it's carried in the blood stream.

So, I'm feeding white and dark meat chicken right now, beef.. and I guess I'm going to try to find organ meats and other meats that they'll eat to get in the extra vitamins. I was about in tears when I read that stupid article. I just couldn't even think of what I was going to feed my babies.. all the cat food I feed has chicken in it, and then there's the raw. There is like no safe haven in this. I went and looked at free range chicken prices.. and it's like $6 to $8 a pound around here. I just can't afford to feed that for four months or however long this is going to take. They're eating at least a pound a day, and that's if I don't give it to the girls.

Didn't these dumbasses get in enough trouble with mad cow disease by feeding cow to the cows? I mean, you *know* that the commercial cat food they fed those chickens had chicken in it. I swear some people!

Well, anyway, before I got on that small rant... the point here was, if you're feeding raw chicken, supposedly it's okay to feed the muscle meats but not organ meats.

Originally Posted by CatsAreBetter

The kitties might be vomiting due to the type of raw they're getting? Bagheera can hold down chicken no problem (she's the touchy tummy one), but if I give her lamb or beef, it's all over my floor five or ten minutes later..

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I'm slowly learning how to feed Momma and avoid the vomiting...she does vomit the lamb (no huge surprise), she does ok with chicken or beef...but if I give her one iota more than an ounce, it comes up. She's a small cat (not quite 8lbs) so 3oz/day should be sufficient anyway, but she's usually still begging after the ounce at each meal, so I just give her some canned food at that point. Then it all stays down 98% of the time.

Originally Posted by CatsAreBetter

Well, anyway, before I got on that small rant... the point here was, if you're feeding raw chicken, supposedly it's okay to feed the muscle meats but not organ meats.

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Given the news, I guess it's not relevant, but I'm still curious - where are you getting chicken hearts? I ended up buying two packages of "gizzards and hearts*" *mostly gizzards to come up with 7oz of hearts for half a batch of food (actually I was 1/2oz short). Those mixed packs seemed cheap (a dollar something each) but when I did the math I felt like an idiot, because I essentially paid $6.50/lb for hearts. I called around a little and the most promising answer was a 40# box of mixed hearts and gizzards...I didn't even ask the price as I don't want 30+ lbs of gizzards, which is probably what's in the mixed box. It's hard enough to use up what I had.

So I did find out that beef heart is much more economical ($1.99/lb) and readily available.

I started another thread looking for a new food for my kitties, but thought I'd jump in here because I thought that in light of my difficulties finding a replacement food for my babies due to the recall of the Nutro cans (the only thing they have ever eaten in their lives), I would try converting toa raw diet. Breakfast today was my second attempt (we tried dinner last night, too).

I bought Stella and Chewy's frozen patties. They are chicken. Neither Linus nor Lolabel will touch it, so I took some and smeared it on each of their paws. Lola was quick to clean it off of her, but it took Linus a lot more time before he would go there.

I'm wondering if I should take my time with this method or if I should be trying other brands and flavors of patties. Not sure what to do.

Anyone have any other suggestions as to how I might be more successful to get them to take to this? I am not able to use more conventional methods of transitioning them because the only wet food they WILL eat has been recalled. We've tried the Wellness and Innova canned, but they won't take to them. Other products I've found contain fish, and I don't feed them fish. They will eat Wellness dry food, because one of their two meals a day is this when I have to travel for work, but I'd really rather not wind up with two kitties on a dry food diet.

Help! I just want to give my babies the most healthy and nutritious thing available. I wish they could understand that, rather than scoff at the good food I'm trying to feed them!

We haven't tried the Stella and Chewy's...I remember that it seemed pretty expensive but I'm not sure of the palatability factor.

Mine took to the Nature's Variety pretty easily, but others have had to work pretty hard to transition to those. I guess it just depends on the cats.

When I made some home made raw, 3 of my cats would not even taste it. 2 of them took some from my finger and got over their hesitation after that. For the 3rd one I sprinkled a few kibble crumbs (Raw Instinct) on top and she ate it that way. That was this morning so it remains to be seen if she'll eat it without the "sprinkles".

