why are SO many vets against RAW?????

I would think twice since Stoli already has immune system issues. He just may not be the best candidate for a raw diet.

like i said before - stoli is not going to be getting raw for a LONG time and only if he's been completely healthy for a LONG time and not diagnosed with something.......


so - update: luxor just had a medium smidge of raw with his venison and pea and he LOVED it....it even had a TINY piece of bone and at first i didn't think he was going to eat it but he did!!!!!!!!!!! - so now we'll watch him for a while and see how he does.....

I feed a raw diet to all 12 of my cats i think its a good idea if your careful . I've seen 5 vets since i got my cats (2 retired, then the other 2 i just didn't like). Well any ways 3 out of 5 of them said raw diet feeding would be fine if your careful and do not over do things or anything and i've never had a problem and i've been feeding it to my kittens and there doing great on it.

Originally Posted by Renovia

update: luxor just had a medium smidge of raw with his venison and pea and he LOVED it....it even had a TINY piece of bone and at first i didn't think he was going to eat it but he did!!!!!!!!!!! - so now we'll watch him for a while and see how he does.....

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Congrats! That's the first major hurdle, getting them to even try it. The fact that he loved it is even more encouraging.

I've been feeding raw for 3 years along with selective commercial foods, and I've not had any problems. I've been very pleased with the results.

No feeding regimine is without it's flaws or setbacks, so if you run into a roadblock or other trouble, feel free to PM me. I've tried just about every type of raw food.

And, to keep Stoli feeling like he's part of the equation, you could cook some of the raw you're giving to Luxor, provided that it's completely boneless and he should do just fine on it as a treat.

The companies that process and package the raw diet, freeze it for shipment to suppliers. It needs to remain frozen until it's served up to the kitties.
Finding a reputable source for your raw diet is important.

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Just thought i would suggest you check at your local butchers. Alot of butchers start with the whole animal themselves, so you can check out thier handling process. Many butchers will often also have 'scraps' which are just mean which didn't look as good to display, as well as some organs, which is fairly cheap to buy.
This is how i get my meat for my dogs. I just pop down first thing in the morning and pick it up. Means that the time between when it was first prosessed to when my dogs get it to be only a matter of minutes.

Hehe, I just wanted to warn you.. once he starts eating raw or gets more of a taste of it.. you may not have a choice *but* to feed him raw cause.. um.. the kitten (Joyeux) that came here on a raw and the Bengal (Khan) who (who kisses the ground she walks on... we think because he started getting raw when she came..) absolutely will not eat anything else with the exception of a mouthful of wet, occasionally.. when the mood strikes them.

My vet doesn't particularly like the idea, but, he also is much more amenable to it now that he knows what all we're doing. He's still got concerns about Taurine, though.. his opinion and I don't know what the basis behind it is as he's the only one I've ever heard it from, is that Taurine needs to be fed in exactly the right dosage.. not too little (which I've heard often) and not too much (which I'd never heard). That is one of the reasons I would like to get all the nutrition in the meat, if possible.

We've been feeding raw since about the end of December (when the little marbled menace came home). It's sort of a learn-as-you-go process..but I think the biggest thing is to make absolute sure that everything you use or prepare on, including the sinks, get sanitized. I found something at the grocery stores here called Lysol Food Surface Sanitizer. I use it to sanitize, and let it sit, before and after I prepare, washing it after sanitizing before I put their food on it because it worries me to have them in contact with the chemicals, even though the product says it's okay. We also use disposable dishes, plastic silverware to mix or pull it out of the baggies, and throw it all away no longer than an hour after we put it out regardless of whether there's food left or not. Nial is a little less lenient on the time frame than I am, but overall I agree with what he's posted.

Everyone seems to have a different method. The breeder Joyeux came from puts it down, and leaves it down for several hours, and doesn't put in the organ meats but does add supplement. She's had her cats on it for years, and never a problem..and her cats are gorgeous..beautiful coats, good muscle, and very few health problems (usually an eye infection or a sneeze contracted at a show).

I know this is a long post, but I did want to mention that all of the raw sites I've read, including the ones I posted earlier, say that a lot of health problems are cleared up when they start eating raw because it's the diet they're intended to eat. You may find that to be the case. I'm not sure if that in particular was mentioned on the sites or not. There is a link to the vet on catnutrition, I believe, and you may find an email address to email that particular vet. She'd probably be a good person to ask if you can access her. If not, you may also consider the yahoo group that is suggested on the other site. I need to get on that list.

Originally Posted by Renovia

i just wanted to start with a little bit for a while to see how he does, but i also want to make sure that these medallions are ok to use and that i thaw them out alright.

