Questions to ask breeder....

epona

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...my search for the purrfect addition to my family continues!

I am going to see some oriental and siamese kittens over the weekend, and have a chat with their breeder
(I am very excited about it!!!
)

We've already had a good chat on the phone, but I just wondered if anyone had tips on what sort of questions I should ask and the things I should look for.
Many thanks
 

goldenkitty45

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Basics:

Shots?
Worming?
Neuter/spayed?
Food?
Parents been checked/cleared for FELV and FIP? (kittens can be checked too).

With siamese/orientals there is a high rate of some cardiomyophothy in lines, so ask about that.

Are you looking for a show cat or pet?

Look for a clean house/enviroment - and happy cats. Are they kept in tiny cages, How social are the adults? That indicates how much attention other then food/water they are getting. How social are the kittens? Charlie is a little hesitant (that's normal) but more/less comes to you when you call him.

Sit on the floor and see how the kittens approach and if you have a small toy/feather, test their reactions. Kittens are usually a bit shy at first, but they shouldn't be sitting in the corner in fear either.

How old are the kittens you are looking at? And how old will they be when adopted out?
 

glamourpuss

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Have you ever visited a breeder before? If you have, you'll know immediately if they're a good breeder. Environment should be clean, kittens should be happy and healthy, the breeder should ask you a lot of questions to make sure you are an acceptible buyer of one of their precious kittens! This is important, you should expect to be highly scrutinised


The breeder should also be keen on showing their cats, this demonstrates that they have a good understanding of what is a good example of the breed. Ask to see the pedigrees of the kitten's parents and note how many champions there are. Find out if they have the kittens already neutered and microchipped before they are sold, it's much better for all concerned if this is the case, and also shows responsibility on the breeder's part.

Good luck!
 

goldenkitty45

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Good point about the showing - I should have mentioned that. That's the difference in a good breeder and a byb breeder. BYB don't show


And if the parents or their other cats are champion or grand champion (better) then you know they put a lot of effort in good breeding/care of the cats/kittens.
 

celestialrags

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Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Good point about the showing - I should have mentioned that. That's the difference in a good breeder and a byb breeder. BYB don't show


And if the parents or their other cats are champion or grand champion (better) then you know they put a lot of effort in good breeding/care of the cats/kittens.
Would you concider me a BYB if I don't show? I live in Maine and there is mabey 1-3 shows a year. I have a young child and horses, and house hold reponsabilities and can't really travel out of state to shows. I have gotten cats with great pedigrees and c and gch lines. My cats were show/breed quality when I purchased them from wonderful breeders. But I have only showed one kitten and so far only once. I do intend to get more into showing, but for now I really haven't been able to. (I only have one queen she has only had three litters, so I haven't been doing this long, I intend to have more cats and show more) But, would some one think that of me (or some one in the situation of me) I would be mad if some one called me a BYB, and I do my best to do things the right way, ei, pediatric alters, shots, worming, health garantees, ect. But, what would any of you say about a breeder like me that doesn't (haven't) showed? would any of you think that?
 

siameseohio

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Well my opinion probably might not matter as much as many others on this site, but I'll give it anyway. Celestialrags, because you mention that your cats are from good pedigree, and you apparently have a big and busy life outside of just cats, that doesn't sound like a BYB to me.

And what about those people who have breeds that are traditional and now the show 'look' has gone in another direction. There animals are pedigreed but they are now unable to show their cats because they don't fit the standard.

I'm thinking of a breeder in particular who has pedigreed animals; is one of the most knowledgeable people I know when it comes to her breed, and cats in general; she took me to the carpet on my lack of knowledge; and has exquisite cats. Her animals are of the traditional sort, verses the more extreme version of this breed that appears in shows. But I'd contest any accusation that she is a BYB because she doesn't show.
 

goldenkitty45

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Ok, I'll back up a bit on the BYB/show. IF you really know your cats and can prove they are from good/solid show cats, then no you would not be a byb. Problem is that I know what questions to ask and what to look for, but if someone who hasn't shown, etc. looks for a kitten, they would not have the slightest clue if you were a good/bad breeder.

Case in point. There was a so called "breeder" of cornish rexes in the DC area. This person was more/less a byb - tho she "claimed" to have good quality cats! She also "claimed" to have shown her cats, but in the 20 yrs I was in the area showing, I never saw her or her cats in shows in the area. She would not know a quality rex is she met one.

But a person who didn't know what to look for would believe her. I did meet one person at a show who had bought one of her cats. They told me the story and they even commented about why their rex did not look like mine. They also happened to have a pedigree with them. There were NO champions/grand champions in the pedigree for 4 generations! And on top of that the colors were wrong so that IMO the papers were falsified or she didn't have the right parents on the pedigree.

Here again, I KNEW what I was looking at. I explained to this person about this breeder. She also told me the breeder had all her cats in cages and the kittens were wild and hard to handle. This breeder also let her kittens go at 8 weeks old - far too early for rex kittens. But if kept any longer, you could not handle them.

