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Documentary on evangilists by Pelosi's daughter.

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Sorry I don't have the title, it was on HBO the other night and will be repeated.
Did you see it? What did you think? I thought it was frightening the way they are brainwashing their children into denouncing evolution and science and any other way of thinking other than their way.

They were blatant about how they want to control the country, and from what I saw in this documentary, I'd say another 20 years and they will, by shear numbers alone. It is frightening. Jerry Falwell was frightening. This country was founded on freedom of religion, and separation of church and state, and they want to undo all of it.
Try to see it.
post #2 of 28
Some of the hard-core churches ARE frightening :para: I have had such people try to "convert" me; I just remember that Satan himself quotes Scripture to justify what he does and wants And the Bible is the Living Word, so it will speak to each of us as individuals and we will each have a different interpretation (usu.)as it applies to each one of our lives, sometimes the same, sometimes differently. As a Christian, I try to remind myself of Great Commandment to honor God above all others and the love my neighbor (fellow earth dwellers, not my literal community neighbors or fellow countrymen only) as myself - I fall short in doing this, but reminding myself to try keeps me from getting misled by doctrines that are hell-bent on brainwashing me.
post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I try to remind myself of Great Commandment to honor God above all others and the love my neighbor (fellow earth dwellers, not my literal community neighbors or fellow countrymen only) as myself - I fall short in doing this, but reminding myself to try keeps me from getting misled by doctrines that are hell-bent on brainwashing me.
This documentary shows thousands of children who will never have a chance to think for themselves. I imagine a few may grow up and "rebel" but the percentage will be small, if it follows along the lines of other "rebellious" individuals.

It is scary.
post #4 of 28
Please elaborate more on this. What are these children being brain washed to think?

I don't have HBO.

Pelosi's daughter isn't someone I would just arbitrarily believe, so could I have some more in depth explanation of what this program consisted of.
post #5 of 28
I saw that it was on, but seemed a bit heavy for my mood that evening.

Here's the link to HBO's synopsis of it: http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/fri.../synopsis.html

Honestly, though I definitely don't agree with the Evangelical movement/fanatic religious right, I wouldn't really trust Pelosi's daughter to make an unbiased documentary about this topic. Not any more than I would trust GWB's daughters to make an unbiased documentary of embrionic stem cell research.
post #6 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
I saw that it was on, but seemed a bit heavy for my mood that evening.

Here's the link to HBO's synopsis of it: http://www.hbo.com/docs/programs/fri.../synopsis.html

Honestly, though I definitely don't agree with the Evangelical movement/fanatic religious right, I wouldn't really trust Pelosi's daughter to make an unbiased documentary about this topic. Not any more than I would trust GWB's daughters to make an unbiased documentary of embrionic stem cell research.
Isn't Pelosi's daughter known as a GWB supporter?
I recall hearing the same fears about evangelists roughly 20 years ago, but they don't seem to have made much progress, seeing as many election analysts consider the results of the last U.S. elections a backlash against their agenda.
post #7 of 28
I think I saw it. They think there is a war on religion.... was it shot in Texas?? It was pretty distrubing
post #8 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats View Post
Sorry I don't have the title, it was on HBO the other night and will be repeated.
Did you see it? What did you think? I thought it was frightening the way they are brainwashing their children into denouncing evolution and science and any other way of thinking other than their way.

They were blatant about how they want to control the country, and from what I saw in this documentary, I'd say another 20 years and they will, by shear numbers alone. It is frightening. Jerry Falwell was frightening. This country was founded on freedom of religion, and separation of church and state, and they want to undo all of it.
Try to see it.

I don't believe in evolution either. To me, it is not a bad thing to bring kids to Christ, I think it is a great thing. I don't understand the fear here.
post #9 of 28
Evolution is fact. Whether you reconcile that with your belief system is up to you, but saying you don't believe in evolution is like saying you don't believe in hurricanes or that illness can be caused by viruses. It's such an absurd debate to me, because one side says "Here is a fact, and it doesn't makie your belief wrong because religion is not the place of science" while the other side says it is one or the other. It is having one group of people say everyone can have chocolate or vanilla ice cream and another group saying EVERYONE has to have vanilla.