If your cats like chunky wet cat food, maybe they would eat chunks of raw meat? If they would eat that, then maybe you could use that to bribe them into eating the pre-made "complete" patties. I don't know, may be a stretch...just an idea.

Originally Posted by CatsAreBetter

The kitties might be vomiting due to the type of raw they're getting?

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Tucker was doing really well on the NV chicken/turkey and then I introduced him to beef. He was fine on beef until I started alternating between the two kinds of meat..then he started throwing up on beef. I stopped giving the beef to him...he wouldn't eat any raw for several days...I put crushed Wildside Salmon on top...finally he started eating chicken/turkey again but threw up the second day that he ate it
Now he doesn't want anything but his dry food
Last night I gave him a new canned food, Wellness Turkey and Salmon and he did try a couple of bites so I'm hoping that he at least starts eating some canned.

BEEF.....It what they Barf!

Originally Posted by CatsAreBetter

The kitties might be vomiting due to the type of raw they're getting? Bagheera can hold down chicken no problem (she's the touchy tummy one), but if I give her lamb or beef, it's all over my floor five or ten minutes later..

Well, anyway, before I got on that small rant... the point here was, if you're feeding raw chicken, supposedly it's okay to feed the muscle meats but not organ meats.

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I have been freaking out over this too. I have been making homemade raw chicken for a month now. I had 6 out of seven eating it, then this last batch I went down to 4 !/2 eating. I was worried about the chicken contamination so I bought 6 pounds of free range grass fed beef. ( I live in cattle country so this is one thing that is readily available.) I got the liver and heart too. I was so excited. Made a huge batch.....I had two try just a small amount, not even a teaspoon and they barfed it back up None of the others would even try it off my finger.

I am glad that at least the muscle is supposed to be safe in the chicken.

Originally Posted by beandip

I'm slowly learning how to feed Momma and avoid the vomiting...she does vomit the lamb (no huge surprise), she does ok with chicken or beef...but if I give her one iota more than an ounce, it comes up. She's a small cat (not quite 8lbs) so 3oz/day should be sufficient anyway, but she's usually still begging after the ounce at each meal, so I just give her some canned food at that point. Then it all stays down 98% of the time.

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I am having problems with this. If I feed raw and then let them have some canned....barfs again. I feel so bad for them. I am starting to get paranoid and wondering if everyone is developing blockages. I don't want to feed dry anymore and canned is too darn expensive for a crew of seven 14-16 pounders! I would have to feed each 2 cans a day, they don't want to eat that much.

Originally Posted by beandip

.I didn't even ask the price as I don't want 30+ lbs of gizzards, which is probably what's in the mixed box. It's hard enough to use up what I had.

.

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Gizzards are just NASTY! I added them to my last batch because I though they would be good....supposedly gizzards and hearts. I am wondering if the two that decided raw was "not so good" this last batch was because of the really gnarly gizzards.

Originally Posted by kittiesx2

Tucker was doing really well on the NV chicken/turkey and then I introduced him to beef. He was fine on beef until I started alternating between the two kinds of meat..then he started throwing up on beef. I stopped giving the beef to him...he wouldn't eat any raw for several days...I put crushed Wildside Salmon on top...finally he started eating chicken/turkey again but threw up the second day that he ate it

Now he doesn't want anything but his dry food

Last night I gave him a new canned food, Wellness Turkey and Salmon and he did try a couple of bites so I'm hoping that he at least starts eating some canned.

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I am getting to this point with Lola, She is starting to just not want to eat anything....not even the old standby dry. My cats are fat....they cannot stop eating.

I get the packages of hearts and gizzards. I also occasionally get livers, which are also cheap, and chop them down. When they boycott the liver, i sometimes grind it and mix it over everything so they can't pick out everything else. Mine, well the two on raw regularly, like hearts and gizzards and will sit there screaming at me while I'm cutting them. They are usually more gizzards than heart.

BTW, also found out from the Safeway that they'll chop down or slice any product other than poultry. They're not allowed to open the poultry packages, but they're willing to cut down beef any way you want it. So, this might be a time saver for those of you making y our own raw.

