TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Abortion: For it, Against it, or stuck in the middle?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Abortion: For it, Against it, or stuck in the middle? - Page 2

post #31 of 58
I am totally and completely Pro-CHOICE.

I know exactly how the procedure is done, and I would support any woman who chooses to abort, as long as she isn't using the procedure as a birth control method.

I completely agree with Lookingglass as well.
post #32 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieKit View Post
Right, my mistake. My english has gotten really bad these past few years. If you dont use it you lose it

I stand corrected though. Condone is a lot like the word 'condenar' in spanish. Condenar means to sentence someone, or to pass judgement. I wouldnt pass judgent on anyone who had an abortion without first listening to them, and even then I am not one to judge, we are all humans and far from perfect.

No problem
I just almost commented on the rape issue, but then I realized what you really meant and didn't need to
post #33 of 58
I can't believe that you don't have free birth control in America. Over here we have family planning clinics with bowls of free condoms, and you can get a free perscription for the pill from 16 until you're too old to take it. We're evidently very lucky.
post #34 of 58
PLanned parent hood in my area does offer free condoms and you can get the pill from them with the exams and such. Some people choose not to use these resources or just don't know they are avaiable to them.
post #35 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I can't believe that you don't have free birth control in America. Over here we have family planning clinics with bowls of free condoms, and you can get a free perscription for the pill from 16 until you're too old to take it. We're evidently very lucky.
Yes you are. It's so frustrating that women in this country don't have adequate access to birth control. Try this one on for size. I am 28 and I have been trying to find a doctor to tie my tubes for 7 years, but DH can get a vasectomy with out too much trouble.
post #36 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieKit View Post
I usually stick to the Cat Lounge so I dont know why you would say I was behind another heated subject? This is my first thread in the IMO forum, and I think it will be my last.
I hope you change your mind about that.
post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I can't believe that you don't have free birth control in America. Over here we have family planning clinics with bowls of free condoms, and you can get a free perscription for the pill from 16 until you're too old to take it. We're evidently very lucky.
Like Brandi said, we do have Planned Parenthood, but they are operated not only by private donations (or payment for services), but some individual state governments offer grants to them as well.
Depending on where you live you CAN receive free birth control based on your income and occupation level. I remember when I was in college, I could receive free BC if I were without a job. If I was a student with a job, then I would receive discounted birth control. If I was not a student but had a job, I would have to pay full price for the birth control method.

Planned Parenthood does hand out condoms for free. At least the ones by my college did.
post #38 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
I am 100% for keeping it safe and legal. My reasoning is that making abortion illegal doesn't stop the problem; it creates a whole new one. The rich will be able to cross the border into Canada or fly to Europe to obtain one. The poor will be forced into back alley abortions that could potentially be life threatening.

The best way to cut down on abortion rates is by having comprehensive sex education starting in Pre-School. I also believe that condoms should be available in every public high school in America, and think that the pill should be OTC.
This is normally a subject that I feel I have very little say so in, but I have to agree with this. Abortions were being done years and years before it was legalized, and they were being done in horrible conditions with all manner of makeshift "instruments". There truly needs to be comprehensive education and readily available non-judgemental counselling available.
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
Yes you are. It's so frustrating that women in this country don't have adequate access to birth control. Try this one on for size. I am 28 and I have been trying to find a doctor to tie my tubes for 7 years, but DH can get a vasectomy with out too much trouble.
Same here.. they wont do it until I've already had a child because "oh... you'll change your mind"
post #40 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MuttigreeMom View Post
Same here.. they wont do it until I've already had a child because "oh... you'll change your mind"
Mine refused me a tubal ligation until I was over age 30, even though I had a teenager who took 36 hours to come into this world. I was done having kids in 1984, but the doctors "need to be sure."