Anyway, people who think that everyone else must think exactly like them are scary, regardless of what that thing they think is. And religion has no place in politics or government, but it seems like some of the extremely far gone religious nuts think that government has no place in America outside the church. These are the people who claim they are patriotic, but have said things like that the people who died in 9/11 deserved it because America harbors gay people. I've never heard a dumber thing in my life.

It is not scary that these people exist, I suppose. It is scary that people send them billions of dollars to spew hate in the name of Jesus all over TV, and it is scary that some members of the Republican party (sorry, but they are really all republicans) cater so exclusively to this obsessively close-minded MINORITY instead of to the people they've been elected to represent.
post #10 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
I recall hearing the same fears about evangelists roughly 20 years ago, but they don't seem to have made much progress, seeing as many election analysts consider the results of the last U.S. elections a backlash against their agenda.
This is where you are wrong. 20 years ago they were considered "bizarre" Today they do influence politics, thus 8 years of GWB.
For those of you that think it was shot with an agenda, it was not. You have to see that it shows these workings without a bias, I put my interpretation on the way I percieved it, just as others may think it is perfectly ok.
Quote:
I don't believe in evolution either. To me, it is not a bad thing to bring kids to Christ, I think it is a great thing. I don't understand the fear here.
My point is these people are slowly taking over, and I think we have a lot to fear,
Quote:
obsessively close-minded MINORITY
They will not be a minority for long, the way things are going. I might add I did not see one person of color. The key here will be for the churches that preach politlics be denied tax exemption, but this church is trying to get around that with semantics. I recommend you see this film, and it was not shot with a bias, it presented documented activities of which the documentary participants boasted. I am sure the evangelists saw nothing wrong with it.
post #11 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by gailuvscats View Post
the way they are brainwashing their children into denouncing evolution and science and any other way of thinking other than their way.

They were blatant about how they want to control the country, and from what I saw in this documentary, I'd say another 20 years and they will, by shear numbers alone. It is frightening. Jerry Falwell was frightening. This country was founded on freedom of religion, and separation of church and state, and they want to undo all of it.
Try to see it.
VS who the free thinking groups that are only free thinking if your thinking matches there thinking?

Most people christen people i know, think jerry is crazy, some with the 700 club. How i think people that want to take god out of everything are also just as Frightening. Puts them right up there with Communist who banned wanted to band all Religion.

What all groups miss is that creation and Evolution are both in use. TO lazy to go and link the sites, but if you look you will find millions of years of nothing, then bam there is life on earth, some fully formed. anyone that thinks, that one or the other is the only truth is wrong. I think it is just as bad, to say one evolution is the answer. If we came from monkey or aps, then i think i would be more into eating fruits and ants then what i am.

" This country was founded on freedom of religion, and separation of church and state"

100% right, FREEDOM OF not freedom from religion. People are free to not go to church, not to listen to someone preach etc. You dont have to listen if you dont want.
Turn your head, change the channel, sleep in and play with the kitties on a sunday morning if you so wish.

i could make a documentary at the same time how liberal thinking, gay marriage, people that like cats are going to take over the country if i wanted to. its TV they are going to show you what they want you to think.

PS IMO jerry is a nut case,
post #12 of 28
Thread Starter 
[quote=theimp98;1558128]VS who the free thinking groups that are only free thinking if your thinking matches there thinking?

That is not what I said, that is what the documentary preaches.

Quote:
You dont have to listen if you dont want.
Turn your head, change the channel, sleep in and play with the kitties on a sunday morning if you so wish.
That is what people have been doing with this group for the past 20 years, and look what happened, GWB.

Quote:
i could make a documentary at the same time how liberal thinking, gay marriage, people that like cats are going to take over the country if i wanted to.
No you could not because you would be hard pressed finding material to film, since it does not exist. This is a documentary.

Furthermore, I posted this so people would watch the documentary and come to their own conclusion. If you meant what you said about most christians thinking Jerry FAlwell as a nut, you would not respond so cavalier about this film, because that is not the case here, and your freedoms would be just as threatened as mine, because their intention is to control the USA.
post #13 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
VS who the free thinking groups that are only free thinking if your thinking matches there thinking?