Kittiemonsters, maybe try some canned tuna? What I do with mine when I make them something that they refuse to eat, is I'll then mix it in with chicken. Mostly chicken, with just a little of that. And just slowly put more in. If you have a supplement, toss that in. If you don't have one and you're worried, order one online. I got my Wildtrax in about a week and it cost me less than $20. It's a huge container, and with regular use I haven't even gone through half of it yet (since December).

I'm not sure.. how fresh is the stuff that they've been vomiting? I know you just said the one is a fresh batch of beef, but I know that with mine (and maybe they have a sixth sense about it or something that I don't know), they'll eat the first two servings out of a bag, and then sometimes they'll disdain the third. No rhyme or reason to it.

I'd also seen somewhere that if they're eating dry along with the raw.. raw is digested much faster than the dry, and the dry stays in their system much longer.. so if they eat dry right before they eat raw, it might be a blockage. I did notice that Joyeux went from her original constipation to having the squirts.. and she seems to have leveled off now.. but what I did was start taking away the dry about an hour before she got the raw, so it had a bit of time to digest. It's not always effective but for the most part it seems to be working. Bagheera doesn't seem to have a problem with her sensitive tummy and raw chicken, though.

kittiesx2, the only thing I can think of is let him eat dry for a bit.. mine like sheeba cat food, canned tuna.. and I've been staying away from all cat food chicken, or trying to. I mix the tuna or cat food with their raw and they chomp on it happily. The two I'm converting are currently on Evo, and they're just learning about raw, so.. we'll see how it goes. They all seem to be quite happy getting the tuna, though. In fact, I've got an excited little crew following me to the kitchen every time I go in there now.

Originally Posted by kittiesx2

Tucker was doing really well on the NV chicken/turkey and then I introduced him to beef. He was fine on beef until I started alternating between the two kinds of meat..then he started throwing up on beef. I stopped giving the beef to him...he wouldn't eat any raw for several days...I put crushed Wildside Salmon on top...finally he started eating chicken/turkey again but threw up the second day that he ate it

Now he doesn't want anything but his dry food

Last night I gave him a new canned food, Wellness Turkey and Salmon and he did try a couple of bites so I'm hoping that he at least starts eating some canned.

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From observing my cats, some of them will refuse something that has made them sick in the past. So you're going along fine, they throw it up, then the next time they smell the food, it's like no way lady, that stuff made me barf last time!

I would probably give the raw a break with Tucker, as much as I know you hate to do that. I hope the Wellness is still going over well with him, at least. My cats love that stuff.

Originally Posted by kittymonsters

BEEF.....It what they Barf!

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Momma had trouble with beef at first, now I have the one ounce limit in place and she does fine. An ounce USED to be too much for her, but now it seems to be fine.

Originally Posted by kittymonsters

I have been freaking out over this too. I have been making homemade raw chicken for a month now. I had 6 out of seven eating it, then this last batch I went down to 4 !/2 eating. I was worried about the chicken contamination so I bought 6 pounds of free range grass fed beef. ( I live in cattle country so this is one thing that is readily available.) I got the liver and heart too. I was so excited. Made a huge batch.....I had two try just a small amount, not even a teaspoon and they barfed it back up

None of the others would even try it off my finger.

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First, 6 out of 7, that's great! I would suspect the gizzards made a difference in the second batch. I would try replicating the first batch.

I know what you mean about being excited! I'm glad I'm not the only one. I have heard that beef liver is very rich and can be a shock to their tummy. That's discouraging that it only took a teaspoon, though. Paisley barfs her whole meal if she gets a teaspoon of my home made chicken/beef blend, so I can relate. The others do fine with it. I mixed the meats because I thought that beef would be too rich by itself and chicken would be blah by itself. They haven't been real hyped about chicken, but I think I will try that and see if Paisley will hold it down.

Originally Posted by kittymonsters

I am having problems with this. If I feed raw and then let them have some canned....barfs again. I feel so bad for them. I am starting to get paranoid and wondering if everyone is developing blockages. I don't want to feed dry anymore and canned is too darn expensive for a crew of seven 14-16 pounders! I would have to feed each 2 cans a day, they don't want to eat that much.

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I should have qualified my statement about Momma topping off her meal with canned. It's gotta be the one canned food that "always" stays down for her. I can't just give her whatever the others are eating, it's gotta be the right one.

