Former fighting pit bulls and cats

Two of my kittens (now six months) went to a home that has a dog. This dog is fine with the kittens, and she sleeps with them and grooms them. However, the owner just adopted a former fighting pit bull stray. A local rescue organization is going to get him trained and neutered for her, but I am still really worried about the kittens. She hasn't let the kittens around the dog and says she won't until he's trained and such... but is it even possible to train a former fighting dog to be nice to cats, especially when the dog used to kill neighborhood cats? He's still under a year old. Anyone have any experience with this kind of thing?

Originally Posted by Godiva

especially when the dog used to kill neighborhood cats?

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I think that's your answer right there. Unfortunately, this particular dog clearly has a very strong prey drive, and I believe it's a really bad idea to try & add it to a household with cats. Honestly, I'd be reluctant to add it to a household with any other dogs, either.

Good training can accomplish a lot, but with this dog you're not only going against generations of careful breeding to create the most efficient fighting and killing dog, but you're dealing with a dog with an established behavior pattern of fighting and killing other animals from a very young age. Most dogs don't fully mature into their adult personalities until about two years of age - if this dog is already a killer before it's even a year old, it's probably best that it be an only pet.

Thanks... that is what I feared. I'm trying to figure out how to tell her it's not a great idea. I already told her I wouldn't risk it and asked her what she'd do if it doesn't work out, she said she didn't know... Ugh! Perhaps the rescue organization will advise her properly, and their word is better than mine (the overprotective former owner).

At least the kittens are fixed now and are well taken care of otherwise... \\

Oh no... this is not right. Im going to tell you I am the biggest pit bull lover you will find anywhere, but even I will not deny that this is a disaster waiting to happen. This dog cannot be trusted around these cats, or even the other dog.

He has already been a fighter and it will be near impossible for him to coexist peacefully with another dog, and much more impossible for him to get along with the cats, especially when cats are frequently used as bait for fighters.

Did you set up a contract with this lady when she adopted the kittens? I'd get them out of this house as soon as possible.

But on the other hand, I think if the rescue let him go, he must have some possibility. Maybe HE was a bait dog? Still, it doesnt seem right. These dogs shouldnt be adopted out because one small incident is all it takes for the reputation of this lovely creature to be forever ruined.

I had a verbal contract, but unfortunately, I didn't think to ask if they were going to add other dogs to the family. I figured the wolf hybrid they have was a handful and that they wouldn't think of adding another. She knows I would take them back in a heartbeat if things don't work out... I've reminded her.

On a good note, her grandson named the kittens and considers them his. Her daughter-in-law is building a new house and may take the kittens then anyway. Unfortunately, she plans on declawing them... she's one of my best friends, and I've begged her not to... at least she says they'll be indoor only and she has the money to have the laser surgery done instead. She has no other pets and doesn't plan on getting other pets.

Looking back, I should have been pickier and asked more specific questions. I asked about getting them fixed, declawing, access to outdoors, vet care, and asked for updates... but my husband was not happy with how slowly the adoption process was taking, so I homed them with the most reasonable people I could find. At least I am able to keep tabs on them since I know all the owners who took them.

For the kitties's sake, I would stress that perhaps the kitties go to another home, or if you wanted to, tell her that you will take them back.

I would NOT want a pit bull that has fought anywhere near my kitties. They can train them all the want, but when instinct kicks in, usually it is "good-bye" kitty.

Perhaps you could email or print this article for her?
http://www.realpitbull.com/pitsnpets.html

If she insists that she wants this dog, I agree it's a good idea to take the kittens back or talk her into rehoming them. And if the daughter-in-law wants them, she should give him the kittens and leave the issue of declawing up to him - he might want to keep his kitties whole.

It really sounds like they might be better off elsewhere if she wants this dog -someone who would add a fighting pit bull with a history of cat killing to a house with a wolf hybrid and declawed kittens doesn't seem to be thinking about the best interests of the animals involved.

Good luck!

Thanks for the article. I will definitely e-mail it to her. She doesn't want to declaw him, her daughter-in-law does. My babies!! If she does it, at least it will be the laser surgery... they are from small towns in the boonies, so they just view animals differently than I do even though they live in the city now. The wolf hybrid the current owner has is so shy she won't even sit in the same room with other people... she prefers to sleep with the kittens. So frustrating... again, thanks for the article.

Originally Posted by Godiva

Thanks for the article. I will definitely e-mail it to her. She doesn't want to declaw him, her daughter-in-law does.

My babies!! If she does it, at least it will be the laser surgery... they are from small towns in the boonies, so they just view animals differently than I do even though they live in the city now.

