How long does it take?

thelorax · Feb 13, 2007

Originally Posted by thelorax

This photo is high art! Thanks lorax

From what I know cats can develop really strong pair bonds with other cats, people, even other animals, but sometiems they can see any other being as competition for food, affection, etc. This can be merely an instictive measure,but sometimes I think it is selective behavior.

My miss mina has had my previous elderly cats tro socialize with, but wasn't pleased at all to be fed with them. She preferred to take her meals when I ate, and to theis day likes me to hang out with her when she eats. Group mentality at leat, but a good example of pairbonding, as well. Lorax

x-ta-z · Feb 14, 2007

I really have no idea how to go about anymore. Somehow In my apartment I cannot guarantee them not 'bumping' into each other once a day. And everytime the hisses from Singa.

The rest of the time she is just sulking in a corner. I'm really not sure what bothers her most.
She only hisses at her when she SEES her. But it's more that she is scared than her having issues with her territory or anything. She hisses and backs away and in the end runs to a room in which the kitten has never been (the study). There she will lie on the office chair and stare into space or sleep, looking completely depressed. Even after we locked away the kitten she will be in this mood most of the time. Running around the house with not the slightest sign of her previous energetic self.
So it seems that she is also turned off by the smell as well. She will usually stay away the area to the the guest bathroom (including my bedroom which is right at the end of the small corridor where teh kitten bathroom is). If she ever goes there she will sniff a bit and roam about in her depressed way. When she smells the kitten on me she will try to keep away as if disgusted - but usually she doesn't hiss.

So I tried the following. Letting kitten (I think I'll call her

Soleil

btw) run around the house while Singa sleeps in the study with closed door. Singa is not impressed.
I try going to Signa for a big cuddle directly after the playtime with Soleil (with her smell and all). She doesn't really want to cuddle with me having kitten smell all over the body.
I sprayed Feliway around the bathroom door area (they don't sell the electrical thingy in Singapore I think). Singa hates feliway I think. She looked disgusted at least.
I tried feeding Singa in close to the bathroom door with her favorite food, so she will associate yummy food with kitten smell

, but she won't even touch the food there.

I bought the vanilla thingy today, but I have the bad feeling that that also will fail. Shall I permanently put it on both? Or just when I want them to meet? I really need dummy-proof instructions on this please!

I really have no more clue what to do

- I have the feeling Signa just doesn't like Soleil at even if she ever gets used to her, she will tolerate her but not more....

I really need some motivation....

snosrap5 · Feb 14, 2007

Originally Posted by x-ta-Z

I really have no idea how to go about anymore. Somehow In my apartment I cannot guarantee them not 'bumping' into each other once a day. And everytime the hisses from Singa.

The rest of the time she is just sulking in a corner. I'm really not sure what bothers her most.
She only hisses at her when she SEES her. But it's more that she is scared than her having issues with her territory or anything. She hisses and backs away and in the end runs to a room in which the kitten has never been (the study). There she will lie on the office chair and stare into space or sleep, looking completely depressed. Even after we locked away the kitten she will be in this mood most of the time. Running around the house with not the slightest sign of her previous energetic self.
So it seems that she is also turned off by the smell as well. She will usually stay away the area to the the guest bathroom (including my bedroom which is right at the end of the small corridor where teh kitten bathroom is). If she ever goes there she will sniff a bit and roam about in her depressed way. When she smells the kitten on me she will try to keep away as if disgusted - but usually she doesn't hiss.

So I tried the following. Letting kitten (I think I'll call her

Soleil

btw) run around the house while Singa sleeps in the study with closed door. Singa is not impressed.
I try going to Signa for a big cuddle directly after the playtime with Soleil (with her smell and all). She doesn't really want to cuddle with me having kitten smell all over the body.
I sprayed Feliway around the bathroom door area (they don't sell the electrical thingy in Singapore I think). Singa hates feliway I think. She looked disgusted at least.
I tried feeding Singa in close to the bathroom door with her favorite food, so she will associate yummy food with kitten smell

, but she won't even touch the food there.

I bought the vanilla thingy today, but I have the bad feeling that that also will fail. Shall I permanently put it on both? Or just when I want them to meet? I really need dummy-proof instructions on this please!

I really have no more clue what to do

- I have the feeling Signa just doesn't like Soleil at even if she ever gets used to her, she will tolerate her but not more....

I really need some motivation....

First Congrats on the new addition!! I just love her name! It's beautiful.

Second I need to ask you a few questions...