Most people christen people i know, think jerry is crazy, some with the 700 club. How i think people that want to take god out of everything are also just as Frightening. Puts them right up there with Communist who banned wanted to band all Religion.

What all groups miss is that creation and Evolution are both in use. TO lazy to go and link the sites, but if you look you will find millions of years of nothing, then bam there is life on earth, some fully formed. anyone that thinks, that one or the other is the only truth is wrong. I think it is just as bad, to say one evolution is the answer. If we came from monkey or aps, then i think i would be more into eating fruits and ants then what i am.

" This country was founded on freedom of religion, and separation of church and state"

100% right, FREEDOM OF not freedom from religion. People are free to not go to church, not to listen to someone preach etc. You dont have to listen if you dont want.
Turn your head, change the channel, sleep in and play with the kitties on a sunday morning if you so wish.

i could make a documentary at the same time how liberal thinking, gay marriage, people that like cats are going to take over the country if i wanted to. its TV they are going to show you what they want you to think.

PS IMO jerry is a nut case,
I'm with Bruce on this one! I'll leave it at that
post #14 of 28
[quote=gailuvscats;1558145]
Quote:
Originally Posted by theimp98 View Post
VS who the free thinking groups that are only free thinking if your thinking matches there thinking?

That is not what I said, that is what the documentary preaches.


That is what people have been doing with this group for the past 20 years, and look what happened, GWB.



No you could not because you would be hard pressed finding material to film, since it does not exist. This is a documentary.

Furthermore, I posted this so people would watch the documentary and come to their own conclusion. If you meant what you said about most christians thinking Jerry FAlwell as a nut, you would not respond so cavalier about this film, because that is not the case here, and your freedoms would be just as threatened as mine, because their intention is to control the USA.

And no i would not have a hard time finding material to make one with the different view point. all you have to do is be able to think like the other side does.

i would respond cavalier, cause that is how i am
post #15 of 28
Not all evangelicals or conservative Christians are like Jerry Falwell, Dr Dobson, or the guy from the 700 club. I can't think of his name but he is the one who is always coming up with something really bizarre to say about foreign leaders. I have been in and out of some churches that were evangelical or conservative in nature and most of the people I met were nothing like these people. It is like any other group that becomes controversial, it is the people on the extreme fringe that are the most vocal, get all the attention and always come up with the money to stay in the public eye. If she is like her mother, with the same political viewpoint, she is going to exploit the well known extremes. People from these churches who are more moderate in their views are starting to find their voice. I have heard of groups coming out for environmental concerns and Democratic political candidates.
post #16 of 28
I have no problem with parenats teaching their kids their own beliefs. As the child grows older they will be exposed to other ways of thinking and then they can decide what axactly they believe.

As for the talks of evolution like Ckblv I have a hard time with it. I was not particularly raised believing in creationism. Actually I was not raised to beileve either which way. As I grew older and heard both sides evolution just had its faults that make it harder for me to beileve and understand. Does not mean I am uneducated just means with whats presented it doesn't sit right with me.
post #17 of 28
Evolution is scientific fact. Creationism is religious philosophy. The fact that anyone believes they are competing, and equally provable ideas, shows just how far extremists have gotten. They have prevented schools from teaching science. (Please notice I said provable... there is nothing provable about creationism, and that is precisely why it isn't science. It is something you either believe on faith or not. And you can learn about the facts of evolution and still believe that God set it in motion and decides how creatures will adapt. If you want, evolution could be the scientific study of something that God is doing every day) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/

If you don't think evolution is real, then how to bacteria become antibiotic resistant? That is something that has happened in our life time, due to natural selection, which is of course, evolution.
post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Evolution is scientific fact. Creationism is religious philosophy. The fact that anyone believes they are competing, and equally provable ideas, shows just how far extremists have gotten. They have prevented schools from teaching science. (Please notice I said provable... there is nothing provable about creationism, and that is precisely why it isn't science. It is something you either believe on faith or not. And you can learn about the facts of evolution and still believe that God set it in motion and decides how creatures will adapt. If you want, evolution could be the scientific study of something that God is doing every day) http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/

If you don't think evolution is real, then how to bacteria become antibiotic resistant? That is something that has happened in our life time, due to natural selection, which is of course, evolution.

