Money or sanity and happiness? (Nurses, please read)

godiva

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I have a dilemma. I've kept it quiet for a while, but I'm going to go for it and ask you guys what you think.

I have finished 4.5 years of pharmacy school and have only 1.5 yeas left. I left pharmacy school at one point because I thought I'd hate it, and prepared for nursing school instead (they have an accelerated program for people who already have bachelor's, which I already have in comparative religion). I then decided to go back to pharmacy because I have so much in student loans and I need to be able to afford to pay it back. Now, I'm having second thoughts again.

I was thinking about my clinical rotations/clerkships over break. I reflected on my experiences as a pharmacy intern. I honestly don't like the job. I basically just want the money, even though I find pharmacology itself incredibly interesting, the real life job of a retail pharmacist is rather monotonous and stressful. I could do clinical hospital, but that would require another two years of residencies. But, on the other hand, I'm so close to being done... and I hate not finishing what I started.

Then there's nursing... I could go into the academia rather easily, or be a practicing nurse in less than two years. There are lots more doors open to me academically and career-wise. I think I'd like being a nurse more than a pharmacist... but there's a couple things that bother me. For one, I wouldn't find it intellectually satisfying unless I went on to get a higher degree or specialty certification and taught or something. By this I just mean that I feel so over-educated and over-prepared to be a nurse... I've basically been through a form of medical school that focuses on drugs. Secondly, and probably playing more into my decision, nurses make about a third to a half of the salary as pharmacists.

Okay, so which would you choose if you were me? Do I pick more money (mainly to pay off loans more quickly, I have about $90K) and the satisfaction of finishing my PharmD, or long-term happiness and sanity?

Maybe some of the nurses on board can clue me in to the realities of being a nurse? My mom makes it sound like a fun job.
I know in reality it isn't quite that rosy. What makes you love your job? What really stresses you out?

Sorry for the long read... I have to decide in the next few days which I want to do. I'm leaning towards the RN, though... I know in the long run I'll be happier, but in the meantime, how do I pay off those loans?!
 

sandtigress

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If none of the nurses around share their stories, PM me and I can maybe talk to my parents - one who is a pharmacist and the other who is a nurse! But as far as basic advice goes - go where your heart is. All the money in the world won't make you happy, but if you love your job, you'll find a way to get by. Besides, its not like nursing pays badly, and if I've heard right, nurses are in high demand right now, so you're pretty likely to get a job. Best of luck!
 
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godiva

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Go ahead and talk to them anyway!
I'd love to hear what they say... I'd love to hear what anyone has to say, really! And thanks. I don't know what my gut is saying... my gut gets pretty wrenched when I think of paying off my student loans.
But I also feel like I'd be miserable as a pharmacist.
 

silentnate

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I'd go for a job as a pharmacist- you can have just as much contact with patients while advising over medication. imho nursing has always been underpaid considering the hours and some of the work involved
 

pat

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I can share what my experience was like. I went into nursing after obtaining a BA and focusing on a different path entirely (writing poetry). It was odd going back to get an associates (I wanted a degree but not another 4 year, wanted to get my rn and get working, so chose a 2 year degree/rn program).

I enjoyed most of my career because I went in knowing I wanted to work in a specialty area which I did love - ob, high risk ob where on my unit I would rotate between being a surgical scrub or circulating nurse, or being the charge nurse, or in the recovery room, or one of the nurses on the floor (10 birthing/labor rooms), or in the small antepartum area where we had 3 beds for watching patients, and 3 for moms needing closer care than they would get on the antepartum floor.

I liked who I worked with, what I could do for them, the autonomy of working night shift, and the money, but in the end, the stress of such a unit which was constantly exploding and short staffed (try laboring patients on stretchers near the unit elevator or the wash sinks, all rooms full and short 4-5 nurses), was enough for me to look for a non-hospital job.

I ended up leaving the profession entirely (only because I married and moved cross country and it gave me the opportunity to retire)...but I do miss it.

I would say choose what will make you the happiest in the long run. Nursing on an academic level I'm sure would be totally different, and there is working in research (I always thought I'd love working in the area of infertility, and would have tried to angle my way towards that specialty if I'd remained single and in nursing). Money, while the lack of it is a huge stress, just never has brought me happiness...that takes personal satisfaction and enjoyment in what one is doing.

