Money or sanity and happiness? (Nurses, please read)

godiva · Jan 3, 2007

Well, in a hospital pharmacy, interns do get stuck doing crap jobs. But I was around enough to know what hospital staff pharmacists do. In retail, interns are given a lot of responsibility. We have to be licensed and everything. We work side by side with the pharmacists... counsel patients, call docs when something is wrong, and call insurance companies just as the pharmacists do. I feel like I have a pretty good idea of what being a retail pharmacist is like... and I don't like it a whole lot.

The BSN is normally a 4 year track, but because I have a bachelor's, I can apply to the accelerated program and finish in 18 months. I would start this summer. I've talked to the people at the university I want to attend, and there isn't a wait for the accelerated program. My GPA is more than high enough to get in (at least the way they count it... they don't look at my pharmacy GPA

), so she was pretty confident that I'd be accepted, unless 150 students with 4.0 GPAs come in before me. There are an abundance of nursing schools in Indianapolis... it's very competitive, but it's not as bad as in some other areas.

I have 1.5 years of the regular PharmD curriculum left (including clerkships). It would be another 2 years on top of that if I wanted to do something more interesting. So, really, it's about the same... I'd be done with pharmacy a little sooner, but it would just be the six-year degree with no clinical residencies or certifications beyond what is required for the PharmD. With nursing, I'd be in a little longer (two semesters I think), but considering how long it takes to wait and take the NAPLEX (pharmacy boards), it might end up being the same. I hear it's easier to get a slot for the nursing boards than the NAPLEX.

I'm not sure why I entered pharmacy to begin with... I was good in chemistry, and I wanted to make enough money to travel and be comfortable. My dad died of cancer when I was younger, and I was under the mistaken impression that getting a PharmD would prepare me to enter research... it was true when I started, but the laws have changed now and a "mere" Doctor of Pharmacy is no longer good enough for the drug companies... since the B.S. in pharmacy was done away with, all pharmacists are educated at this level now.

I see myself happier, more emotionally fulfilled as a nurse. But there's always money... I want to travel. I want to have the financial freedom to help people and not worry about my bills at the same time.

Thanks for your responses, guys... I'd love to hear more about your experiences.

gailuvscats · Jan 3, 2007

[QUOTEOh wow! That is so cool! I would love to do that. We do have Eli Lilly around here, but it's so competitive, and you literally have to know someone in the company or already be published to get a job there.][/quote]

well, then you better get on it. Get the degree, and while you are doing that start hanging around eli lily. In fact see if you can go see the HR people now in the interest of learning more about the company and what they look for in a new employee. Find out if there are any internship programs offered. Hang out in the restaurants/bar/clubs close to the company at 5 pm with the hopes of meeting someone who works there. Get a parttime job close by, or better yet there, be it mailroom or whatever. Network your butt off.
You can do it while you get your degree. You might manage to have a job waiting for you.

Other jobs for nurses are working at the center of disease control and advisors for residential program providers. There is more than working shifts in a hospital.

And I don't know what it is like where you live, but around here nurses make a hell of a lot of money.

sneakymom · Jan 3, 2007

I'm not a nurse- yet. I've been taking courses for what seems FOREVER to get into a nursing program. I'm 1 science course and a math course away from being able to get into a program at a community college.

I'm also looking at an accelerated BSN also, I have a BS in Psychology. I figure I'll apply to both schools- though I can't apply to the BSN program until I finish even MORE prerequisites (sociology and chemistry) and then see what I get from there. A couple of nurses have told me that with the Psych degree and a BSN, there are a lot of things that I could do.

As for what to do? This is my story. I went to school for teaching. I got into student teaching and HATED it. I was 1 year away from graduating, and I changed my major to Psych b/c I couldn't see myself in a classroom 8hrs a day. Love kids- just don't love the idea of having to teach them.

Healthcare was always in the back of my mind. I bombed my first biology class in college, but it was freshman year and I was more interested in the social life than studying

swampwitch · Jan 3, 2007

My advice is to finish what you started and become a pharmacist. Try it out for a few years, and save some money.

Nursing may not be as great as you think, and making one-third the salary as you could have will make nursing even harder and less rewarding.

Cheers, from
SwampWitch

godiva · Jan 3, 2007

Originally Posted by gailuvscats

[QUOTEOh wow! That is so cool! I would love to do that. We do have Eli Lilly around here, but it's so competitive, and you literally have to know someone in the company or already be published to get a job there.]

well, then you better get on it. Get the degree, and while you are doing that start hanging around eli lily. In fact see if you can go see the HR people now in the interest of learning more about the company and what they look for in a new employee. Find out if there are any internship programs offered. Hang out in the restaurants/bar/clubs close to the company at 5 pm with the hopes of meeting someone who works there. Get a parttime job close by, or better yet there, be it mailroom or whatever. Network your butt off.
You can do it while you get your degree. You might manage to have a job waiting for you.

Other jobs for nurses are working at the center of disease control and advisors for residential program providers. There is more than working shifts in a hospital.

