Bengals/Ocicats

Looking at Nial's cats, and comparing them to the oci patterns, I can see why people DO confuse the 2 breeds. The spotted ones are very similar and you can see the influance of the ocicat in the bengal breed. I think if you remember that the bengals are random spotting rather then the more bullseye look to the spotting on the oci's you can see the difference.

Also bengals do not come in the same colors as the ocicats. Tawny and silver would be some of the only colors in common.

Nial - can you add some insite?

I'll have to go look for pics of each now. I always wondered what the difference was (besides the name) because I have a very hard time telling the difference.

Something funny happened to me, when I first got Simba. You know how the breeder requires you to take your new kitten to the Vet to get a health check up within a couple of days of purchase? Well, I took Simba in for his health check up, and one of the helpers, not sure what you call those people, told me he liked my Egyption Mau. I told the guy he was a Bengal, not a Mau, and the guy wasn't even familiar with the Bengal breed.

Ok, even looking as pics I still can't tell the difference.

Hope, Simba does have a long face kind of like a Mau.

This is a picture of Loki... one of Nial and Teri's boys. His spots are very pronounced with several colors making up the spots from dark brown to light brown. Nial I hope it's ok.



This picture is of an ocicat. Their spots are small and don't seem to have the different colors creating the spots.
http://www.fanciers.com/breed-faqs/ocicat-faq.html

This is how I was able to tell the difference. So I hope it's right.

Here are some pics of my bengals, with color descriptions, etc.


This is Loki, a 1.7 year old male, brown rosetted (spotted) tabby. His background color is tawny/tan, brownish/red rosetttes with a black outline.


This is Jack, a 1 year old male, silver, black spotted tabby. His background color is silver with pitch black mostly solid spots. (Ocicats have solid spots, not rosettes)


This is Rodeo, a 1 year old male, seal mink spotted tabby. His background color is Ivory with mauve/brown rosettes/spots.


This is Kaehkili, a 2 year old male, brown spotted tabby. His background color is rufous with black spots.


This is Odin, a 1 year old male, brown rosetted (spotted) tabby. His background color is tawny/tan with paw print rosettes. The rosettes are brown/red with black outline.


This is Penny, a 1.5 year old female, tri-color marble tabby. Her background color is light golden tan, with black and mahogany/brown marbling.


This is Miss Spotty Paws, a 7 month old female, silver, black rosetted (spotted) tabby. Her background color is silver with black/gray rosettes and black spots.

There are more varieties that I don't have pictures for. As you can see, the bengal breed is indeed varied, in color combos, spot color and rosetting.
A lot of the early generation bengals resemble Ocicat spot patterns, but most bengal breeders are striving for rosetted cats so that's where the departure is for the most part.
There are lots of other subtle differences in body confirmation, head type and so forth that distinguish the breeds from each other, but the main thing most people see is the coat pattern.

I'm happy to elaborate as needed!

Eva,

Yes, that's correct, although Loki is IMO what all bengal cats should look like, there are lots of bengals out there that exhibit the smaller Ocicat type spots. In my experience most of these have been EG bengals of the F1 trough F3 generation.
That in itself is amusing because Ocicats have no wild blood and F1 thru F3 EG bengals have much more wild blood than their later generation rosetted brothers and sisters.

Originally Posted by snosrap5

This is a picture of Loki... one of Nial and Teri's boys. His spots are very pronounced with several colors making up the spots from dark brown to light brown. Nial I hope it's ok.

This picture is of an ocicat. Their spots are small and don't seem to have the different colors creating the spots.
http://www.fanciers.com/breed-faqs/ocicat-faq.html

This is how I was able to tell the difference. So I hope it's right.

Click to expand...

What an educational thread. I think most of the pics I found on-line are like Nial described... bengals w/ smaller less distinct spots.

Nial, as usual your cats look stunning but I literally gasped when I saw that pitcure of Loki. Of course, I know almost nothing of breeds or breed standards so you lost me at EG. It is nice to know though that there are plenty of knowledgeable people here that I can turn to should I ever decide to buy a pure breed cat.