Okay, the burned out rn is off her soapbox now ;-)
 

delilah_blue

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Well, I'm not a nurse yet, but I am in nursing school and I work as a nursing assistant on an OB unit. If I were you, I'd do the PharmD and at some point do the extra two years of education if that will give you more satisfying opportunities. The typical bedside nursing job is hectic and stressful and not very academic. If intellectual satisfaction is a top priority for you, then I think you will be looking at several more years of education no matter which field you choose - so I say go for the money! At the very least I would finish your PharmD, since you're so close, and if you truly hate the job then just do it long enough to pay off your loans and pay for nursing school in cash. Remember, just because you finish a degree doesn't mean you're locked into that career forever. JMHO, good luck with your decision.
 

clixpix

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Originally Posted by Godiva

For one, I wouldn't find it intellectually satisfying unless I went on to get a higher degree or specialty certification and taught or something. By this I just mean that I feel so over-educated and over-prepared to be a nurse...
Okay, I'm going to take a moment here to defend my profession. I found this statement to be enormously insulting. If you don't find nursing "intellectually satisfying", then by all means, don't do it. If you think that we nurses don't have to think on our feet, critically evaluate our patients, all the while satisfying them and their families, then you haven't really looked at nursing. If you find "intellectual satisfaction" only from the type of learning you've experienced in school, then perhaps you should be a pharmacist.


Originally Posted by Delilah_Blue

Well, I'm not a nurse yet, but I am in nursing school and I work as a nursing assistant on an OB unit. If I were you, I'd do the PharmD and at some point do the extra two years of education if that will give you more satisfying opportunities. The typical bedside nursing job is hectic and stressful and not very academic. If intellectual satisfaction is a top priority for you, then I think you will be looking at several more years of education no matter which field you choose - so I say go for the money!
If you don't find your work "very academic", maybe you're not doing it right. Nurses, good nurses, don't just go through the motions. They think, evaluate, diagnose.
 
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godiva

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Originally Posted by clixpix

Okay, I'm going to take a moment here to defend my profession. I found this statement to be enormously insulting. If you don't find nursing "intellectually satisfying", then by all means, don't do it. If you think that we nurses don't have to think on our feet, critically evaluate our patients, all the while satisfying them and their families, then you haven't really looked at nursing. If you find "intellectual satisfaction" only from the type of learning you've experienced in school, then perhaps you should be a pharmacist.
I had a feeling that would offend someone... I'm sorry. I guess I should make myself more clear... I don't find retail pharmacy very intellectually satisfying, either. I think the thinking on my feet would be a good thing. I just wonder if I will use what I've learned... maybe I should have said I would feel like I've been in school forever for nothing. Do you think I'd use my experience from pharmacy school to make me a better nurse? Or do you think I'd be starting from scratch, so to speak? I don't want to have all those years of school wasted... but I have a feeling that nursing is such a different kind of job with more diagnosing, more intuition involved, that my knowledge of drugs won't help me a bit.
Not only will I lose what I've learned in pharmacy school, I'll have a brain full of stuff that will be useless to me as a nurse. It's not because nurses don't use their brain, it's just because nurses use different kinds of knowledge than RPhs. I'm kind of a perfectionist. I feel like although pharmacy school over-prepares students to be retail pharmacists, I appreciate it in that at least I'm prepared. I've heard my mother lament and some of my friends who are nurses lament that they felt the BSN program didn't prepare them scientifically and practically for what they do. That scares me. They crunched down the BSN to 18 months... which is even worse! (By the way, that's a compliment! That just means the job is a lot more complicated and involved than the classes imply.).

It won't be "satisfying" to me if I feel I am underprepared in that sense, but overprepared in an area that is of no use to me. I will feel unbalanced. I hope that makes more sense.

This is part of why I started this thread... I don't know a lot about what nurses do on a day to day basis, and I want to learn more. All I know is when they call down to the hospital pharmacy with drug questions, or my friends that just graduated from nursing school... besides what my mom has told me (she did post-partum)... that's the only contact I've had. I want to learn!!
 
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godiva

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I just thought of something else I might have been thinking when I used that term "intellectually satisfying."

Now, I respect nurses a lot. My mother was one, and an excellent one. But it took years for her to get respect. I fear that if I am a nurse, I will be looked down upon by doctors, pharmacists, and other members of the healthcare team, when really, I'm on the frontlines, so to speak. I just see the way most people view nurses (so I see why you were naturally offended, clixpix... thinking I was in the same frame of mind).