If I had gotten pregnant in the meantime I would absolutely have aborted - raising one child all by myself on welfare was more than enough for me. I had no desire to have my family suffer like that again, nor to bring another child I couldn't afford into this world so that we could further burden society.
post #41 of 58
Having an abortion is the killing of an unborn child. Totally against it.
post #42 of 58
stuck in the middle. I don't agree with it, but I don't agree that a bunch of men should tell women what to do with their bodies, either. Both sides hate me.
post #43 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MiamiSpartan View Post
stuck in the middle. I don't agree with it, but I don't agree that a bunch of men should tell women what to do with their bodies, either. Both sides hate me.
I don't. IMO, women have every right to do whatever we want with our bodies UNTIL it threatens another life. Admittedly, I don't have all the answers (not even most of them). As I said in another thread, I don't consider women who have had an abortion evil. They were in a difficult situation and made an emotional decision.
post #44 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rockcat View Post
IMO, women have every right to do whatever we want with our bodies UNTIL it threatens another life.
And therein lies the rub.

I think most people would agree with that statement in and of itself. However, most of those who are against abortion on moral/religious grounds will say that life begins at conception. Many of those who are for keeping abortion legal don't have the same view of a fetus. The problem with this argument is that distinction. The two sides will never meet, there is no compromise. It's either a separate life from the mother, or still part of her body and her "choice". That's why "debates" (they can't be debates by definition) are pointless because there is no give and take; there is no conceding one's point of view if one has a conviction on the topic.
post #45 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
I am totally and completely Pro-CHOICE.

I know exactly how the procedure is done, and I would support any woman who chooses to abort, as long as she isn't using the procedure as a birth control method.
Same here, I think it's essential that abortion remains a safe option for women. Sex education needs to be greatly improved, so people know all their options.
post #46 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieKit View Post
Now that was extremely unfair. I didnt start this post just to 'get a rise' out of people. I do admit I have a problem wording my thoughts correctly, thus the crappy title.

I usually stick to the Cat Lounge so I dont know why you would say I was behind another heated subject? This is my first thread in the IMO forum, and I think it will be my last.

I read the posts and saw how strongly people were already reacting to it, and I think alot of times people ask the very few questions that are going to have emotional oppinions that are one way or the other such as this where the reactions are so strong. So it just seemed that way to me is all.
I may have seen a post in a thread by some one else that seemed to have caused a heated discussion or it may have been some where else, it is possible that I got you confussed for some one else, and I was thinking for some reason another post (or thread had caught my attention as getting people stired up) was you. How ever I am wrong, if you haven't posted in the IMO before, then I didn't see one by you, atleast in this one, and please don't let my oppinion to your post stop you from giving it in the oppion forum. (or any where) I was just giving an oppinion on the subject and don't expect any one to agree with it or me, any more then I expect you to not voice your opinion because I don't like it. Some one is always going to diagree with you.
post #47 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
Mine refused me a tubal ligation until I was over age 30, even though I had a teenager who took 36 hours to come into this world. I was done having kids in 1984, but the doctors "need to be sure."
Ugh I wish. My doc got sneaky on me.

Knowing I would turn 30 way before I would have a kid (4 years vs never) doc believes "30 or after the first kid, whichever comes last"
post #48 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by GingersMom View Post
Mine refused me a tubal ligation until I was over age 30, even though I had a teenager who took 36 hours to come into this world. I was done having kids in 1984, but the doctors "need to be sure."
They sure do. The amount of lawsuits that would ensue if doctors relented to perform tubal ligation procedures on women who do actually change their minds would be mind-boggling. Unfortunately, doctors are in a lose-lose situation in cases like these. There are years and years and reams and reams of medical evidence to suggest that many women do actually change their minds, despite how adamant they are when they initially ask for the procedure. It is experience, not stubbornness, that leads the medical authorities to rule in this way in these cases. I know it's really hard for the women like you who know what they want beyond any doubt, but there have been too many times where what they want has changed, for it to be anything but ethical for doctors to perform these procedures on whoever asks for it.

We give doctors such a hard time about everything, they'll never be able to win no matter what they do.
post #49 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by KitEKats4Eva! View Post
They sure do. The amount of lawsuits that would ensue if doctors relented to perform tubal ligation procedures on women who do actually change their minds would be mind-boggling. Unfortunately, doctors are in a lose-lose situation in cases like these. There are years and years and reams and reams of medical evidence to suggest that many women do actually change their minds, despite how adamant they are when they initially ask for the procedure. It is experience, not stubbornness, that leads the medical authorities to rule in this way in these cases. I know it's really hard for the women like you who know what they want beyond any doubt, but there have been too many times where what they want has changed, for it to be anything but ethical for doctors to perform these procedures on whoever asks for it.