1. How old is Signa?

2. How long have you had Soleil?

x-ta-z · Feb 14, 2007

Originally Posted by snosrap5

First Congrats on the new addition!! I just love her name! It's beautiful.

Second I need to ask you a few questions...

1. How old is Signa?

2. How long have you had Soleil?

Singa is approx. 1.5 yrs (she is a stray's baby). Soleil I brought back last Sunday (so 4 days). I know it's not long, but I don't see any improvement at all

snosrap5 · Feb 14, 2007

Originally Posted by x-ta-Z

Singa is approx. 1.5 yrs (she is a stray's baby). Soleil I brought back last Sunday (so 4 days). I know it's not long, but I don't see any improvement at all

You may not see any improvement for weeks. I know that sounds horrible but it really is true. Singa is still young enough that she will start to see Soleil as a playmate soon. Continue with the feliway and I would use the vanilla every day. I use both constantly. I don't have any problems with my crew but I do have one cat Trouble who doesn't do well in stressful situations and sometimes the littlest thing sets her off. So the feliway and the vanilla tend to help minimize problems.

Continue keeping them separated for the time being if they are fighting. Hissing really is ok. That is like a warning to Soleil to back off. Singa is pouting right now, just make sure she continues eating and make sure you give her lots of loving.

You can also place a towel or blanket where Singa sleeps and rub that all over Soleil so that she smells like Singa. It really does take time and patients just don't give up yet.

x-ta-z · Feb 14, 2007

Thanks Eva! You're giving me hope

Originally Posted by snosrap5

Continue with the feliway and I would use the vanilla every day. I use both constantly. I don't have any problems with my crew but I do have one cat Trouble who doesn't do well in stressful situations and sometimes the littlest thing sets her off. So the feliway and the vanilla tend to help minimize problems.

Is the vanilla there to make them smell alike or does it also work like feliway (not that I really understand the way feliway works, but is vanilla to calm them??). So you still use this after many years or will they eventually be ok without the feliway and vanilla??

Originally Posted by snosrap5

Continue keeping them separated for the time being if they are fighting. Hissing really is ok. That is like a warning to Soleil to back off. Singa is pouting right now, just make sure she continues eating and make sure you give her lots of loving.

You can also place a towel or blanket where Singa sleeps and rub that all over Soleil so that she smells like Singa. It really does take time and patients just don't give up yet.

Singa is more firghtend than ready to attack I think, but I still don't want to put them together just yet. So I am trying to give both same amount of loving, but seperated.
But I really feel sad seeing Singa liek that... and also sad if I can't give Soleil all the attention she needs in this age

Right now Singa is in the study and Soleil is jumping all over the plcae in the living room. She is such a doll and really deserves to be loved by Singa.

BTW, any idea why a female cat doesn't have teh motherly protecting instinct with a little bubble of 6 weeks?? I really would have guessed she be motherly....

snosrap5 · Feb 14, 2007

Originally Posted by x-ta-Z

Thanks Eva! You're giving me hope

Is the vanilla there to make them smell alike or does it also work like feliway (not that I really understand the way feliway works, but is vanilla to calm them??). So you still use this after many years or will they eventually be ok without the feliway and vanilla??

The vanilla masks their own scent and makes everyone smell exactly the same. I still use feliway everyday. I have the plug-ins and the spray. I only use the vanilla maybe once a month or so. Or any time someone has a vet appointment, which with my crew is once a month.

I have started using Resource remedy with my Persian who just had knee surgery. He was very agitated, upset, stressed. Pami recommended this and I love it!
Here is a website. I don't know if you can get it in Singapore but I bought mine at a health food store. I bought the oil form and you rub it on the ears and the pads of their feet.

http://www.bachflower.com/

Originally Posted by x-ta-Z

Singa is more firghtend than ready to attack I think, but I still don't want to put them together just yet. So I am trying to give both same amount of loving, but seperated.
But I really feel sad seeing Singa liek that... and also sad if I can't give Soleil all the attention she needs in this age

Right now Singa is in the study and Soleil is jumping all over the plcae in the living room. She is such a doll and really deserves to be loved by Singa.

BTW, any idea why a female cat doesn't have teh motherly protecting instinct with a little bubble of 6 weeks?? I really would have guessed she be motherly....

Singa isn't going to show any motherly love. Not until they become friends. To Singa, Soleil is nothing but trouble at this point. When you let Soleil out to run the house open the door where Singa is. Just don't force the issue by trying to bring them both together. Let them make that first move.

x-ta-z · Feb 14, 2007

Originally Posted by snosrap5

When you let Soleil out to run the house open the door where Singa is. Just don't force the issue by trying to bring them both together. Let them make that first move.