We can only advise a person about good/bad points.
 
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epona

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Thanks everyone for the tips!

I am so excited I will have to write all this down before I go so I don't get overwhelmed and forget to ask anything important


Some of it was covered on the phone (had quite a lengthy convo with her, well quite lengthy for me as I'm a bit of a phone-phobic!) but we will go over it again when we meet her.

Goldenkitty - thanks for the reminder that a little initial shyness is reasonable for kittens, I am used to Radar who (even from a tiny kitten) just bowls right on up to people and gets in their faces from the moment he first meets them, even the vet


What sort of things would you ask someone who wanted to adopt one of your kittens? I'm a bit worried about Nate (aka 'motormouth') do you think it will look bad if he is gagged for the duration?
 

anakat

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I would be very surprised if you got a kitten that had been neutered before you got it (most vets in the UK won't neuter before six months) the kitten agreement usually says that you agree to neuter the kitten when it is old enough.
Hope you have fun, and tell Nate that as long as he "motor mouths" about how wonderful her kittens are he will be fine
 

sandtigress

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You'll probably get asked what kind of food you're going to feed them, living environment, other animals, etc. I know that when I was visiting my boys' breeder, she looks at how you interact with the kittens. She told me that she had some people in before who were playing so roughly with the kittens they were doing flips and hitting the floor trying to get the toys - she told them that the kitten they were interested in "wasn't available". I knew when she told me that story that I had passed that test!


She was also checking out how the kittens responded to me - she told me she thought it was a good sign when my Chay was letting me pick him up and pet him. I think she would have steered me to another kitten if Chay didn't really take to me. Best of luck!
 

celestialrags

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GK and Siameseohio.
Thank-you for your replies. First off, I want to say, after re reading my post, it seemed to have a tone to it that I hadn't intended it to have. I wasn't trying to make any one defend their words or come off like I was mad you called some one who doesn't show , ect a BYB. I was just curious what people in general would think of me if I wasn't showing my cats, but for the reasons I have. I wanted to know what other people like you would think of me, or some one like me in my situation. I think a lot of people here have read my posts and know I don't just put two cats together and let em go. But, have good pedigreed cats that are papered, as well as altering, ect. I also have two mentors as well as some one on this site I concider a mentor, that has helped my greatly with learning genetics as well as other things (familytimerags, thank you you are great I love you
)
So, any way, I was just asking to ask the opinions of you guys, if not showing would make other people that doesn't know me would make me look like a BYB, that is why I explained why I didn't show. I hope no one thought I was being confrontational, I really wanted to know how others would veiw me, or some one like me in the situation I am in.
 

goldenkitty45

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I guess its more of how knowledgeable you are about the breed. You should know history, how to read the pedigree and explain to people about the breed.

Even if you don't show a lot (you really should show at least 2-3 times a year if you can - just to keep in contact with other show people; set up a waiting list for kittens, really get to see show type.

Can you evaluate your kittens if they are pet or show? What happens if you breed and get a really great cat? Will you do your best to show him/her?




To the OP - some of the questions I asked were: how do you feel about indoor/outdoor cats - if the person lets their cats outside a lot (or it dies outside), then they will NOT get a cat from me. I ask what happened to their last cat that died. I ask about declawing (I don't want my cats declawed).

And if the person comments about prices, I know they are not good prospects - if you can afford a kitten that cost $400 or more, then you can afford to care for them properly.
 

glamourpuss

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Celestialrags, i think there aren't many excuses not to show here in the UK as we live in a pretty small place compared to the US and it is crammed full of cat shows all year round! Geography must play the largest part of it in your case, and that I can understand.


Epona - is it a London based breeder you're going to visit?
 

urbantigers

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Good luck with the kitten search - hope the kittens you're looking at this weekend turn out to be purrfect


There's some advice on the GCCF website about looking for a pedigree kitten as well as a code of ethics for breeders and owners which would be worth looking at, if you haven't already

http://www.gccfcats.org/kitten.html

When I visited Mosi's breeder it was down to gut instinct as much as anything else. We hit it off straight away and spent ages chatting about my cats, her cats, the kittens etc. Despite there being 4 adult cats and 4 kittens in a small house there was no smell at all and the ktitens were healthy, sociable and obviously well cared for. She showed me his pedigree without my asking and volunteered most information I would have asked for without me having to ask for it eg personality, how big he'd grow etc. Follow your gut instinct and if something doesn't seem right ask questions or say you are looking at more kittens and will get back to them. It's best not to be too hasty despite those cute kitten faces (says she who could never have walked away from Mosi without reserving him!
)
 
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epona

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Fantastic answers here, you are all wonderful and so helpful!

