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Born mean/sick or made that way?

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 
Do you think that people that are murderers, child/spouse abusers, animal abusers, etc are born mean or just something must have happened in thier upbringing to make them that way?
post #2 of 22
I think some learn it.

The others, especially the really cruel ones, are mentally ill.
post #3 of 22
I think most people are mean/sick because of both reasons.

Isn't natural for say, cats, to fight for the dominancy? I think humans do it as well. We just call it bullying or demeaning or some other word that doesn't make us sound like animals.

People that are sick or mean really are just trying to assert themselves. Someone that murders another person does so to assert that he is more powerful than that person.

Same idea with any sicko rapists to bullies.

We can discipline yes, but once that discipline is taken away then its the persons choice of whether or not they want to continue society's right or go back to society's wrong.
post #4 of 22
I think people are born with their basic personality, then this gets shaped through life.
So yes, some people are born mean and their tendencies are are either quelled through good parenting/life experiences or allowed to develop into abusive behaviour.
post #5 of 22
Oh boy.. the age old "nature vs. nurture" question.
It's a tough one, but I think it's a little bit of both.
post #6 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirtle View Post
Oh boy.. the age old "nature vs. nurture" question.
It's a tough one, but I think it's a little bit of both.
post #7 of 22
I think some people really are "born good" and some people are "born bad" (and there are some others who are in between). I have a real life example. My direct supervisor at work is a woman who grew up in a trailer park with an alcoholic, abusive father who used to beat the living poo out of her (he even broke her face once) and a mother who was distant and a little bit crazy. This woman has had nothing but trouble her whole life. She suffers from a myriad of painful diseases as well. This woman, however, is one of the kindest, most caring people I have ever met. She doesn't have much, but she'd give you everything if you needed it. This woman has grown up and lived through horrible circumstances, yet she is a normal, sane human being that would never hurt a fly.

Those people who are "born bad" seem to be lacking something that the rest of us have, some inner moral sense or conscience or something like that. And others seem to be made of evil. My supervisor's grandparents were wonderful people (as I've been told) but their son grew up into nasty, nasty man.

Just my .
post #8 of 22
can be both. But i think some people are just born sick,
I used to read alot of real life killer stuff. Most of them came fron very messed up lives.
post #9 of 22
I think genetics do play a factor but i also believe environment and what a child is tought as well as how they are disciplined also plays a huge factor in things of that nature.
post #10 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirtle View Post
It's a tough one, but I think it's a little bit of both.
I'm of the same opinion, i think anyones capable of abuse etc.., it just depends how well you can control your temper.
post #11 of 22
There was a study in the Netherlands and a follow up one in New Zealand where they found that a gene which is manipulated by a Monamine-oxidase-A promotor. A combination of abuse and a certain version of this gene resulted in a violent individual. Abuse alone or the promotor alone didn't cause the violence.

I think it is a combination of genetics and environment. Sometimes the genetics is more of a factor (people unable to feel empathy) and in other cases the environment (not learning how to contain anger, how to treat other people).

What is interesting to see what happens when we have more studies into the genetics and society begins to question whether we have free will.
post #12 of 22
I think it is a combination of both reasons.
post #13 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by katachtig View Post
There was a study in the Netherlands and a follow up one in New Zealand where they found that a gene which is manipulated by a Monamine-oxidase-A promotor. A combination of abuse and a certain version of this gene resulted in a violent individual. Abuse alone or the promotor alone didn't cause the violence.

I think it is a combination of genetics and environment. Sometimes the genetics is more of a factor (people unable to feel empathy) and in other cases the environment (not learning how to contain anger, how to treat other people)....
I heard about and have been very interested in this study, and from my experience, it rings very true. (To argue a minute point, though, I believe that lack of empathy can also be from environment, or a combination. But that's a very minor point in an excellent post.)
post #14 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by squirtle View Post
Oh boy.. the age old "nature vs. nurture" question.
It's a tough one, but I think it's a little bit of both.
I have to agree, a bit of both for sure.
post #15 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryEyedTiGeR View Post
I think genetics do play a factor but i also believe environment and what a child is tought as well as how they are disciplined also plays a huge factor in things of that nature.
I agree
they have done studies on violent and mentally ill criminals, found frontal lobe damage on many criminals due to abuse or childhood damage, also found malnurishment was a factor esp in childhood. what doesnt go into the body doesnt reach the brain...ya know the whole food=fuel thingy. Gentetics predisposes you to certain behavior traits then environment can nurture those predispostions. like what had been said about alcholic parents and how their children are likely to take up alcoholism.

But there are plenty of great familys who raise rotten evil adults....sometimes its just a bad seed.
post #16 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarryEyedTiGeR View Post
I think genetics do play a factor but i also believe environment and what a child is tought as well as how they are disciplined also plays a huge factor in things of that nature.
I couldnt agree with that more, that is actually what I was going to say
post #17 of 22
Nature or nuture, the classic question. I guess it's a case by case basis. Some people it's learned, others it's just who they are.
post #18 of 22
For many I think that it is mental illness compounded by doctors not detecting the symptoms correctly or only willing to prescribe something that will mask the problem instead of getting to the root of the problem. Add a bad childhood on that and you've got a psycho.

Then again my husband fits that criteria and he hasn't killed anyone.. Though he admits he might have if he wasn't with me. He wouldn't have sought medical help for his mood swings if it wasn't for his family.
post #19 of 22
OH a hard question! I can see how society, upbringing and such would mold you into a bad person. However, there are some that I think ARE born with evil intentions. But how would we ever know if they were born or MADE.
Speaking of that... criminal minds is coming on.
post #20 of 22
they dont do it to show dominance, they do it because they get pleasure out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
I think most people are mean/sick because of both reasons.

Isn't natural for say, cats, to fight for the dominancy? I think humans do it as well. We just call it bullying or demeaning or some other word that doesn't make us sound like animals.

People that are sick or mean really are just trying to assert themselves. Someone that murders another person does so to assert that he is more powerful than that person.

Same idea with any sicko rapists to bullies.

We can discipline yes, but once that discipline is taken away then its the persons choice of whether or not they want to continue society's right or go back to society's wrong.
post #21 of 22
They get pleasure from the feeling of POWER and DOMINANCE over their victim that it gives them! Go to crimelibrary.com and you'll see this is a factor in a lot of cases!
post #22 of 22
I agree with most that it is a combination.

There are brain studies out there that show that the frontal lobe, as Erica said, does not function in the same way in those with violent tendencies as a "normal" person. The frontal lobe controls anger and impulse. This is one of the main arguments for "nature".

At the same time, if you look at most killers or rapists, you'll find a history of abuse in the family. It might be physical, mental, sexual abuse or a combination of any of these. But most serial killers don't come from good homes. So there's the "nurture" argument.

However, there are people with a frontal lobe that functions the same as a serial killers, and yet they don't all kill. And there are a lot of people from bad homes that go on to be well-adjusted, good people. So I think there is a combination of both that come together in just the "right" (or wrong) way that make violent criminals.
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