Most people think nurses wipe butts and "follow orders" just as many people think most pharmacists only count pills.
I don't know if I can handle being looked down upon... I know to a large extent, I need to earn respect through experience. That's another huge difference between pharmacy and nursing... in nursing, your experience gets you respect, but in pharmacy, the fact you have the PharmD and are licensed gains you most of the respect you will get.

I don't mind earning respect, I just HATE being looked down upon, and it seems so many people needlessly look down upon nurses. How do you deal with it, guys? Are docs mean to you?
 

squirtle

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Originally Posted by Godiva

I fear that if I am a nurse, I will be looked down upon by doctors, pharmacists, and other members of the healthcare team, when really, I'm on the frontlines, so to speak. I just see the way most people view nurses (so I see why you were naturally offended, clixpix... thinking I was in the same frame of mind).

Most people think nurses wipe butts and "follow orders" just as many people think most pharmacists only count pills.
I don't know if I can handle being looked down upon... I know to a large extent, I need to earn respect through experience. That's another huge difference between pharmacy and nursing... in nursing, your experience gets you respect, but in pharmacy, the fact you have the PharmD and are licensed gains you most of the respect you will get.

I don't mind earning respect, I just HATE being looked down upon, and it seems so many people needlessly look down upon nurses. How do you deal with it, guys? Are docs mean to you?
Perhaps you shouldn't worry so much about what other people think about you. It seems silly to me to make a career choice on that basis.... But that's just my opinion.

I will be starting nursing school in May and couldn't be more excited about it. I feel that it will be a very rewarding career. I know it won't be easy, but the challenges and interaction with patients will make it well worth it.
 

halfpint

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Originally Posted by clixpix

Okay, I'm going to take a moment here to defend

If you don't find your work "very academic", maybe you're not doing it right. Nurses, good nurses, don't just go through the motions. They think, evaluate, diagnose.
Your Someone kelly that Loves there job and wants to do it right, I think that's wonderful
I am sure Nursing is a very hard job if you do it right.
I give you Credit for wanting to do it right, I know Nurses have more responsibilty then most Doctors do, and they work harder also.. Thanks for people like you
 
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godiva

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Maybe you're right. I can't be the only one that feels disheartened when looked down upon, though. There's just so much to think about... One minute, I'm sure I want to be a nurse, the next, I'm okay with the idea of "counting pills" my entire life, but only for the money. I feel guilty for being selfish.


The only thing that makes being a pharmacist attractive is the day-to-day interactions with patients. With nursing, there's so much more! There's that, and like someone else mentioned, helping to make a patient feel better... directly. That would give me a lot of satisfaction. And making interventions that as a pharmacist, I wouldn't get to do... and there's so many career options, too! There's hospital, hospice, long term care, clinical specialties, teaching patients how to do this and that, teaching at a college (which I wouldn't do until I was practicing a few years anyway) and so on... that excites me. I've never been the kind of person that wants to do the same thing my whole life career-wise.

What area do you want to practice in, squirtle? What attracted you to nursing?
 

gailuvscats

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I have a friend who worked in the medical book publishing field. She got sick of that and got a nursing degree. She never worked as a nurse one day in a hospital, but got a job conducting clinical trials for pharmaceutical companies. Her salary is around 80K a year, and she is just now starting her second year. She is very smart and has to know a lot of stuff about nursing and drugs. I would say with your rx backround and nursing degree, you would be very much in demand at a drug company doing clinical trials.
check it out, nursing on the floor is not the only thing that nurses do.
 
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godiva

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Oh wow! That is so cool! I would love to do that. We do have Eli Lilly around here, but it's so competitive, and you literally have to know someone in the company or already be published to get a job there.
 

valanhb

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I have a Bachelor's in Language Arts - basically a double major in all things related to English (Literature, Writing, Journalism, Drama, Linguistics). I was trained to be a teacher and was miserable as a teacher. Now I'm a glorified secretary. I could be miserable doing this too, since I'm definitely over trained and over educated for the base job that I do. I'm not always intellectually challenged doing what I do - I'm fully aware that I am capable of much more. But you know, I'm with a company that appreciates my abilities and work ethic, they appreciate my intelligence, they don't talk down to me at all (some of the people on the phone do, but jerks are everywhere in this world). I find ways to keep myself stimulated, and don't wait for someone to do it for me. In doing this, I have also proven myself tenfold to my employers.

