A very depressing reality...

Oh My Gosh, I can't watch that stuff!

It is a very scary thought..I try not to think about it so I don't freak out

Eh, don't take life so seriously. You'll never get out of it alive.

All that stuff is scientific conjectute. If one fact is wrong, the whole thing changes.

I don't like to think about these things but I guess we all should but I guess considering the bible says the world will go with fire maybe sometimes science and the bible prove each other. And I think rather than worrying about what will happen at the end of time we should be worrying about how we live our lives and not doing things that we will regret later. Meaning living by a certain standard of ethics.

I dont think about these things either, if we die, we die.. Thats life!

Since this is a pretty "heavy" thread, I'll move this to IMO.

My personal opinion is that it is pretty egocentric to think that we mere humans can do so much that we actually alter the world's climate. Have we harmed the earth? No doubt. But I think the earth is bigger than the sum total of us - it was here before us, and will be here after us. What the global warming crowd ignores are the global climate changes that have been occurring for centuries, and long before the technology of today that is claimed to be responsible for these same climate changes.

Don't get me wrong - I do try to be socially responsible and use eco-friendly products. But I do so more out of the short term impacts than because of the fear-mongering of global warming.

I'd have to say that the reason for climate change is twofold: perhaps the climate is simply warming, as it does from time to time over the long ages.

But

We're simply not doing anything to help ourselves or the world. THere is no doubt in my mind that we're speeding this climate change up with all of the crap we pump into the air and atmosphere. The science is all there.

No no... that's what the IMO forum is for! You may see some views you don't agree with here, but it's a great place to see both sides of the issues. I read through threads here over and over on topics that I thought that I "knew" and people here bring up really good counter points.

I absolutely agree with this statement. However, I do believe that humans are altering the climate and that if we don't keep it in check, the earth will go on without humans in it.

Yes, the earth has had warming and cooling cycles during its entire existance. The warming that we are seeing now is being accelerated by human activity. We are contributing to a natural cycle.

I had a physicist friend that used to say: Nature always finds the fatal flaw.

That is the most dangerous argument against global warming, and, unfortunately, the most misinformed. It always upsets me when intelligent, educated people refuse to acknowledge the very dangerous reality of climate change. Yuh, there's no way the world can be round either, is there?

If you take a look at the research that has been done, the quantitative measures taken to examine this (for close to fifty years), you will find that not only do we most certainly have the power to change the earth's climate, it's happened already and all that is left to us is to try to fix it. And it's not egocentric to believe that we could be responsible for it. There are 6 BILLION of us! The average American CAT has a larger global footprint than the average person living in India. That is also just plain true.

Of course global climate changes have been occurring for centuries, but not with anywhere near the rapidity and magnitude in such a short time as has happened now. And nobody in the `global warming crowd' has ignored that. They've just disproved it. There is proof of the reasons for it - namely, greenhouse emissions. It's not a joke, and it's not `conjecture' and anyone who doesn't believe it is deliberately burying their head in the sand. It's not a political ploy, it's just the TRUTH.

This topic is not a matter of opinion. It doesn't matter what you think, it's happening, without a doubt, it's our fault, without a doubt, and it's up to us to fix it.

Go see An Inconvenient Truth. It explains it much better than I can - visually and with graphs so you can actually see how irrelevant the whole `the climate's been changing for centuries' argument really is.

Besides, is this something you really want to be wrong about? Honestly? Because if you are, (and you are) then you don't want Mother Earth to be saying `I told you so'.

Relax Kit!!!

There are just as many scientists that argue against Global Warming as argue for it. And it is a matter of opinion my dear, just like everything in this Forum.

That may be true - but I think you'll find that there aren't JUST as many....perhaps some. Trust me, this has been a topic of a lot of personal research and a lot of personal interest. It's too important not to be.

It's not about politics, it's about this being the only place we have to live.

Basically, for those who are sceptical, I still think to you the risk that it IS true is just too high. I don't know if people who don't believe this would be really prepared to accept the consequences if they're wrong. So I don't like to take that risk. I believe it, I believe the proof I see before me, the proof I feel every time I leave the house (honestly - it's SO obvious in Australia it's just unreal) because to NOT believe and to be proved wrong is just too dangerous.

IMO

I saw that show you were watching before.

OK, I'll probably get a lot of flame for this but I'll say it anyways.

IMO they put the global warming thing as number one because that is the issue that will "scare" us currently. I'm NOT discounting that global warming isn't happening. I'm just saying that I believe that show to have been a propoganda for global warming.

I don't think you'll get flamed for that. Goodness knows our governments in the past few years have certainly not shied away from using scare tactics to coerce us into submission. Because of the trend of using scare campaigns to keep voters on their toes, global warming is very likely to be seen as the same thing.

Unfortunately I just don't think we can scare people enough about this issue, we should be scared - it's the scariest thing that has happened in my life time.

I agree with you Sarah. And whether people believe in global warming or not, is it going to hurt anything if everyone did cut down on polluting and emitting the green house gases???

We may be helped by those we least expect it from. Since its been so warm,(it was over 70 degrees here in New England yesterday breaking the record by at least 7 degrees) we're using less oil, gas, etc. for heating, so the big oil companies may want to help cool the world down.