The others do okay if they get some of the raw and whichever canned that I opened for that meal. I had more barfing going on a couple months ago, so it may just take some time for adjustment.

Paisley is my little pig and if I let her have too much of the raw, she gets constipated. I think it's a combination of overeating, lazy bowels, and the extra 2# she's carrying around. Have you had any constipation issues with your crew?

Originally Posted by kittymonsters

Gizzards are just NASTY! I added them to my last batch because I though they would be good....supposedly gizzards and hearts. I am wondering if the two that decided raw was "not so good" this last batch was because of the really gnarly gizzards.

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I think you're right. The outside cats think that the organs / giblets are a tasty treat, but these spoiled housecats haven't recognized them as food yet.

Originally Posted by CatsAreBetter

I get the packages of hearts and gizzards. I also occasionally get livers, which are also cheap, and chop them down. When they boycott the liver, i sometimes grind it and mix it over everything so they can't pick out everything else. Mine, well the two on raw regularly, like hearts and gizzards and will sit there screaming at me while I'm cutting them. They are usually more gizzards than heart.

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Darn, I thought maybe you had a hookup for just hearts. I've only found them with the gizzards, and no kidding - it's like 4:1 gizzards to hearts.

Originally Posted by beandip

Paisley is my little pig and if I let her have too much of the raw, she gets constipated. I think it's a combination of overeating, lazy bowels, and the extra 2# she's carrying around. Have you had any constipation issues with your crew?



I think you're right. The outside cats think that the organs / giblets are a tasty treat, but these spoiled housecats haven't recognized them as food yet.

Darn, I thought maybe you had a hookup for just hearts. I've only found them with the gizzards, and no kidding - it's like 4:1 gizzards to hearts.

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Well, honestly, I think my Safeway butcher (who thinks I'm slightly crazy for feeding my cats raw food...) would pull hearts for me if he could. I'm assuming they package them at the Safeway, but I'm not sure. I haven't ever asked them because from what I've heard, it's supposed to be 5-10% organ meats, with half of that total being liver.. and as far as I can tell, the other half can be a mixture. So, I've never really bothered to go on the hunt for hearts only.

Oh, um.. I did notice one time, when my sister made the raw batch.. she got a little overzealous (okay, a lot overzealous) with the beef liver.. and they a.) absolutely refused to eat it and b.) got tummy aches from what they did eat... I think it's a completely different thing than chicken liver. I eventually had to mix what she'd made up into another batch of raw, so that the portion size was cut seriously back. Then they ate it with no problems. With my crew, it's very very rare that I can just toss some new kind of raw at them. They usually have to be introduced to it very slowly, and in a teeny quantity. If it's too noticeable, they'll snub the food. Everything they get has a chicken or sometimes turkey base.

Joyeux has a constipation problem for months after I got her (she actually had it before she came too, but we thought she was still adjusting to pottying on her own, and crying because of wanting mommy).. as it turns out, she was constipated. It took us a lot of time to figure out what was wrong. The vet put her on Laxatone while we were working through it, and she got dosed twice a day, by paw. I tried psyllium husks. They didn't work (and the cats boycotted the raw if I put too much in). I tried getting her to eat veggies, no go. Finally, by sheer luck, what I ended up getting for the household was some wheat grass. She started eating wheat grass and the problem cleared itself up. So, now I just keep wheat grass in the house and we have no more issues (other than her personality). But the constipation has cleared up... so maybe that would work for Paisley. catnutrition.org suggests trying psyllium husks for kitties that have been on kibble all their life.. but again, that didn't work for me. Dunno, you might have better luck with it.

heather

liver shouldnt be given at more than 4-6 oz per cat per week

They're getting about a pound of raw a day, between the two of them, and the liver equals 5% of that, which ends up being about 6 ozs, total mixed into the overall, split between the two. If I mix in a pound of livers, it's usually into three weeks worth of raw pre-prepared (is that a word??)..and then frozen.