What's the point of all of this since it's not remotely medically related? Three things. First, you can't know if you'll love or hate a job until you're there. I thought I would love teaching and it was horrible for me. Worst year and a half of my life. Second, you make what you will out of the job you have. You can be miserable at a dream job, or happy in a seemingly mundane job. Thirdly, a LOT depends on where you work, and who you work with. I've been happy and miserable doing the same thing, depending on the people I'm working with. One place appreciates me and encourages me to grow. The other took advantage of the same traits that make me valuable to my current company.
 

squirtle

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Originally Posted by Godiva

What area do you want to practice in, squirtle? What attracted you to nursing?
Well, it sounds so silly... but what originally made me want to be a nurse was the interaction with one who was giving me a shot as a child.
She made me laugh about it.
That idea was reiterated when I was older. I had my tonsils out (at 22) and was deathly afraid of the iv and the procedure. My nurse was amazing. She did so much to put me at ease and in turn some of my fears vanished. She was patient with me even though it took 10 minutes for me to relax enough to allow her to insert the iv. That situation provided so much inspiration for me in choosing my career path. I love the thought of making a difference in someones life at a time when they are feeling fear and anxiety otherwise. If I leave work at the end of the day having brought just one smile to a patients face I feel that it will make everything worth it.

In addition, I love feeling needed and I am sure I will feel more than needed as a nurse. I like the thought of being on my feet, (strange, I know) facing challenges, and knowing that each day will be different.

The hours, pay, and doors that are opened as far as career opportunities (nurses can do so many things, not just work in the hospital) sound great to me as well.

I know that there are people out there with the mind set that nurses only clean up after doctors, or "wipe butts" as you stated, but I don't think those people are in the majority. That is a very ignorant statement and I wouldn't let that affect my decision in any way if I were you
 
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godiva

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That's so cool you were inspired as child. I guess I've come across some very burned-out nurses in my experiences...

You guys are much stronger than I am, too.
But, I'm adaptable, I'm sure I would find a way to deal with it and appreciate the best things about nursing. I'm just trying to consider all the possible issues I may encounter to the best of my ability... I realize I sound so negative in this thread, but I'm just thinking aloud. This is a big decision for me.

Another thing that is making me consider nursing is that my religion profs and some of the pharmacy profs are certain I'd make an excellent nurse. Despite my floundering with words here in the thread, I'm actually a very friendly people-person, and I love to make people feel at ease too. I just don't know whether to trust them or not. The pharmacy profs say they know I'm a more holistically minded person (which doesn't fit into the pharmacy school paradigm), and that I'd be a well-rounded nurse, with more opportunities to express myself and more opportunities to change my career course. They said if I don't want to get a PhD and teach at a university (the other thing they thought I was well-suited for), that I should go into nursing. And I don't want to get a PhD and deal with the politics rampant in the ivory tower. I want to be done with school... soon.

I think I'm leaning towards nursing, but I still want to hear more about the day-to-day stuff you guys do. I'm in awe of the profession, and I want to learn more (and not from the university spokespeople that make it sound all oh-so-wonderful).
 

eilcon

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Both of my SIL's are nurses and, from what they've told me, have found they're work to be very rewarding. The money's not bad either.


One spent more than ten years working as an ER nurse and is now in the dialysis unit at the same hospital. She loved the challenge and variety of working in ER, but the pace and some of the things she saw got to her after a while. She likes working in dialysis, the hours are better and pace a little slower, but she misses the challenge of the ER.

My other SIL works in the cardiac intensive care unit at our local childrens' hospital. She loves working with the little ones and their families, but also finds it very emotionally draining. She's lost quite a few patients, including babies with heart problems, and has found that extremely difficult to deal with. She sticks it out, though, because she believes in what she's doing.

I think that's the key with any job. Good luck with your decision!
 

natalie_ca

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Originally Posted by Godiva

I have a dilemma. I've kept it quiet for a while, but I'm going to go for it and ask you guys what you think.

I have finished 4.5 years of pharmacy school and have only 1.5 yeas left. I left pharmacy school at one point because I thought I'd hate it, and prepared for nursing school instead (they have an accelerated program for people who already have bachelor's, which I already have in comparative religion). I then decided to go back to pharmacy because I have so much in student loans and I need to be able to afford to pay it back. Now, I'm having second thoughts again.

I was thinking about my clinical rotations/clerkships over break. I reflected on my experiences as a pharmacy intern. I honestly don't like the job. I basically just want the money, even though I find pharmacology itself incredibly interesting, the real life job of a retail pharmacist is rather monotonous and stressful. I could do clinical hospital, but that would require another two years of residencies. But, on the other hand, I'm so close to being done... and I hate not finishing what I started.