I agree. Id like some more information from the people who dont "believe" in evolution as to why they dont "believe" in it? I have believe in quotes, because to me, belief is something that is grounded on faith, and evolution doesnt come on faith, it comes on fact. As an example, I have raised cultures of bacteria myself, and changed their environment myself, and observed how they respond, mostly die off, then robustly develop more suited to their environment. I have observed microorganisms acquire the ability to bioluminesce in dark environments. I can do these experiments, which ARE the induction and observed progress of evolution, in a couple of days. Liken it to playing God if you will, but that says right out that God is playing evolution. I could reconcile that notion, but I cannot under any circumstances reconcile the complete disbelief of evolution. And I have to again mention that evolution DOES NOT state that humans CAME FROM apes. It states that Humans and Apes share a common ancestor, that we are more closely related than other species are.
post #19 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
Evolution is fact. Whether you reconcile that with your belief system is up to you, but saying you don't believe in evolution is like saying you don't believe in hurricanes or that illness can be caused by viruses. It's such an absurd debate to me, because one side says "Here is a fact, and it doesn't makie your belief wrong because religion is not the place of science" while the other side says it is one or the other. It is having one group of people say everyone can have chocolate or vanilla ice cream and another group saying EVERYONE has to have vanilla.

Anyway, people who think that everyone else must think exactly like them are scary, regardless of what that thing they think is. And religion has no place in politics or government, but it seems like some of the extremely far gone religious nuts think that government has no place in America outside the church. These are the people who claim they are patriotic, but have said things like that the people who died in 9/11 deserved it because America harbors gay people. I've never heard a dumber thing in my life.

It is not scary that these people exist, I suppose. It is scary that people send them billions of dollars to spew hate in the name of Jesus all over TV, and it is scary that some members of the Republican party (sorry, but they are really all republicans) cater so exclusively to this obsessively close-minded MINORITY instead of to the people they've been elected to represent.
So you are saying that all Evangelical Christians are whacko's? WOW And all Evangelical's spew hate. Double Wow

I am a Christian and no one MUST believe as I do. I would love to see all people to come to Jesus, but I would never tell anyone they MUST. It is all free will.

No, I do not believe in evolution, so call me absurd. Just because you or any scientist says it makes no difference to me. I did not evolve from a monkey.
I was created by my Heavenly Father as a human, not a monkey.
post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
So you are saying that all Evangelical Christians are whacko's? WOW And all Evangelical's spew hate. Double Wow

I am a Christian and no one MUST believe as I do. I would love to see all people to come to Jesus, but I would never tell anyone they MUST. It is all free will.

No, I do not believe in evolution, so call me absurd. Just because you or any scientist says it makes no difference to me. I did not evolve from a monkey.
I was created by my Heavenly Father as a human, not a monkey.
No, that is not what was said or implied, and it is pretty clear that it is not.
Would you believe the earth is flat, and the sun revolves around us?
post #21 of 28
But the topic of the thread IS about evangelicals, so that is why I thought that is what she was talking about.

So, are you implying that because I don't believe in evolution I am stupid and believe the earth is flat? Wow, that isn't very nice.
post #22 of 28
Thread Starter 
Quote:
But the topic of the thread IS about evangelicals, so that is why I thought that is what she was talking about.

So, are you implying that because I don't believe in evolution I am stupid and believe the earth is flat? Wow, that isn't very nice.
The topic of the thread is what do people think of this particular documentary, which has generated a number of thoughts, none based on seeing the film.
whatever you perceive from another persons post is up to you. There was nothing personal said about you, and your comment could be percieved as inflammatory, so it is probably best you don't go there.
post #23 of 28
Let's stop the bickering, folks, i.e., cool it with the personal remarks.
post #24 of 28
I apologize for any offense I may have caused, I surely did not mean to.
Peace.
post #25 of 28
My husband was dying to see that special... anyone want to mail me a copy?