The wolf hybrid the current owner has is so shy she won't even sit in the same room with other people... she prefers to sleep with the kittens. So frustrating... again, thanks for the article.

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make sure you also send an article that tells specifically what problems can come up later with declawed cats. Litterbox issues, behavioral issues, biting... I don't care if it is laser declawing or not, it is still removing a part of their body that was put on them for a reason.

Originally Posted by Godiva

I had a verbal contract, but unfortunately, I didn't think to ask if they were going to add other dogs to the family. I figured the wolf hybrid they have was a handful and that they wouldn't think of adding another.

She knows I would take them back in a heartbeat if things don't work out... I've reminded her.

On a good note, her grandson named the kittens and considers them his. Her daughter-in-law is building a new house and may take the kittens then anyway. Unfortunately, she plans on declawing them... she's one of my best friends, and I've begged her not to... at least she says they'll be indoor only and she has the money to have the laser surgery done instead. She has no other pets and doesn't plan on getting other pets.

Looking back, I should have been pickier and asked more specific questions. I asked about getting them fixed, declawing, access to outdoors, vet care, and asked for updates... but my husband was not happy with how slowly the adoption process was taking, so I homed them with the most reasonable people I could find. At least I am able to keep tabs on them since I know all the owners who took them.

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I find verbal contracts aren't worth the breath it took for a person to say what you want to hear. As far as i'm concerned people are only as good as their word, and the way I see it, most people wouldn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to that I have WRITTEN contracts with all my kittens, and I won't allow de-calwing at all! I have never allowed any cat or kitten to go with out contracts, even to friends (who seem to be the worst any way ) I know better, and like an idiot I sold my horse to a woman who seemed to be perfect for him, with the agreement that I had first chance to buy him back if she no longer wanted him, well know that she has him, she is a rotten b..... She told me flat out, she would never sell him back to me, after all the work and money she has "invested" she wouldn't let me let him get back in the condition he was when I sold him to her (mind you the horse she only had for 2 months, I had him for 2 years, I got him from an action and he could barely walk from bad abcesses in all 4 feet, he was about 250 pounds under wieght and lost most of his hair from rainrott. I had all his feet doing well but one, and got rid of the rott, and put over 200 pounds on him, the way I see it is all see had to do was put a few more pounds on him and finish what I already mostly did for her. Now she treats me like I put him in that condition and I wont see him again, all because I had a verball agreement.

As far as the dog, I can't imagine the rescue placing him in a home with cats if they didn't feel he could be fine with them. I think alot of the responses are based more on baists against the breed. I think with time and training he will be fine with them. I had a GSD that would try to kill my cat out side and case them like crazy, but in the house they were fine together. After I finally got him trained not to chase, I worked with her out side not to chase and evetually she wouldn't chase any more. It takes alot of work and patience, if they aren't willing to do it, one or the other shouldn't be in the home. (cats in a new home or back to you, or the dog find another home with time to train PROPERLY. There are no quick fixes or short cuts when it comes to this, it will have to be done the right way!
Good luck I hope they get every thing worked out and cats can keep their toes.

Originally Posted by Jen

make sure you also send an article that tells specifically what problems can come up later with declawed cats. Litterbox issues, behavioral issues, biting... I don't care if it is laser declawing or not, it is still removing a part of their body that was put on them for a reason.

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Laser declaws are supposed to heal quicker, aren't they? I thought I have read some where they can have more problems come up with the leaser, am i wrong, or read wrong? Not that it really matters, they shouldn't be declawed, period! But I was just curious.

If the dog is a stray how do they know if it was actually used for fighting opposed to being a bait dog or something else?
I am just wondering if there is more to it. Most shelters I know wouldnâ€[emoji]8482[/emoji]t adopt out a dog they thought had been trained to fight and were very strict about not adopting to homes with other animals if they felt it was putting them in danger.

Let me say that I didn't mean to stir up trouble here... I love dogs, and I think the breed gets a bad rap, when it is the people that should be punished. Also, I am against declawing and don't do it myself, but if it means they get away from an unsafe situation, I would rather have that than be with a dog that might kill them. I just don't know which is the better choice until I know more about how the dog's training goes.

Here's how I think the adoption of the dog went... it was a stray in their neighborhood. She took the dog in on her own accord (she did not get it from the organization). I think she called an organization that was willing to help her... she may not have told them she has cats... that's why I'm not sure about it all. She says he was a "fighting dog" and says he has scars on his face, but I couldn't get close enough to him to see because he was growling and barking at me through the window!

Just keep your fingers crossed for me... I might try calling the rescue myself and see if they know she has cats. Thanks everyone for your advice!