Yeah, that! Even if you go into it thinking "I am absolutely going to hate this, and it will be totally exaggerated and not based in fact" Go see the movie.

There is nothing "conjecture" or "not yet proven" or "unstable" about global warming. EVERY other industrialized country in the world has moved way beyond the denial stage into the trying-to-stop-the-flood-we-created stage. We just haven't, in part because it'd be bad for business.

One of the lead climatologists for NASA has come out to say that Bush forbade him to discuss global warming. That is why there is such widespread ignorance and "I just don't want to think about it" attitude in America.

Because it is REAL and it is HAPPENING. It is not some possible asteroid that might hit Earth in five billion years, it is not an earthquake that could or maybe not happen any second, it is not a nuclear attack. It is something that has been already happening since before any of us were born, and something which is still happening, and something which all of us have been contributing to our entire lives. The question is not if, when, or how. The question is what are you going to do about it?

Some people choose to continue only eating of paper plates, driving their SUV with one person in it, leaving all their lights on, taking hour long showers, mowing the lawn every day, etc. They aren't just killing themselves. They're killing all of us along with them.

Thanks for not flaming

I think part of the reason for the ignorance though (and once i get home tonight I'll look up the sources) is that some scientists don't believe that we're going through a global warming. Some believe that we're going through a global cooling. I think this was based on the earth was showing signs of temps and such like it did before it entered the its last Ice Age.

The whole Global cooling is still in controversy (obviously) but when you think about it, sure the winters are milder, but the summers aren't exactly hot.

I do agree it doesn't hurt to cut back though. recycle, drive cars with better fuel efficiency, use biodegradable products, etc.

Unless you live in Australia We have had our ten hottest years on record within the last 14 years.

In Perth, where I live, this summer has been, on average, 6 degrees hotter than last year. And other countries and cities in the world are feeling it, too.

Summers where you live many not be that hot, but I live in a country that is going through it's worst drought, ever. We have metres on our homes and if we go over our water allocation the police turn up and we are fined.

It's serious all right. And it scares the heck out of me.

Seee??? Theres that ignorance part (on my behalf)

The past 3 years here in Michigan, maybe 4 we've had colder summers. Which is good cause then we're not emitting as much A/C bad stuff to the air, but still...having to wear a sweater in June is still a bit ridiculous.

Today we're FINALLY dropping temps and winter will act like winter again.

Good article in our local paper today...

http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Sa...30643&path=&s=

well, some people say that we are still coming out of the last ice age.
This they know for sure is that the earth used to be alot warmer then what it is now. how much man has increased the rate, i dont know. But just so we know they say that mars, venus are also getting warmer.

it could be we are just in the process of getting back to where we are supposed to be.

It's not a controversy. It is fact, and just like there are some people who think the earth is flat there are some people who don't want to believe global warming is reality.

The point is not that the earth gets suddenly noticeably hotter or even anything about weather patterns we experience in our everyday lives.

Even a half a degree rise in the average temp of the planet is disastrous. What about the MASSIVE cracks in the polar ice sheets? Those are something that is completely unnatural, and completely caused by global warming, but not caused by any serious temperature change that we notice.

Keep in mind that much of the world's oxygen is created by microscopic plant forms living in the top of the ocean, who need water that is exactly as salty as it is now, and that ice caps are fresh water... suddenly the entire ecosystem of the ocean is in danger. And the oxygen supply with it. Also, it doesn't take all that much water to flood pretty much a majority of the major cities in the world.

I have heard the theory that this is just a natural rise in temperature. That may be true, if it weren't as marked and obvious and totally out of the range of normal.

Do some actual research, and find out what is actually happening to our planet. You should be scared, you should be motivated to do something, not wondering if it's actually true.

Oh i dont doubt that that the earth is getting warmer.
but why is mars getting warmer also? did we do mars also? i have been in some cities that the air was so bad you could not even put your car window down during the day. i would like to see the air cleaned up for no other reason then i dont have sit in a car with the windows up.

Now does anyone here remember being a kid in the 1970's? back then they said another ice age was coming. they had news shows about how far down the ice would come.

But really i would like to see effort all over to try and clean up the earth.
after all its not nice to leave a mess.

Bruce - that's all very true. You really do need to see An Inconvenient Truth, though, because it does address the reasonable argument that global warming is a natural phenomenon but that this time it's a man-made issue - it really is very convincing but not in a propagandist way. The movie is a documentary made from a powerpoint slide-show which has helped educate people about global warming for many years now. It's a must-see IMO - even if you don't think global warming is man made, because it explains all the great and easy things we can do to help our environment period, not just with regards to climate change.

You're dead right. I will have to paraphrase someone on a political forum that I am on, who explains this exactly the way I want to be able to explain it - he really hits the nail on the head:

Global warming is about climate, not weather. Weather is a local occurance during a limited time span. Climate is the general average weather over a larger area over a larger time frame. Things like decades and centuries. So the effects of global warming would show up with things like the ten hottest years on record globally all occurring in the last 14 years, the unnaturally fast melting of thousand year old glaciers and record levels of CO2 the last half billion years.

Eeexactly.

An Inconvenient Truth is on Pay Per View right now and at the video stores. I've been wanting to see it for a while and will probably do so tonight.