Thanks! I'll give it a shot e of se days

I'm just worried that if I let them 'meet' eachother personally too early that I may ruin the potential friendship... you know... you never get a second chacne to make a first impression...

Anywho... Soleil is back in her bathroom and Singa didn't bother to get up from "her" office chair, not even to sniff underneath the door

Maybe there is progress, but I don't see it.

I'm full of hope again! Thanks!

x-ta-z · Feb 15, 2007

Today I put Vanilla on all of us. I smell like a cake.

I haven't put the two together, but I have the feeling Signa would still not be ok. I Took one of my shirts that Soleil has been sleeping on and put a small drop of the vanilla on it as well (after I put Vanilla on all of us) and Singa would jsut carefully sniff and then go away to sulk.

I'm really clueless, why it all doesn't work. Or do I really need tons more patience???

rosiemac · Feb 15, 2007

Originally Posted by x-ta-Z

Or do I really need tons more patience???

In a nutshell, yes. Just take it one day at a time and they will get there

theimp98 · Feb 15, 2007

it can take some time, I think it was over a month before i let the kitten out. and even then i stayed with them. the old cat will still hiss at the kitten sometimes now. But it seems now more cause the older cat is not in the mood to play anymore. However i could still not call them friends yet.

give it time. There is alot of good advice here. i know they helped me alot.

x-ta-z · Feb 15, 2007

I gave the little one a bath with Singa's shampoo and then rubbed her down with a towel which I rubbed all over Singa before. Then I put a dab of Vanilla on Soleil and ran around the house holding her. Singa watched carefully every step I made, but in a ready-to-hide way.

Then I let Soleil roam around with my supervision. Singa watched her every move at first and started hissing as soon as she came closer than 1.5 meters. I gave Singa some of her favorite treats, which she eventually ate when she felt 'safe' (meaning the kitten wasn't in direct sight). She was also sitting in a more relaxed way than before with her from paws curled under her chest.

The bad news I will put in a second thread, as it is a topic itself - of course well known to you all, but I just need to write it out of my system... and maybe you guys have a word or two to help me get over my anger....

laureen227 · Feb 15, 2007

when i got Cable, Pixel & Mouse were 7. Cable was maybe 8 weeks old [like Soleil, she was a foundling, so i really don't know for sure]. they hated her - hissed at her all the time, etc. Mouse passed away a couple of months later [she was Pixel's littermate]. by then, Pixel had accepted Cable, but they weren't what you would call friends. about 4 months after that, tho, i found this...

so just be patient!

malakaiii · Feb 15, 2007

My kitten is OUT of the bathroom and I officially have TWO cats!

So far it's been an interesting few hours. Tak is babysitting Pixel and following her EVERYwhere. Pixel is just being kitteny and silly and I can see that the babysitter is having a hard time keeping up!

A few hisses and knocks on the skull for Pixel so far, but it's not phasing her. We clipped everyone's claws down before the big introduction, but there haven't been any scary moments. I think Tak likes the company and adjusted REALLY quick.

They both just seem GOGOGO trying to keep up with each other! Do they ever sleep again?!

We'll see what the next few days bring, but I'm excited it went so well!

x-ta-z · Feb 15, 2007

Originally Posted by Malakaiii

My kitten is OUT of the bathroom and I officially have TWO cats!

So far it's been an interesting few hours. Tak is babysitting Pixel and following her EVERYwhere. Pixel is just being kitteny and silly and I can see that the babysitter is having a hard time keeping up!

A few hisses and knocks on the skull for Pixel so far, but it's not phasing her. We clipped everyone's claws down before the big introduction, but there haven't been any scary moments. I think Tak likes the company and adjusted REALLY quick.

They both just seem GOGOGO trying to keep up with each other! Do they ever sleep again?!

We'll see what the next few days bring, but I'm excited it went so well!

OMG!! That is AWSOME!!!!

I'm sooo happy for the 2 (and you of course)!
It gives me hope... tell me how u did the final introduction

pretty please!!!!

I am thinking of moving Soleil to the guestroom so she has more space, but after her peeing issue yesterday I am not sure anymore.

walthamstowuk · Feb 16, 2007

Gosh, reading all these is like talking about my own house right now! I'm sending you all good wishes and vibes.....

Can anyone help, it's week 2 and all the cats are out and the old cat I have just taken in has now ventured downstairs. This is a positive step, except that she STILL hisses at the kittens and actually has now taken to chasing them whenever she sees them.

