why are SO many vets against RAW?????

renovia

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So when I originally looked into BARF, i asked my first vet their opinions and my options if i were to change over to this diet. . .

well this first vet said they wouldn't recommend it due to bacteria etc etc..... this is also the same vet that gave stoli some 3/1 or 4/1 (can't remember) between his shoulder blades......

so today I decided to take a different approach with this different vet who works well with stoli and i really like her...

i asked her if she was familiar with holistic care and if she would be able to support stoli's care with natural remedies etc.....



she quickly said yes and that she used alternative meds on both herself and her cats - BUT in the same sentence she said she disagreed with BARF and would not recommend it to a pet with a compromised immune system due to bacteria . . .(again)

now - i wasn't about to begin switching stoli all around when i'm working on getting him top notch. (PS Stoli's blood work FINALLY came back NORMAL!~) but i am seriously considering adding raw to luxor's venison/pea for his allergies.........

am i just bonkers? is there merit in what they are saying? should i just shut up and feed stoli wellness and luxor NB?

Cautions against BARF
 

emmylou

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I think you should listen to what the vets are telling you. If your pet's immune system is compromised, you need to do everything you can to keep bacteria and germs away from your cat.
 

phenomsmom

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I think that is going to have to be a personal decision. They are a lot of cats who are doing extremely well with raw diets. Vets don't have the nutritional training we think they do. I would do some extensive research and do what you think is best for your kitties!
 

epona

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I had a row (well a sensible debate, not a stand up fight!) with the vet who saw Sonic yesterday because I mentioned that I was giving him wet food, lord knows how she'd respond if I mentioned a raw diet.


Her reasoning: dry food makes them drink more water so it's better for their kidneys, dry food cleans their teeth, and wet food goes mouldy and is a health risk (er yeah only if you leave it out for ages
)

Unfortunately I know perfectly well that vets get most of their nutritional 'knowledge' from dry food company reps, not from any veterinary training or journal. Basically if you feed a raw diet, you're not going to be buying sacks of dry from the vet any time soon.

I would think if a cat has immune problems it is something that should be considered carefully, if there is even a slight risk.
 

strange_wings

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Originally Posted by Epona

I had a row (well a sensible debate, not a stand up fight!) with the vet who saw Sonic yesterday because I mentioned that I was giving him wet food, lord knows how she'd respond if I mentioned a raw diet.


Her reasoning: dry food makes them drink more water so it's better for their kidneys, dry food cleans their teeth, and wet food goes mouldy and is a health risk (er yeah only if you leave it out for ages
)
I'm not sure I would have been able to debate that at all, rude as it sounds, I probably would just start laughing
while scooping up the cat and heading out of the examine room that is.

There's no way we can eliminate our cats exposure to bacteria, they poop in a box, lick their feet, and lick their butts. If that isn't direct exposure to salmonella and even e-coli, I don't know what is.
 

epona

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Originally Posted by strange_wings

I'm not sure I would have been able to debate that at all, rude as it sounds, I probably would just start laughing
while scooping up the cat and heading out of the examine room that is.

There's no way we can eliminate our cats exposure to bacteria, they poop in a box, lick their feet, and lick their butts. If that isn't direct exposure to salmonella and even e-coli, I don't know what is.
I have a few issues with our vets, but they're pretty much the same issues I'd have with most UK vets. I don't expect a vet to be a nutritionist. My own GP is not a human nutritionist either, if I want specific nutrition advice I'd go to a specialist. They are good with the cats, but they aren't feline specialists - unfortunately we don't have our own transport which limits the area in which we can see a vet. It's bad enough that my avian vet is a couple of miles away!
 

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While most vets aren't nutritionists, the opposite is also true.
My vet (30 years of experience) commented, when I asked her about raw feeding, that BARFers were working on false premises, because feeding raw wasn't the equivalent of a cat eating its freshly killed prey, because raw meat = carrion, and cats aren't carrion eaters. That does make some sense to me.

I came across yet another discussion about raw feeding on a German cat site this week, with more than one person stating that their vets had said that domestic cats fed raw diets were far more likely than those fed commercial foods to develop kidney problems. It's interesting that the article linked to above mentions that, too.

Why insist on feeding raw if your vets are so against it, and your cat already has health problems?
 

kitytize

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My vet is also against raw because of bacterial issues. And unfortunately I recently had to take my cat in because my cat had a bacterial infection from eating raw meat. So now I am in agreement with my vet and no longer will feed raw meat.
 

pekoe & nigel

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Okay, so this is obviously showing my lack of education in this matter
, but what are the benefits to feeding raw? It seems like the people who do it on this board are totally into it and think it's a really good thing, but I don't quite understand (or have never been told) what makes this such a great diet. So please, educate me!
 
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renovia

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Originally Posted by Renovia

now - i wasn't about to begin switching stoli all around when i'm working on getting him top notch. (PS Stoli's blood work FINALLY came back NORMAL!~) but i am seriously considering adding raw to luxor's venison/pea for his allergies.........
[/url]
so i'll quote myself - i WASN'T considering this for Stoli as he's the one with the compromised immune system.

and now - i'm considering the raw diet for luxor's allergies....... of course i don't want to compromise HIS immune system

so it seems the consensus is - correct me if i'm wrong;

don't do it if the cat is sick and i'll risk making luxor sick if i do it although it's my personal choice be sure to do extensive research.....
 

kai bengals

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I don't really get the whole carrion analogy. Carrion is the defined as the carcass of a dead animal. Raw feeders are certainly not grinding up road kill and feeding it to their cats.