Any kitten I get will not be neutered beforehand, because so few vets here do it before 6 months that trying to get it done early is like looking for gold at the end of the rainbow, there is usually a neuter contract though, where the kitten is still the property of the breeder until you send a neuter certificate from your vet to say it has been done.

I won't be asked about declawing because it's illegal here, but any cat I have would be indoor only and I am confident that I feed a good diet and can discuss nutrition and health requirements


GoldenKitty - I would never quibble about price or try to haggle - but is asking what the adoption fee would be the wrong thing to do? I already know what it will be from the breeder I am visiting, but given that we have really good pet insurance here in the UK, the adoption fee is 20 times more than the excess payment to the insurance company on emergency surgery ever would be, and the rest is paid directly to the vet from the insurance co. If Radar was suddenly taken ill, I would pay £80 up front and the rest would be paid direct by his insurers - even if the cost of surgery was £4,000, I would only pay £80. There's a big difference between being able to pay £80 when needed, which can come out of a month's salary without too much trouble, and the comparitively large sum of £400 (sterling, not dollars) to adopt a pedigree kitten, which may require saving up for a while. If I were a breeder, I would be more concerned with checking that the new owners took out insurance!
 
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epona

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Originally Posted by urbantigers

Good luck with the kitten search - hope the kittens you're looking at this weekend turn out to be purrfect


There's some advice on the GCCF website about looking for a pedigree kitten as well as a code of ethics for breeders and owners which would be worth looking at, if you haven't already

http://www.gccfcats.org/kitten.html

When I visited Mosi's breeder it was down to gut instinct as much as anything else. We hit it off straight away and spent ages chatting about my cats, her cats, the kittens etc. Despite there being 4 adult cats and 4 kittens in a small house there was no smell at all and the ktitens were healthy, sociable and obviously well cared for. She showed me his pedigree without my asking and volunteered most information I would have asked for without me having to ask for it eg personality, how big he'd grow etc. Follow your gut instinct and if something doesn't seem right ask questions or say you are looking at more kittens and will get back to them. It's best not to be too hasty despite those cute kitten faces (says she who could never have walked away from Mosi without reserving him!
)
Thank you! I have looked at the GCCF link, very helpful


If I turned up somewhere which reeked, or cats were routinely in cages or anything, I would run a mile (or maybe 10 miles without stopping!) I am looking for a nice environment where the cats are raised indoors as part of the family, if that isn't the case, I will go elsewhere.

I am a life-long animal lover and 'student' of animal behaviour, and I do have good gut instinct about these things, to me there is a huge and very obvious difference between animals that are loved and well cared for and those that aren't, and I will be to some extent relying on that well ingrained instinct in part tomorrow


Aaargh it's the cute kitten faces, and I'm going to be seeing cute kitten faces with great big enormous ears, and the great big enormous ears are always my downfall (which is why my cat is called Radar cos it was his great big enormous ears that made me have to bring him home
)
 
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epona

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Originally Posted by GlamourPuss

Epona - is it a London based breeder you're going to visit?
No I'm travelling a couple of hours each way on the train. I think I hit it off just fine with the breeder over the phone, so it's worth travelling to meet her and see her cats
 

siameseohio

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celestialrags,

I don't think anyone interpreted what you said as confrontational.
You brought up some valid points. It just shows the danger in making blanket or over-generalized statements about people.

GK,

Thank you for your comments. It does make sense that in order to compare your cats to the 'breed standard', then you'd need to know what the 'breed standard' is. One of the best ways of doing this is participating and/or attending shows.

You gave an example of BYB breeder. With all that you mentioned, it surely sounds as though she is. There were many flags--she kept her animals in small cages, she let them go at 8 weeks, she maybe wasn't honest about her cat(s) pedigree paperwork, she wasn't honest about showing her cats, etc., I don't think anyone would disagree that she fits the bill.

On certain things concerning ethics and honesty, and the care of animals, there isn't any wiggle room. It makes for a bad breeder.
 

siameseohio

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Epona,

I hope that all goes well in your kitten search. I may be strange but I enjoy the journey of finding just the right kitten for our family. The phone calls, emails, research on the breed, etc. Then when it all comes together in finding that perfect baby!

I'm excited for you, and looking forward to hearing how it goes.
 

goldenkitty45

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When I spoke of the pricing thing, I meant that if you quote the price and the person seems like its "too high"...in other words, looking for a bargin, then you'd know that person would not be a good one to sell to. While its been awhile since I bought pedigree cats, I kinda felt that Charlie's price was high - but never questioned it. I did some checking with other oci breeders on their prices and they were all about the same.

So it was a matter of saving a little more then planned - but well worth it. I figured with the cost of either spaying/neutering the cat and getting anything else not covered (all of which WAS covered with Charlie - shots, FELV/FIP testing, and neutering) - the total price of the kitten would have come out about the same anyway


You need to know the price of the kitten to be sure its in your budget.

And pet insurance is not common in the states - but if its a common thing for you all, then you should ask about it.
 
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