Then there's nursing... I could go into the academia rather easily, or be a practicing nurse in less than two years. There are lots more doors open to me academically and career-wise. I think I'd like being a nurse more than a pharmacist... but there's a couple things that bother me. For one, I wouldn't find it intellectually satisfying unless I went on to get a higher degree or specialty certification and taught or something. By this I just mean that I feel so over-educated and over-prepared to be a nurse... I've basically been through a form of medical school that focuses on drugs. Secondly, and probably playing more into my decision, nurses make about a third to a half of the salary as pharmacists.

Okay, so which would you choose if you were me? Do I pick more money (mainly to pay off loans more quickly, I have about $90K) and the satisfaction of finishing my PharmD, or long-term happiness and sanity?

Maybe some of the nurses on board can clue me in to the realities of being a nurse? My mom makes it sound like a fun job.
I know in reality it isn't quite that rosy. What makes you love your job? What really stresses you out?

Sorry for the long read... I have to decide in the next few days which I want to do. I'm leaning towards the RN, though... I know in the long run I'll be happier, but in the meantime, how do I pay off those loans?!
Nursing is NOT a fun job! The harsh realities are:

1. You deal with crabby sick people and their neurotic familes;

2. You get to watch helplessly while terminal people die on your shift, or go into cardiac arrest unexpectly and die despite rescue efforts;

3. You get to clean up dead bodies so that they are presentable for viewing by the family. Then you get to wrap the body in plastic and take it to the morgue;

4. You get puked on, crapped on, pee'd on;

5. You will have your fingers in every body oriface at one time or another;

6. You get to stick tubes up people noses, or down people's throats;

7. You run up and down long hallways trying divide your time and to look after between 6 and 20 patients in an 8 hour shift, only to realize that at the end of your shift, some of your patient's are lucky if you saw them more than once;

8. You get to be yelled at and treated like a moron by some doctors who think that nurses are nothing but pill pushers.

9. You get to work shift work of days, evenings and nights.

10. You get to help patients to a commode chair and/or bathroom and/or bedpan and then wipe their butts.

11. You are lifting and/or turning patients numerous times in your shift, and are high risk for back injuries and other related injuries.

12. Nursing is an incredibly high stress job

13. Sometimes you are so busy with crisis managment with your patients that you don't even have time to stop and take a break or even go to the bathroom. There are times I've worked an 8 hours shift and realized that my bladder was about to burst because I hadn't had time to go and pee.

Not to mention that the pay for all of that responsibility is not great.


Rewards from being a nurse?

1. The demand for nurses is world wide and gives you the chance to go anywhere in the world that you want to go.

2. Sometimes you get to see a very very sick person who had no chance of recovery get well and go home.


As a pharamacist where I live, they make upwards of $75,000.00 per year, and their responsibilities are no where close to being those of a nurse. Plus the working environment is better, and so are the hours.

If I hadn't waited so long to go back to school, I would have picked something else to do. Nursing wasn't my number one choice, but it met my criteria of 2 years, money, and mobility. Dental Hygenists actually make more money than nurses do and all they do is look in your mouth all day and clean your teeth.

The choice is ultimately yours, but if it were me and I had already started Pharmacy I would continue especially being so far into the program.

It's normal to second guess after being in school for so long, but you went into pharmacy for a reason, find that reason again and keep with it.
 

lunasmom

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I'm not a nurse and I do not know of any.

However, your case is like most people who attend a University. I have a friend who was about to embark on her thesis for her masters in engineering...had straight A's and everything. Then up and walked away from her masters. Ten years later she finally got herself together and went back for her masters in teaching 2nd ed Physics and Chemistry.

She loves everyday minute of it and wouldn't trade teaching for the world.

Ultimitely your initial career is what you can see yourself doing for a long time. Plus if you do decide on the nursing career, consider if the happiness and sanity will be included in the amount you will owe in loans.

My advice would be to go for the field you want to be in. If you have to attend school longer (which really honestly consider this if the hospital pharmacy program takes another 2 years, how will that be shorter than going back to nursing school?) Your wait to get into Nursing school may equal that amount (in could be different in your area, but in michigan there is about a year wait to get into the nursing programs here).

Also, when you compare real life with internship, really the interns do get the crap jobs. Once you graduate being a newbie in the field is TONS better then being an intern.
 
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