Both my holistic vet and my traditional practice vet support raw feeding, but both of them do stress that it should only be done by people who practice safe meat handling procedures and who also have done their homework on providing a balanced diet.
 

beandip

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Originally Posted by Renovia

so i'll quote myself - i WASN'T considering this for Stoli as he's the one with the compromised immune system.

and now - i'm considering the raw diet for luxor's allergies....... of course i don't want to compromise HIS immune system

so it seems the consensus is - correct me if i'm wrong;

don't do it if the cat is sick and i'll risk making luxor sick if i do it although it's my personal choice be sure to do extensive research.....
After all of that extensive research I see no harm in introducing it (raw) in small quantities, and see how he does on it. I'm not an expert, but I'm interested in this too.
 
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renovia

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so basically Nial,

i have nature's variety patties in my freezer. it says to not touch the meat with your hands as you may contaminate the meat. i was going to use clean! tongs and place a medallion onto a clean: plate and cover with plastic wrap and place in the fridge until thawed (dinner) does this sound ok? or am i doing something wrong?

is raw ok when trying to eliminate possible allergies?
 
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renovia

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Originally Posted by beandip

After all of that extensive research I see no harm in introducing it (raw) in small quantities, and see how he does on it. I'm not an expert, but I'm interested in this too.
i just wanted to start with a little bit for a while to see how he does, but i also want to make sure that these medallions are ok to use and that i thaw them out alright.
 

jcat

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Originally Posted by Kai Bengals

I don't really get the whole carrion analogy. Carrion is the defined as the carcass of a dead animal. Raw feeders are certainly not grinding up road kill and feeding it to their cats.


Both my holistic vet and my traditional practice vet support raw feeding, but both of them do stress that it should only be done by people who practice safe meat handling procedures and who also have done their homework on providing a balanced diet.
I don't know where the line is drawn scientifically, but would assume that carrion would be any carcass where the body temperature has dropped more than a degree or two, or perhaps where rigor mortis has already started/been completed? Having had both, I think dogs and cats would distinguish between "fresh" and "carrion" differently, too.
"A balanced diet" is probably the key expression. It's difficult enough figuring out how much, or what, or even if, to supplement when feeding a mixture of commercial and cooked foods. So if vets see malnutrition or organ failure in cats given raw, it might very well be for lack of accurate guidelines.
Wouldn't the degree of "domestication" also play a role? Your standard "alley cat" might have different nutritional requirements from an F1 or F2, due to adaptation?
 

sharky

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I do agree with Nial as i have two vets that assist me in the raw feeding but at the same time also help with homecooked and canned/dry feeding.... At my house at least the rotation diet works.... I have a CRF girl and she does best on all raw but that doesnt mean all cats would do well ... My semi feral girl eats 90% dry kitten food and will kill and eat only "fresh " meat ....
 

catsarebetter

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I've found two sites that are, at least to my point of view, very informative. They are www.catnutrition.org which tells how to feed a raw ground up diet, and the other one is http://www.rawfedcats.org/ (still under construction but a good site). There is also information on www.rawfed.com (mostly about dogs, but some about cats under myths and such).

If you read those sites, you'll know about as much as I do, hehe. I think it makes more logical sense to feed a raw diet, and I'm leaning, personally, toward the fresh/frozen on the bone with the organ meats.. and the benefit is.. less work for me. Anyway, the two I have on it love it. The two I'm slowly switching, are starting to get into the chunks too.. and they're all really intense at feeding time (with raw), which I think says a lot about what their instincts are.

This is something I just noticed with the chunks, as opposed to ground (which is what I've been doing..)

Anyway, good luck!
 

kai bengals

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Originally Posted by Renovia

so basically Nial,

i have nature's variety patties in my freezer. it says to not touch the meat with your hands as you may contaminate the meat. i was going to use clean! tongs and place a medallion onto a clean: plate and cover with plastic wrap and place in the fridge until thawed (dinner) does this sound ok? or am i doing something wrong?

is raw ok when trying to eliminate possible allergies?
That method of handling sounds rational to me.

In the case of my cats, I place the thawed raw meat onto paper plates for the cats to consume. Then those plates are thrown away. Any un-eaten raw meat is also thrown away if it sits out longer than 15 mins. I normally don't have that problem, they usually polish it off quickly.

Luxor may decide he doesn't want to eat cold food, so you may have to warm the meat a little. Placing the medallion in a glad bag, submersed in a pot of warm water will warm the meat without cooking it. Avoid nuking it, as the microwave heats unevenly and you may cook a bone fragment, causing it to become brittle.

As to the possible food allergy, I think raw is a viable method to use to narrow down exactly what he might be allergic to. The hard part is making sure the raw animal meat you choose is not what he is actually allergic to. Chicken protein seems to be a more common allergen, so you may want to stay away from raw chicken. My suggestion, would be to try rabbit, beef or venison. Maybe even duck, but I'm not sure about the possible similarities to chicken, since both are birds.

I'd also like to mention that when you buy pre-made raw diets for your cats, you're only in control once you have the product at your home. All your due diligence can be for nothing, if your supplier isn't doing their part to make sure safe meat handling precautions were adhered to. The companies that process and package the raw diet, freeze it for shipment to suppliers. It needs to remain frozen until it's served up to the kitties.
Finding a reputable source for your raw diet is important.
 
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renovia

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thank you so much, the last two posts have been quite informative without overly passionate.

i am passionate about my cats and WILL NOT feed stoli raw food for a long time, perhaps this summer if even then. I'm glad I bought a small bag of raw incase the chicken is what luxor is allergic to. Right now i'm thinking that gluten/grains are what have been bothering luxor as the venison and pea is working fairly well. so i'll try the chicken.

i'm crossing my fingers that nature's variety is a reputable company that cares in the quality of the output of the product. paper plates sound good and i didn't have any on hand or i may have used one....will see how this goes tonight and will get some paper plates.
 
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