Ever since my sister did that one batch, to which she just did it all on her own, she learned (or at least used as an excuse) that she shouldn't be doing it. Since she's a vegetarian, the task of preparing all their food falls to me. Heh, it took me a long time and a lot of freezer space to finally get all that mixed into a plain batches of chicken. Other than that batch she made, which Joyeux ate like two bites of, decided that she didn't like it, and promptly deposited it back on the floor... they get the proper amount of liver. I guess I should go see about getting some for them shortly.. beef liver, instead of chicken due to the melamine contamination of human grade chicken... This past week I've just been adding a bit more supplement than normal. No one had beef liver last week when I was out trying to find more raw for them.

I plan on shopping elsewhere next time but...I did get a lb of beef liver (packaged/frozen) from WM last week. $1.52. It has a brand name on it...Tender Year?

I'll probably get the next bit from the butcher who had the beef heart.

Originally Posted by beandip

Given the news, I guess it's not relevant, but I'm still curious - where are you getting chicken hearts? I ended up buying two packages of "gizzards and hearts*" *mostly gizzards to come up with 7oz of hearts for half a batch of food (actually I was 1/2oz short). Those mixed packs seemed cheap (a dollar something each) but when I did the math I felt like an idiot, because I essentially paid $6.50/lb for hearts.

I called around a little and the most promising answer was a 40# box of mixed hearts and gizzards...I didn't even ask the price as I don't want 30+ lbs of gizzards, which is probably what's in the mixed box. It's hard enough to use up what I had.

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You might try checking out your local Latino or Asian grocers. In our area they usually sell packages of chicken hearts for around $1.50.

Oh, um.. I did notice one time, when my sister made the raw batch.. she got a little overzealous (okay, a lot overzealous) with the beef liver.. and they a.) absolutely refused to eat it and b.) got tummy aches from what they did eat... I think it's a completely different thing than chicken liver. I eventually had to mix what she'd made up into another batch of raw, so that the portion size was cut seriously back. Then they ate it with no problems. With my crew, it's very very rare that I can just toss some new kind of raw at them. They usually have to be introduced to it very slowly, and in a teeny quantity. If it's too noticeable, they'll snub the food. Everything they get has a chicken or sometimes turkey base.

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I'm sooo squicked out by chicken liver. Maybe it's because I buy them from Giant Food and not from a premium source like, say, haretoday, but they're so squishy and bloody and some are particularly discoloured/jaundiced-looking (I throw those ones out - which means usually I don't end up with much.)

I got lucky because my kitty has a cast-iron stomach and is willing to pretty much eat anything, so it's been ridiculously easy to introduce him to raw. He's already making short work out of raw chicken chunks, organ meats and turkey necks (which I chop up into 1 inch pieces), although he's still getting used to the larger RMBs (like drumsticks).

Right now it's still about 50% dry (Chicken Soup), 25% homecooked, and 25% raw, though. I'm curious - would it be alright to transition him entirely to raw, or would he be missing out on certain nutrients not present in a frankenprey diet? And would an entirely raw diet put him at high risk for salmonella poisoning/parasites?

Originally Posted by nausicaa

You might try checking out your local Latino or Asian grocers. In our area they usually sell packages of chicken hearts for around $1.50.



I'm sooo squicked out by chicken liver. Maybe it's because I buy them from Giant Food and not from a premium source like, say, haretoday, but they're so squishy and bloody and some are particularly discoloured/jaundiced-looking (I throw those ones out - which means usually I don't end up with much.)

I got lucky because my kitty has a cast-iron stomach and is willing to pretty much eat anything, so it's been ridiculously easy to introduce him to raw. He's already making short work out of raw chicken chunks, organ meats and turkey necks (which I chop up into 1 inch pieces), although he's still getting used to the larger RMBs (like drumsticks).

Right now it's still about 50% dry (Chicken Soup), 25% homecooked, and 25% raw, though. I'm curious - would it be alright to transition him entirely to raw, or would he be missing out on certain nutrients not present in a frankenprey diet? And would an entirely raw diet put him at high risk for salmonella poisoning/parasites?

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With research and a vet who is nutrition minded or at least willing to help ... All raw can be done... I am a pm away if you have specific questions

Thank you! I will consult with a vet (although probably a holistic one and not the one I've got currently since he's pretty lax about nutrition - "A good food for your cat is any food your cat is willing to eat" and so on).