Here's Charlie.

http://www.labcorner.com/Charlie65.jpg

http://www.labcorner.com/Charlie48.jpg

Other oci's

http://www.apophis.com/ocicats/eagle2.jpg

http://www.apophis.com/ocicats/woodykit.jpg

Pictures of ocicats in other colors:

http://www.ocicatinfo.com/Ocicolors.htm

Nial, were ocicats used in the founding of the bengal breed? I thought they developed at around the same time. I know maus were used, but I was unaware that any ocicats were being used to influence the bengal breed.

Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt

Nial, were ocicats used in the founding of the bengal breed? I thought they developed at around the same time. I know maus were used, but I was unaware that any ocicats were being used to influence the bengal breed.

Click to expand...

Some bengal breeders say a few Ocicats were used, but I have always thought that it was mostly abby's and mau's. I can say, I have never seen a bengal pedigree with an Ocicat in it's history.

I don't think we'll know for sure unless someone can provide a pedigree. If you do a little surfing of bengal breeder sites, you'll see some of them listing the Ocicat as one of the domestic breeds used.

My foundation "lookbook" doesn't show any pictures of Ocicats used, but lists them as one of the breeds that may have been untilized, along with the bombay, burmese and maine coon.

Maine Coons???

Well you do get the classic/marble pattern in there - I do know the oci's also have the classic tabby pattern show up (but can't be shown - only as pets). So if the oci was not used, where did the marble pattern come from?

Didn't the oci's classic tabby pattern come from the siamese?

Nope - it was the siamese-aby cross that produced the spots They now think that the siamese are actually carrying the spotted tabby in their genes as many in the 60's kinda showed ghost spotting on the coats at one time or another.

The classic was introduced when the silver classic tabby ASH was added to get the silver gene. So you really wind up with the (1) spotted oci (2) classic oci (3) ticked aby oci and (4) the ghost oci which are the pointed.

Oh. The classic tabby ASH was used in the bengal breed too. Thats probably where it came from.

Duke has a ghost classic tabby pattern. Thats why I thought that might be the case. I was informed on this site that all siamese are tabbys and their coloration just covers the tabby pattern.

Hmm, well, I'm not sure.. and I'm still fairly new to the breed, but I'm learning more now that I have two Bengals in the house. Also learning some because of my Mau. My original education was that the Mau and the ALC were crossed (that from the Mau breeder), to get the Bengal, but one of the two breeders that I have gotten the Bengals from said that my previous Bengal had Siamese somewhere in her background. And she definitely demonstrated some of the traits. She was a later generation Bengal, with a serious coat flaw (and actually ended up looking very much like a Siamese).

My uneducated guess is that somewhere, way back when they started the crosses, they were looking for the best cross?

To look at my Mau, and then our rosetted Bengal.. I can clearly see the difference in color and patter. My Mau is a bronze, though, and often my guests have a hard time distinguishing them when they first meet them. I've often thought that had a lot to do with Khan ghosting in and out of the room, though. He's F3, and he's just simply not very social with strangers.. so it's very easy to assume that he's the same cat that you just saw.. with "spots", and not realize that there are two different "spotted" kitties here.

Anyway, I luv em!

Just to be clear, the first ALC domestic crosses were from a couple of cats from India. Loosely referred to as Indian Mau's. They were subsequently registered as E. Mau's with CFA but I have seen their pictures and they don't look like good examples of Mau's. More like a sorrel DSH mackrel tabby with very broken up striping.

Burmese were used in early breedings, but I don't think anyone used siamese. Of course I could be wrong, we're talking about 20 to 30 years ago.

Heck, there is an idiot breeder up north that I sold a titled stud to, who is breeding him to her E. Mau's.

I'm still working on what to do about her!

Nial, what's in your breeding contract that might specify what cats he/she can be bred to?