When either myself or my fiance are around the old cat molly doesn't chase (I think she's smart!) but as soon as we disappear she'll wander around, see one of the kittens and go for her.

So far no actual fights just chasing. Molly is 11 and the 2 kittens are 8 months so I think they could out run her!

Yesterday we came home to find Molly had escaped through the cat flap and was patrolling our garden fence and one of the kittens was out too, and we think was too scared to come home! We got Molly in and the kitten followed soon after with lots of coaxing.

Any help hints tips would be a real life saver, because as other people have been saying this whole introductions thing is soo stressful and I feel so upset for my kittens as they now look permanently scared and are are a bit jumpy (understandably)

I've used vanilla that that does seem to calm them down, but like others have said it's not so much the smell it's the SIGHT was soon as she sees the kittens she goes for them.

I've shut her in a room today whilst Im at work and I'll let her out this evening as I want the kittens to have a fun day and not be so scared...
Please help!

x-ta-z · Feb 16, 2007

Originally Posted by WalthamstowUK

Any help hints tips would be a real life saver, because as other people have been saying this whole introductions thing is soo stressful and I feel so upset for my kittens as they now look permanently scared and are are a bit jumpy (understandably)

Oh no! I'm so sorry to hear that! I fully understand the situation you are. I'm not sure if I am of any help, as my situation (as you know) is similar but not the same. I have noticed that Singa has calmed down with the Feliway which I sprayed into the air of the living room (main interaction area). The vanilla thing I also do not know if it works because Singa is just not happy with the sight of the kitten, but there has been much progress since I use both Feliway and Vanilla, but then again... I never had the problem that signa would chase the little monster.
I also started giving Singa treats when we let the kitten roam around and she is a bit reluctant but will eat it eventually.

Today was a very good day.

We came home and I took care of cuddling Signa while my BF took Soleil to our bedroom to give her some playtime. After 5 min I also went to the bedroom and closed the door (because of the kitten). Singa came to the door meowing. I wasn't too sure if it was a good idea just opening the door, so I held the kitten in my arm while I did so. Singa kept meowing and rubbing around my legs, so I squatted in front of her with Soleil still in my arms. Singa didn't even notice at first. She came to sniff the 'thing' in my arms and then let out a short hiss.
So I ended the session for the time being, but was happy that Singa go so close to her.
Later we let Soleil roam around the house with Singa in the living room with her. I was extremely surprised because there was no hissing at all. Even with Soleil running 1 foot up to her. .... until she tried to sniff the treat I had put down in front of Singa (which she didn't eat right away as she was observing the situation). Then a big hiss, an inferior kitten and done with. However, from then on Singa (although she was lying relaxed on her side) hissed when Soleil got closer than 1 foot of her.

I don't know if this helps, but maybe you try the whole thing over again? with confinement and then rewarding Molly when she is around the kittens??

Sorry... I wish I could help more!

malakaiii · Feb 16, 2007

I'll share a bit more about last night's big introduction for you.

The cats had both had a really good day and were getting really excited to finally meet! They'd both been trying to duck around our legs when we would go in and out of the bathroom, so we figured it was time to have a go at it.

I called Tak in from the porch so that she would be able to see the bathroom door open and know what was happening (better than her wandering inside later to find a little 'intruder'!) She was across the hall when we opened the bathroom door and Pixel strolled out. I kept reminding my boyfriend (and myself) to be relaxed and to say nice things to calm them down cuz they can pick up on our anxiousness.

Pixel galloped right over to Tak cuz she lived with cats before and was friends with them. Tak has been an only cat for so long, though! While they stood and stared at each other, I grabbed a bag of treats and dumped a pile out on the floor. The treat-party worked pretty good because they both munched those and it put them in a good mood!

Then basically Tak followed Pixel's every move for the next 3 hours! Tak seemed to really want to play with her, though, and would hide and then pounce at her (not on her). We left them out all night together and there were no spats or crying at all... but they both looked tired this morning!

Today has been a lot of sleeping in different rooms. Tak is back in her spot at the foot of our bed and Pixel has commandeered the window seat. Pixel even calmed down enough earlier to come have a cuddle with me on the couch! AND I haven't heard any hissing yet today.

I'm waiting for the Feliway to arrive in the mail, still. That should calm everyone down a bit further...

laureen227 · Feb 16, 2007

have you posted a picture of your Pixel yet? mine is the tuxedo cat in my avatar...

malakaiii · Feb 16, 2007

My Pixel is a tuxedo too. She's 14 weeks old.

How long does it take?

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Darksome Duo!

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