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I understand, your plan sounds good. That's great that he liked it! That would have been a bummer if he refused it. I tried the medallions out on my clan, and I had 6 out of 8 approve. I was amazed. Princess Pumpkin Pickypants and her big brother Leopold gave me a funny look, but all other paws were up.

well, luxor was fantastic last night. he tried about a teaspoon of raw mixed in with his NB. he ate it up with zeal!!! but because he wasn't going to finish the patty that night we put it down the disposal and cleaned the disposal with vinegar and lemon and water.

we waited to see how his litterbox looked before we gave him any this morning. it looked completely normal if not a little firmer than normal! so we gave him a half a medallion that we took out to be defrosted last night about 9.30pm. will the other half medallion be ok until 5pm tonight in the fridge? he LOVES the raw.

Originally Posted by Renovia

well, luxor was fantastic last night. he tried about a teaspoon of raw mixed in with his NB. he ate it up with zeal!!! but because he wasn't going to finish the patty that night we put it down the disposal and cleaned the disposal with vinegar and lemon and water.

we waited to see how his litterbox looked before we gave him any this morning. it looked completely normal if not a little firmer than normal! so we gave him a half a medallion that we took out to be defrosted last night about 9.30pm. will the other half medallion be ok until 5pm tonight in the fridge? he LOVES the raw.

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Wonderful! You can leave thawed meat in the fridge for about 3 days without concern. Fridge temp should be around 38 degrees.

great. thanks for the info - luxor has had a whole medallion today mixed in with his food. he loves it and his poop looked really good today - still a little smelly though.

Originally Posted by Renovia

great. thanks for the info - luxor has had a whole medallion today mixed in with his food. he loves it and his poop looked really good today - still a little smelly though.

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the smell is excess bacteria being sent off ... if you get to a totally raw diet there is no smell

I love it when vets push their Science Diet and Purina on you, saying its the BEST. I'm willing to be that they had about a paragraph of nutrition information in college. Raw, IMO, is definitely best, although I do not have the time nor the education to do it, yet. So mine all get a high quality wet and dry.

Her reasoning: dry food makes them drink more water so it's better for their kidneys, dry food cleans their teeth, and wet food goes mouldy and is a health risk (er yeah only if you leave it out for ages )

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Dry food does not make them drink more water. They will not drink water if they are so inclined, which is why wet is so important. It makes sure that they are getting enough water, so they don't get UTI's. Also, think about it, if we ate a back of Doritos, would our teeth be cleaner than if we ate a bowl of pudding? Not at all. Crunchy food gets stuck in their teeth and rots, while wet, for the most part, gets washed away. And about the last comment...well duh, if you leave food out it will go bad. Vets are great, but somethings they say just amaze me.

Originally Posted by fosterkitty

I love it when vets push their Science Diet and Purina on you, saying its the BEST. I'm willing to be that they had about a paragraph of nutrition information in college. Raw, IMO, is definitely best, although I do not have the time nor the education to do it, yet. So mine all get a high quality wet and dry.



Dry food does not make them drink more water. They will not drink water if they are so inclined, which is why wet is so important. It makes sure that they are getting enough water, so they don't get UTI's. Also, think about it, if we ate a back of Doritos, would our teeth be cleaner than if we ate a bowl of pudding? Not at all. Crunchy food gets stuck in their teeth and rots, while wet, for the most part, gets washed away. And about the last comment...well duh, if you leave food out it will go bad. Vets are great, but somethings they say just amaze me.

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Welcome to TCS ... I have a rare vet that recommends raw but shell help find good dry if needed

well i'm just hoping for the best here - as long as luxor isn't allergic to chicken (i'm still trying to rule out a bunch here) i think this will be good for him. he's always hungry but he seems to be way more pudgy than stoli. his poop is always soft - more often than not it's runny. he itches alot around his neck and head - which is why we are trying different foods..we've also eliminated his petmate watering bowl too..... he's been to the vet and has been given a clean bill of health - three times. . .he's even had a fecal exam.......with out putting him through a battery of tests and stress i think/hope this is a good route to go down.

Welcome to TCS ... I have a rare vet that recommends raw but shell help find good dry if needed

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Thank! I love it here so far. I absolutely adore my vet, but sometimes I just don't think she knows a lot about nutrition. But she takes excellent care of my crew, so I don't hold it against her

Hi there. The first time I whipped up a batch of raw chicken with the feline instincts formula and the liver powder both cats wouldn't touch it. Well this time I added tuna water from a tuna can to the mix and Rosie ate it with gusto. Spotty would not touch it.

A representative of Feline Instincts advised me to use tuna water but she also told me that eventually I will have to wean them off the tuna juice.

Raw, IMO, is definitely best, although I do not have the time nor the education to do it, yet. So mine all get a high quality wet and dry.

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I used to say that too and then I found out that there are products you can buy to mix with raw meat and raw liver so you don't have to have a big education to do it. You just need a recipe. Follow the recipe as directed and you won't make a mistake.

www.felineinstincts.com or www.felinefuture.com both make this possible. My Natural Cat supplement from feline instincts and the supplement from Feline Future both have an adequate calcium source so you can use boneless meat and if you don't have a meat grinder a food processor will work just fine. Eventually, when the cat will accept it, you'll want to feed chunks because raw meat chunks are better for the teeth.