Originally Posted by Godiva

but I couldn't get close enough to him to see because he was growling and barking at me through the window!

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This is not typical APBT behavior and if you are going to call the rescue about the cats I would definatley let them know about this as well. An ABPT is not supposed to show agression towards humans and needs to be dealt with by an experienced handler if it has.

Eek!! That's good to know... thanks for the info!!

Originally Posted by dogsdirtbike24

This is not typical APBT behavior and if you are going to call the rescue about the cats I would definatley let them know about this as well. An ABPT is not supposed to show agression towards humans and needs to be dealt with by an experienced handler if it has.

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Come look into my windows (car or house) and any of my dogs will show you what behaviour they should have. I don't want a dog that would be aggressive and just bite some body, but if some stranger is peeking in my window I would expect some barking and growling to let that person know to move it along, My dogs have always been protective (not agressive) by barking and growling when some one they don't know is looking in a window. They are dogs, that how they tell some one they don't belong in their territory, they can't just say, "Hey get out of my yard and get out of my face" Even though mine have always been wimps, LOL! they sounded like they would bite if you came any closer, although if some one had, they would have just hid under the table

The rescue group can put this dog thru all the training in the world and it will do the new owner no good unless they (the new owner) have gained complete and total control over the dog. I absolutely adore dogs and have no issues with pitbulls, but if this person doesn't know how to do the training themselves, it isn't going to work out.

I had a greyhound that liked to chase down feral cats that would run from him. Since I was always with him when he was outside, I always stopped him when he started chasing. One time I was distracted and he caught one. In a split second he broke the poor baby's spine. It was a bad way to learn a very hard lesson, and I had to use the death of a cat to show him in no uncertain terms that it was unacceptable (I banned him from his pack for 10 days and he never chased a cat again).

The big lesson: you cannot ever let down your guard when you are dealing with a dog that has been bred or trained to kill other animals. You must have total authority (alpha rule) over the dog without any question. I thought I had it with my greyhound but realized too late that I did not.

I confirmed my approach of banning the grey with Jan Fennell, the Dog Listener earlier this year. If your friend wants to adopt this dog, they need to educate themselves very quickly on how to maintain alpha role over this dog. I highly recommend any of Jan's books, starting with The Dog Listener.

APBTs are not, as a breed, protective. Individual tempermants may vary but protectiveness is not a breed charateristic. This is a breed that has been bred to be dog agressive but should show no agressive tendancies towards humans. They are not a dog that would be expected to protect a human or propety in a dangerous situation, it is not a GSD.

I would expect barking if the poster was peeking in a window, but growing or posturing of any sort needs to be evaluated by a professional or at least someone fmiliar with the breed especially if the dog has an unknown history. No one knows if it was trained by the original owner to "guard" and the rescue group would be the best resource to evaluate what level of agression (if any) the dog is showing. The dog might have been wagging its tail the whole time, but I doubt the OP was in a postition to tell. It is better to err on the side of caution than to write it off as normal especially if the owner is a bully novice. The last thing the breed needs right now is another owner who doesnt have a clue about their dog. JMHO

Just to be more clear, I was inside the house and the dog barked and growled at me from outside, where he was chained up. I peeked outside through the large window and looked at him. He'd only been at the new house for a week.

Does that change anything?

Originally Posted by Momofmany

The rescue group can put this dog thru all the training in the world and it will do the new owner no good unless they (the new owner) have gained complete and total control over the dog. I absolutely adore dogs and have no issues with pitbulls, but if this person doesn't know how to do the training themselves, it isn't going to work out.

I had a greyhound that liked to chase down feral cats that would run from him. Since I was always with him when he was outside, I always stopped him when he started chasing. One time I was distracted and he caught one. In a split second he broke the poor baby's spine. It was a bad way to learn a very hard lesson, and I had to use the death of a cat to show him in no uncertain terms that it was unacceptable (I banned him from his pack for 10 days and he never chased a cat again).

The big lesson: you cannot ever let down your guard when you are dealing with a dog that has been bred or trained to kill other animals. You must have total authority (alpha rule) over the dog without any question. I thought I had it with my greyhound but realized too late that I did not.

I confirmed my approach of banning the grey with Jan Fennell, the Dog Listener earlier this year. If your friend wants to adopt this dog, they need to educate themselves very quickly on how to maintain alpha role over this dog. I highly recommend any of Jan's books, starting with The Dog Listener.

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I agree, that is what I was saying in my post, if the new owners can't or wont do it right, they shouldn't take that dog. It is a lot of work.

Originally Posted by dogsdirtbike24

APBTs it is not a GSD.

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Thanks for clearing that up for me.