We give doctors such a hard time about everything, they'll never be able to win no matter what they do.
I see your point but let me add to it. Why is it that I have to wait to get my tubes tied, but DH can get a vasectomy with out much trouble at all? If you compare the two it is much easier to reverse a tubal than it is a vasectomy if one was to change their mind. IMO it shows that there is an inequality in men and women's birth control.
post #50 of 58
Thread Starter 
I think abortion statistics are a bit high here in Puerto Rico. Now I cant say how high, but judging on the # of people who have had abortions in my small community they must be up there. Mind you i've never seen an abortion clinic here, but then again ive never had to look for one.

I believe that what makes the statistics higher is that doctors here will not tie a womans tubes unless she is over 21 and has had at least 2 kids. You can pay a ridiculous amount of money to get your tubes tied with only one kid, but even then they protest.

So when you have the high number of teen pregnancies, and the bad economical state, some people just refuse to add a 2nd, 3rd or 4th kid to an already tight situation.

My husbands ex SIL had her first child at 17. Two months later she was pregnant and aborted. 6 months after that she found herself pregnant, and doubting the paterity also aborted. Fast forward a few years later, she has a new husband, and he desperately wants a child. Shes been pregnant 3 times and all 3 times she has miscarried, and I honestly think its because of the children she aborted.

I know many a women who have aborted simply because they didnt want kids at the moment. That is not right IMO.

On the other hand, I know a woman who I greatly admire. She has 3 kids already, and when she found herself pregnant she was a bit shocked but very happy. When she went for her first ultrasound they told her she was having twins, and for some reason they were unlikely to survive to term, and doctors gave her the choice to abort. Despite all odds against her she decided to continue with her pregancy simply because she couldnt bring herself to abort. She eventually miscarried, but I still admire her because she chose to let God take her children from her on his own time instead of letting some doctor scrape them from her womb.

I personally would never abort because I cannot take a life, especially not one that didnt ask to be born. Besides, I couldnt live with myself if I aborted my child and down the road when I wanted children I couldnt have them.

I know some people do think it is the only solution. I know with some people there is hardly another choice. But I look at my baby boy every day and I realize all I would have missed if I had not had him. He is so sweet and caring, so beautiful and kind, I know the world would have been a dull place without him
post #51 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
I see your point but let me add to it. Why is it that I have to wait to get my tubes tied, but DH can get a vasectomy with out much trouble at all? If you compare the two it is much easier to reverse a tubal than it is a vasectomy if one was to change their mind. IMO it shows that there is an inequality in men and women's birth control.
Agreed. It's the same old story though, isn't it? It seems that things always have to be 100 times harder for women! I don't know why it should be any less traumatic for a man to not be able to create a life than for a woman to bear a child. But old biases remain, unfortunately.
post #52 of 58
I am pro-choice. I don't like the idea of abortions, I don't like the accompanying heartache, and I don't like the belief that some people have the abortions are just another form of birth control, but I believe that it should be the woman's right to choose what she does with her own body. I'm not sure what choice I would make, personally, but if I found out that my unborn child had a lethal, debilitating and horrendous illness, or if I was raped and became pregnant ... I would want the choice to abort to be open to me.

My big concern is with the rights of the father. On the one hand, I cannot imagine how much suffering it could cause to find out your partner was pregnant and that she chose to abort against your wishes and/or beliefs. On the other hand, I'm really torn at the idea of a woman being forced to carry a child that she does not want to term just because her partner wants it -- that's nine months of her life coping with the pregnancy (and if her pregnancy is anything like my mother's or like my friend K's, we're not talking about a bit of unpleasant morning sickness, we're talking about months of severe illness and hospitalization: should a woman have to go through that just because her partner wants the child?). So, I'm undecided on this issue, as there is no way to fairly resolve it for both parties.
post #53 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lookingglass View Post
I see your point but let me add to it. Why is it that I have to wait to get my tubes tied, but DH can get a vasectomy with out much trouble at all? If you compare the two it is much easier to reverse a tubal than it is a vasectomy if one was to change their mind. IMO it shows that there is an inequality in men and women's birth control.