Look how easy this is:
1/2 cup My Natural Cat supplement(from feline instincts)
1 and 1/2 cups cold filtered water
2 salmon oil capsules(provided by the company)
2 lbs raw meat
1/2 cup raw liver

Add filtered water to the bowl. Add My Natural Cat supplement and stir. Add pureed liver by using a food processor, pierce the salmon caps and squeeze into mixture, stir. Add small chunks of skinless, boneless chicken or beef meat, either chopped in small chunks or ground in a food processor. Stir again. When using chicken use a combination of dark meat and white meat. Do not use totally lean meat. Cats need at least 10-15% fat from the meat.

Weigh or measure in cup daily meals in freezer baggies, ice cube trays or small plastic containers and freeze. Thaw out daily meals in the fridge. You can warm them by floating the bag in hot tap water or you can add some boiling water to the food. Cats like their food warmed up a bit. You could probably microwave the food for a few seconds. Just be careful not to cook the meat.

You see, you don't have to be a rocket scientist. This is just as easy as preparing food for your children or making cookies from a recipe book. It's just time consuming and messy(like making cookies) but you can pick a Saturday or Sunday to prepare and then freeze. Your biggest challenge is convincing a cat who has eaten nothing but processed food his whole life to eat the food. There's the hard part. But you can try tuna water(but be sure to wean them off the tuna water later) or mixing it with your cat's current wet food, gradually increasing and decreasing the old until the new diet is accepted.

Originally Posted by moggiegirl

I used to say that too and then I found out that there are products you can buy to mix with raw meat and raw liver so you don't have to have a big education to do it. You just need a recipe. Follow the recipe as directed and you won't make a mistake.

www.felineinstincts.com or www.felinefuture.com both make this possible. My Natural Cat supplement from feline instincts and the supplement from Feline Future both have an adequate calcium source so you can use boneless meat and if you don't have a meat grinder a food processor will work just fine. Eventually, when the cat will accept it, you'll want to feed chunks because raw meat chunks are better for the teeth.

Look how easy this is:
1/2 cup My Natural Cat supplement(from feline instincts)
1 and 1/2 cups cold filtered water
2 salmon oil capsules(provided by the company)
2 lbs raw meat
1/2 cup raw liver

Add filtered water to the bowl. Add My Natural Cat supplement and stir. Add pureed liver by using a food processor, pierce the salmon caps and squeeze into mixture, stir. Add small chunks of skinless, boneless chicken or beef meat, either chopped in small chunks or ground in a food processor. Stir again. When using chicken use a combination of dark meat and white meat. Do not use totally lean meat. Cats need at least 10-15% fat from the meat.

Weigh or measure in cup daily meals in freezer baggies, ice cube trays or small plastic containers and freeze. Thaw out daily meals in the fridge. You can warm them by floating the bag in hot tap water or you can add some boiling water to the food. Cats like their food warmed up a bit. You could probably microwave the food for a few seconds. Just be careful not to cook the meat.

You see, you don't have to be a rocket scientist. This is just as easy as preparing food for your children or making cookies from a recipe book. It's just time consuming and messy(like making cookies) but you can pick a Saturday or Sunday to prepare and then freeze. Your biggest challenge is convincing a cat who has eaten nothing but processed food his whole life to eat the food. There's the hard part. But you can try tuna water(but be sure to wean them off the tuna water later) or mixing it with your cat's current wet food, gradually increasing and decreasing the old until the new diet is accepted.

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Very well written ... SOME wont take to a raw diet but I do encourage those trying it to give it a good shot

do you sterilize your processor before and after? that instincts formula and future stuff sounds pretty cool. i could get organic venison for luxor....

Personally, I wash, dry and then steralize everything before I start... counter, sink, food processor, cutting board, knife, any utensils I'm going to use.. let the sanatizer sit for several minutes, then I come back in and rinse everything out so the sanitizer isn't getting mixed into the food.

Then, I make everything and after I'm done, wash everything after it's been used, put it all in the dishwasher after I wash it by hand, run it through and while all the bits and pieces that can go in the dishwasher are in there, I wash/clean and then sanitize the sink and counters and bases of everything again and let it dry naturally with the sanitizer on it. When the pieces come out, I spray the sanitizer on all of it and let it dry that way (making sure that I wash and sanitize again before I start making the raw process again for next time, so starting at the beginning again).

Now, that's me, and I'm just as diligent as I can be about getting everything as sanitary as possible. I'm sure I'm overly diligent. You're probably safe to do it once before you start and once afterwards. I do tend to wash the pieces if I'm switching from chicken to beef, or vice versa..which honestly I don't know if it that makes a difference or not.