Your descriptions reminded me of a documentary I saw recently, Jesus Camp. It is indeed scary. I don't think they're going to "take over the country" (although they came close with Bush), but they are a very large vocal minority, and lots of moderate Christians support them without even knowing it. They are a stealthy group that knows how to manipulate politics for their benefit. They use wedge issues like abortion and homosexuality to get moderate Christians to vote in politicians that are wackier than they realize. Because of that, I do think they are overrepresented in our government.

(Backing you up Zissou ) Evolution is fact, and it's not incompatible with a belief in God at all. It isn't a threat to Christianity... one can believe in God and evolution at the same time. Much of our modern technology and especially medicine is based in evolutionary theory. Now, they don't have the details worked out, and the theory is being tweaked as more research and observation is able to be done, but the general idea is fact. Evolution doesn't say you are an ape. Evolution says you are Homo sapiens... a HUMAN! Evolution merely says that hominids evolved from primates... what's so controversial about that? I don't get why some get so offended (I guess lingering hostility from the Scopes Monkey Trial). I do think it takes a bit of scientific background to truly understand evolution... so I can understand that many average people don't "get it..." but once one understands genetics and biology to a certain degree, there is NO other explanation for how life works. Evolution isn't an explanation of the ORIGIN of life, merely how life continues to change over time.

I don't want to start a Creationism debate here, but I have always wondered one thing... why are there two creation stories in the Bible, with two different orders of creation? How is it possible to take one story literally and not the other, especially when one claims to be a biblical literalist? Why not just take it for what it is, a primitive myth meant to explain one people's version of the general origins of life, not the day-by-day workings of a god? How exactly is evolution incompatible with the Christian God?

Okay, maybe that will start a debate... sorry. Just don't ask me about the scientific details of evolution... ask my husband. He was the biology major. On a side note, a good site that explains some of the basics is www.talkorigins.org. The PBS website has some good stuff too.
post #26 of 28
May be beating a dead horse, but I in no way meant to imply that all Christians or even all Evangelical Christians are anything like my charicature of the Jerry Falwells and Pat Robertsons and Ted Haggards of the world. To me, those people do not believe in anything but money and power and hypocrisy. They are not Christian, and I feel the same way I do towards them about the Ken Lays and Dick Cheneys.

Anyway, I will never understand how the idea that animals adapt to their environment is threatening to someone's religion. I suppose that is a fault in my ability to understand others' points of view, because I really would like to. There was a time when people were absolutely terrified of the idea that the earth revolved around the sun, and it elicited pretty much the exact same reaction.

I remember asking my father about the evolution vs the Bible idea the first time I read it, and we had a long talk, the result of which was pretty much, what greater creatures could God create than ones which were able to adapt to their environment? There is no way for a species that never changes to survive, unless it were the paragon of animals-- in which case none would get sick, none would have genetic abnormalities, none would go extinct. People seem to make evolution much more complicated than it is, but you see it every day. Cat and dog breeds, one color of squirrel becoming more prominent in your area, viruses causing different symptoms in two different people... things that you have seen with your own eyes. There is indisputable evidence for the scientific concept. It is a reality that our dna is remarkably similar to certain primates...whether you believe it or not.
post #27 of 28
Well, in the past I have heard some people say those things are merely evidence for what they call "microevolution" or natural selection and the evolution within one species. They don't see evidence for what they call "macroevolution," the process of one species becoming another. The problem I see there is that we aren't alive long enough to witness any dramatic changes like that... it takes millions of years for something to evolve into a totally different species!

But hey, look at the duck-billed platypus... and tell me that comical creature is not a living transitional fossil!
post #28 of 28
Yes, there are some people that CALL themselves Evangelical Christians that ARE in it for the money and power, for sure.

But there are also wonderful examples of good Christians that are Evangelicals. Billy Graham is an awesome man that has, with the Lord's help,
brought thousands of people to Christ.

There are millions of good Christians quietly going about their daily lives, serving Christ. But we don't hear about them much. It is the same with the rest of the news, we hear about the bad people.

I do take the Holy Bible literally. I know in my heart it is not a "myth"
Creation happened as the Bible said it happened.
I believe in the Big Bang, that is how God manifested the universe.
It is wonderful, mystical and supernatural and I love it.
Cindy
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