And I don't know what it is like where you live, but around here nurses make a hell of a lot of money.

[/quote]

Great advice!! Thanks!

Nurses don't make bad money around here, but pharmacists make double that (depending on practice setting). I'm sure nurse anesthetists and positions like your friend have throw off the averages you see on salary.com and such. According to my mom and friends who are practicing nurses and pharmacists, the majority nursing positions make about 45K (in the 30s for newbies), and most pharmacist positions make more than 80K around here... in the low 100s if you work for a large chain like CVS or Walgreens.

Not bad money at all, really... but I do know that nearly all my money will go towards paying off loans for five years or so, whereas in pharmacy, I can get rid of that debt in much less time and still have money to establish myself with. I am married, so that makes things less urgent, but he doesn't make a lot since he's in journalism/PR.

I really want to pay off my loans, but I know I don't like practicing in the retail setting. It's way too monotonous and there's not enough variety in my workday. Even my 4-6 hour intern shifts seemed like an eternity if the place I was working wasn't busy, and if it was busy, I came home feeling like I had lost my mind. I honestly hated it. Some people can do something they aren't passionate about as long as they are well-compensated, but I'm not one of those people. I want to have a balance of making decent money and somewhat liking my job (or at least being fulfilled by it). I wouldn't say I have an ethical problem with the drug companies, but I really felt that as a pharmacist, I was just a cog in the wheel... whereas in nursing, I think there are more opportunities for me to make a difference.

Okay, I'll shut up. Obviously, I have no idea what I really think yet.

I need to hear more of your guys' wisdom and experience!

godiva · Jan 3, 2007

One thing I forgot to add... I bet some of you are wondering how a job like pharmacy could stress you out. Well, in a busy store like a big chain, you are simultaneously on the phone, talking with a patient (or being yelled at by a patient), and checking a prescription at the same time. The pressure to not make an error is immense. You are standing in the same room for your whole shift, with no breaks, and if you are the pharmacist, you rarely leave the checking station unless a patient really needs help in the aisles. There's not time to do the job right. You don't think on your feet, you are like an automaton robot... just checking, calling insurance companies, other pharmacies, and docs, answering questions, over and over and over again... usually the same questions and issues come up again and again.

I am a waitress now... and I realized that I mentally, I do much better because I am able to move around, and I can think on my feet. Each day is different, even though I work with roughly the same things... I think the people make the difference. I get to interact more with my customers than I did in pharmacy. This is really what made me think I would enjoy nursing more.

I understand that nursing is extremely stressful too... but I think it's stressful in a way I can handle better. I am my mother's daughter, and she loved nursing, and never had a complaint about it! I can't help but think that my professors and mother are right in telling me I'd be halfway decent at it.

jadedlaw · Jan 3, 2007

Having recently graduated from law school, I understand your concern about paying off student loans (I graduated with about $150K student loans). I can also identify with your indecision about your career. I started undergrad with a premed/bio sci major b/c my parents' dream was for me to become a doctor and b/c I enjoyed science in high school. However, once I started university and taking all those science classes, I realized this was not the path for me. By the time I became brave enough (and desperate enough) to disappoint the parents, I felt I had wasted 2 years and all those science classes if I switched to another major.

Today, I've graduated from law school and recently passed the bar, but faced with the knowledge that I will be in debt for many many many years to come. But I do enjoy the work that I do. And I guess that is key.

The only way to get a sense of whether or not you're going to enjoy the work of your chosen profession is to be exposed to it. If you're not enjoying your internship, I think that's a good indication you're not going to enjoy being a pharmacist, unless there are other career options with your pharmacy degree.

Keep in mind that if you decide to continue w/ pharmacy school only b/c you don't want to waste the $90K spent on your education thus far and the 4.5 years already spent, if you complete your pharmacy degree and work in a career that you hate, think about all the years and energy you will have wasted when you realize later on that you cannot continue to be miserable in a career you hate. In other words, if you really are not enjoying what you're doing for your internship, and you don't think you want to be a pharmacist (assuming that is your only career option with that degree), I'd cut my losses now rather than later.

jadedlaw · Jan 3, 2007

Originally Posted by Godiva

I fear that if I am a nurse, I will be looked down upon by doctors, pharmacists, and other members of the healthcare team, when really, I'm on the frontlines, so to speak. I just see the way most people view nurses (so I see why you were naturally offended, clixpix... thinking I was in the same frame of mind).

Most people think nurses wipe butts and "follow orders" just as many people think most pharmacists only count pills.

I don't know if I can handle being looked down upon... I know to a large extent, I need to earn respect through experience. That's another huge difference between pharmacy and nursing... in nursing, your experience gets you respect, but in pharmacy, the fact you have the PharmD and are licensed gains you most of the respect you will get.

I don't mind earning respect, I just HATE being looked down upon, and it seems so many people needlessly look down upon nurses. How do you deal with it, guys? Are docs mean to you?

