By Request - New Charlie Pics (with Keno)

Wow! I see a BIG difference in the 'tone' of the first cat and the second cat. They are both classified as 'chocolate'? They look like they should be in two separate color classes! Which is preferred? Which would do better in a show for the 'overall package'? Though the second cat is 'hotter' the first cat has much better clarity in his spotting (IMO).

You said Charlie has a reddish undercoat in his spots. Does that come out looking like 'rosettes'? Like the cat in the first pic, some of his larger spots look like they are 'two-toned'. Is that a part of the standard? Is it something that breeders select for?

They are all beautiful, btw. I like Charlies 1/2 brother best though (second to Charlie, of course! )

Stradavarious has almost perfect spotting IMO (and since he got Best Kitten nationally and Best Cat/Kitten Regional last year, judges must think so )

We would have liked a little more reddish undertones in the body color - not the spotting. The spotting should be solid - not a rosette. And you should have a hint of a bullseye pattern with the spotting - not a clear one - cause of the classic tabby americans that were used for the silver color.

Chocolate ranges from lighter chocolate to the red chocolate - I don't think there is a preference. I've seen pics of grands and they vary, so none are really preferred. Color/contrast is more important - the spotting should be clear at any point and you dont' want the spotting to be like a "broken" mackeral pattern. That's a fault. Some of Charlies spots did blend together earlier (that's what made him a pet); but as he is growing the spotting broke up so he's better for showing. I'm not keen on ear set - seems to be a bit close IMO but that might change as he gets older - I'm taking the breeder's word that he's more show quality now (since she evaluates kittens more then me).

I have studied the standard and can do a comparison of Charlie to the standard Plus I've done a ton of looking at other breeder's cats/kittens and looking especially at the grands

Millwood Tory of Delhi is the cat that supplied the "glitter" to the bengal breed.
Tory was a tabby with spots all over and had a shiny golden-orange coat, but he had no documented ancestry. CFA registered him as a transfer MAU from ACA.

Some E. Mau breeders used his fresh "Indian Mau" blood to help their inbred lines...so yes...his glitter genes ended up in the E. Mau lines.

I don't know that it is being bred for in the Mau's though. I don't see them at shows enough to say if if any of them are glittered.

The majority of bengals are glittered. Either extensively or moderately.

In some ways I'm wondering if this "mau" really was what we consider an egyptian mau - because the few that I've seen (silver/bronze) had NO glitter at all and no one has ever mentioned it. This might have been a different cat and some of these cats ended up in some mau lines.

This is CFA's color description in the standard.

BRONZE: warm bronze ground color across head, shoulders, outer legs, back, and tail, being darkest on the saddle and lightening to a tawny-buff on the sides. Underside fades to a creamy ivory. All markings dark brown-black with a warm brown undercoat, showing good contrast against the lighter ground color. Back of ears tawny-pink and tipped in dark brown-black. Nose, lips, and eyes outlined in dark brown, with bridge of nose brown. Upper throat area, chin, and around nostrils pale creamy white. Nose leather: brick red. Paw pads: black or dark brown, with same color between toes and extending beyond the paws of the hind legs.

I think its the same cat. From a CFA breed article:

http://www.cfainc.org/breeds/profile...ptian-mau.html

The limited gene pool could have presented a severe stumbling block in the survival of the breed. However, Jean Mill (Millwood) imported several badly needed outcrosses from the Delhi Zoo, which CFA accepted for use in the late 1980s.

Also from the CFA Egyptian Mau breed council:

http://www.egyptianmaubc.org/records.html

1980 Millwood Imports arrive from New Delhi India: Toby and Tashi

Not saying that maus should have glitter. Just that its accepted by CFA that the same cat is in the mau lines that gave the bengals their glitter. Jean Mill is seen almost as a hero for bringing this cat into the mau breed. (She's definitely a hero for those who love bengals too! )

I know this thread got way off topic, since it's supposed be about Charlie, but I wonder what the cats real name is.

CFA and some other sites call him Toby. An article written by Jean herself, calls him Tory, and doesn't mention Tashi, although she does say she imported several more domestics from India later on for use in the Mau programs. Maybe Tashi is one of them.

I saw that - its the same cat, and CFA registered it as a mau at that time; however I meant that it might have been a different type of cat that looked close enough to the mau to register it.

It was an import cat from a different area. I think they referred to the cat as a "india mau", which could be different.

That's ok that it got off topic - we are all here to help.....besides I'll be downloading some more Charlie pics today - better one (with Keno and Ling and Charlie) So we'll have a Part 2 on the pics

I have a picture of him, but I can't post it...copywrite. The subtitle says his name is Tory, but was also registered as Toby as an E.Mau.

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

I saw that - its the same cat, and CFA registered it as a mau at that time; however I meant that it might have been a different type of cat that looked close enough to the mau to register it.

It was an import cat from a different area. I think they referred to the cat as a "india mau", which could be different.

That's ok that it got off topic - we are all here to help.....besides I'll be downloading some more Charlie pics today - better one (with Keno and Ling and Charlie)

So we'll have a Part 2 on the pics

Click to expand...

The cat definitely doesn't fit modern day Mau breed standard very well, but he does have small non rosetted spots and the underside fades to a light color. Of course I'm looking at a picture from the 80's, could be he looked much better in person.

Kai, is the picture on the net? can you post the url of it that we can look

A friend of mine had a silver mau in the 80's and I can remember what the cat looked like (it granded in CFA - alter class).

BTW can you explain the bengal "glitter" on the coat with any pictures? I'd like to know what I'm really looking at!

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Kai, is the picture on the net? can you post the url of it that we can look

A friend of mine had a silver mau in the 80's and I can remember what the cat looked like (it granded in CFA - alter class).

BTW can you explain the bengal "glitter" on the coat with any pictures?

I'd like to know what I'm really looking at!

Click to expand...

No, the picture is in my "bengal foundation lookbook". The whole book is copyright to the international bengal cat society.

I'll try to get some glitter pics from my cats. I'll post them if I can get a good shot. It's a bit tough to photograph that feature.

Ok thanks - maybe if you could explain it with the picture. Guess you almost have to see it in person to really understand

I found this in a bengal breeder's website. The part in bold IMO is not the current egyptian mau but an unknown cat that resembled the mau and was used in mau and bengal breedings. So that is where the glitter comes from but is not the standard for the egyptian maus


The genetics was indeed challenging! Early domestic partners of the original ALC males were of unknown heritage and brought a wide range of recessive genes to the crosses, such as long hair, dilute colors, solids, colour point pattern, and the classic tabby pattern. But when the latter met with the leopard spots, the result was a dramatic "smearing" of the spots into odd, startling patterns of black, rust, and light tan combinations. Kittens looked like richly colored Easter eggs! And each kitten was unique! They were called "marbles", were included in the Bengal registry, and were given their own classes at the shows. One of the early genetic contributors to the new breed was a young domestic male from New Delhi, India (Millwood Tory of Delhi), who brought gorgeous emerald green eyes, a spotted coat without stripes, glistening, thick fur (now called "glittered pelt

, and a "hot" orange colour. These characteristics were unknown in the American cat gene pool before that. Early Bengals were carefully bred for sweet temperaments and also exhibited intelligence and unique behaviors tracing back to the wild a




I looked at some other bengal websites. Correct me if I'm wrong - but the "glitter" seems to be the more reddish/orangy base color in the browns. Is that right?