You seem very concerned about having other's respect and being important. Again, I can identify. Currently where I am in my career, I bust my butt, but someone else takes the credit for my work. *shrug* Most days, I have to remind myself not to let it get me down, I am just paying my dues for the experience I am gaining. On top of that, I am an asian woman, in a profession dominated by old white men, so I struggle, and work twice as hard, just to be treated equal to my male counterparts.

I recently read a quote by William James, "The deepest principle in human nature is the craving to be appreciated." But as you've already suggested, respect, the real kind, is earned, and not something that comes with a job title. If you're a doctor, or a senior partner at a law firm, but you're a jackass, how much respect do you really have?

gailuvscats · Jan 4, 2007

If you're not enjoying your internship, I think that's a good indication you're not going to enjoy being a pharmacist, unless there are other career options with your pharmacy degree.

I agree with the above. Do some research and see what other work is out there for a pharmacist besides retail. They must have jobs in drug companies and elsewhere.

Bottom line is if you don't like the job, and I can understand why, I've waited for my rx to be filled, I see what they are doing, and I can't believe they make that much money! That is not to start is it?
Anyway if you are not going to like it DON'T do it. Don't worry about paying off the loans, you will get them done, worry about what you will be happy doing 8 hours a day.

lunasmom · Jan 4, 2007

Keep in mind too, no matter which job you go into, there is pretty much a level of customer service that you have to.

I remember being in retail during college just WANTING a business position so that I could get away from having to deal with customer service.

Yep, nope...I'm labeled as a manager right now, but I still have to do computer support (just another fancy term for customer service) to the employees here.

I think you've already pretty much made your mind up about what you want to do, but keep in mind the yelling, complaining customers that you have at the pharmacy really begin in the doctor's office or hospital.

Also, could you volunteer at your local hospital in the meantime? Or do you have any friends that work in nursing that you could "shadow" for a day or two just to get the feel for the reality?

godiva · Jan 4, 2007

gailuvscats;1499422}I've waited for my rx to be filled said:
I know it's hard to believe, but yes... they do make that much money. I have a friend who just signed on with CVS for 105K a year plus a sign-on bonus. There is even a bigger shortage of pharmacists than there are nurses, and it is a six-year degree. They are compensated well.

As I said, I feel like I'd be over-prepared to be a retail pharmacist, but that is where the money is. Clinical positions, drug company positions, etc... all pay less and require more education... either formal or in the form of a residency.

I don't mind providing good customer service... I'm actually quite good at it (You must be thinking of that one thread not too long ago

). That is part of retail that I like and can handle fairly well. It's the doing the same thing over and over again, and standing in basically the same spot all day, that drives me crazy. I'm not well-suited to standing in one place and checking my technician's work for 8 straight hours... and calling doctors when they make a mistake, or calling insurance companies when there's a problem....

Thanks for your replies, guys... I really appreciate it. I just wish my bachelor's could help me out here... but really, there's nothing I can do with that without more school. I have criteria much like another poster said... 2 years more or less, make decent money, like what I do.

If anyone has any other ideas, I'm all ears!

esrgirl · Jan 4, 2007

Don't get into something just because of the money. Do you really want to spend the next 30 years of your life doing something you don't like? Nurses get paid pretty well around here. Making 50k may not be as much as the 90k that pharmacists make around here- but it is a heck of a lot better than what most people make in this area. If you move to the Southwest you could easily be looking at 90k or more as a flight nurse. Nurse practitioners do very well, as do travelling nurses. Teaching, research, case management, administration, direct care, prescribing medicines- all of these things are in high demand. There are so many types of nursing- nurse anaesthetist is another interesting field that involves medication. You could look at Physician Assistance too. They make good money and have a very interesting job.

yosemite · Jan 4, 2007

The only advice I have to offer is this - whatever you decide to do, ask yourself if it makes you happy enough to get up every morning for the rest of your life and do that job.

As for nurses, my SIL is a geriatric nurse and she truly loves those old people. One time she had to call a doctor in to pronounce the time of death and when she moved this dear old person, she let her arm slip and immediately said "Sorry, dear". The doctor said if she was that way with them when they had passed, how must she treat them when they were alive. She gives nurses a good name. I also want to say that when my mom was in palliative care a couple years ago, the nurses that cared for her were wonderful. They made it easier for her and also for us. They spoke to us each time we visited to update us on her condition. One of them would stay and listen to mom's ramblings in the wee hours of the morning and told us that mom just wanted to get a lot of things out before going home to her maker and just needed someone to listen. When mom passed, we sent a gift basket to the nurses station and thanked them for being so kind.

We've never forgotten those wonderful women and just last evening when we had occasion to visit emergency with DH, he said, "Do you remember when your mom was here and how great they were with her?".

If you have that kind of heart, we would be gaining a true gem in the nursing profession and whoever was in your care would be blessed to have you.

There are many rewards other than money. A good feeling in your heart of a job well done has no set value - it is priceless.

Money or sanity and happiness? (Nurses, please read)

godiva

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gailuvscats

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godiva

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jadedlaw

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