I understand your point and I agree it is very unfair, because there should be an equality, especially when dealing with something as serious as bringing children into this world.

I can also understand the doctors way of thinking (though im not saying they are right). A large part of men dont have that paternal instinct. Many dont have that desire to become a parent. Heck, a big part of them arent even fit to be fathers! Which I believe is why doctors are so willing to perform the procedure on them, rather than having an unfit human being producing dozens of unwanted children. A man can make dozens and dozens of babies if he wants, and this is probably one of the biggest reasons the vasectomy is so easily accepted.

Now lets look at society today. I dont think a large part of society can accept that some women do not want children EVER. For them its hard to accept, because the woman has always been the one yearning for children, and needed to be sorrounded by her children. So I do understand why its such a difference, even though its not correct.
post #54 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by valanhb View Post
And therein lies the rub.

I think most people would agree with that statement in and of itself. However, most of those who are against abortion on moral/religious grounds will say that life begins at conception. Many of those who are for keeping abortion legal don't have the same view of a fetus. The problem with this argument is that distinction. The two sides will never meet, there is no compromise. It's either a separate life from the mother, or still part of her body and her "choice". That's why "debates" (they can't be debates by definition) are pointless because there is no give and take; there is no conceding one's point of view if one has a conviction on the topic.
You are exactly right. Thats why I usually don't express myself on this topic. Then I started feeling guilty for not saying anything...
post #55 of 58
IMO I am against abortion. But I do agree that birth control should be basically free and available to all young people....
post #56 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieKit View Post
I can also understand the doctors way of thinking (though im not saying they are right). A large part of men dont have that paternal instinct. Many dont have that desire to become a parent. Heck, a big part of them arent even fit to be fathers! Which I believe is why doctors are so willing to perform the procedure on them, rather than having an unfit human being producing dozens of unwanted children.
I don't agree with this, but I think it might be this mentality that enables doctors to tell women they have to wait but will let men do it the moment they're old enough to make these decisions for themselves (my friend had a vasectomy at age 18 -- he would've had it done sooner, but the doctor wouldn't let him because he wasn't an adult; he's always known he doesn't want to have children, and has never changed his mind and he's now close to 40). The men that I know will (and do) make excellent fathers. I think our society simply has a hard time believing that men do indeed possess paternal instincts, just as JulieKit said when, in the rest of her post, she said that our society has a hard time believing that some women don't have maternal instincts.

I also don't understand why there would be lawsuits with doctors following a patient's wishes in performing a tubal ligation. I think there should be an age requirement, but only insofar as I think the woman making the decision should be a consenting adult. If I, as an adult capable of making sound decisions about my life, want to have my tubes tied now and not wait until I've either had children or until I reach a certain age, that should be my choice and not my doctor's. My doctor's concerns should be only that I'm healthy enough to have the procedure done and that I'm actually capable of making this decision for myself (that I'm over the age of majority, that I'm of sound mind, and that no one is forcing me to have the procedure done). Can anyone explain the reasoning behind this age requirement to me?
post #57 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by JulieKit View Post
I understand your point and I agree it is very unfair, because there should be an equality, especially when dealing with something as serious as bringing children into this world.

I can also understand the doctors way of thinking (though im not saying they are right). A large part of men dont have that paternal instinct. Many dont have that desire to become a parent. Heck, a big part of them arent even fit to be fathers! Which I believe is why doctors are so willing to perform the procedure on them, rather than having an unfit human being producing dozens of unwanted children. A man can make dozens and dozens of babies if he wants, and this is probably one of the biggest reasons the vasectomy is so easily accepted.

Now lets look at society today. I dont think a large part of society can accept that some women do not want children EVER. For them its hard to accept, because the woman has always been the one yearning for children, and needed to be sorrounded by her children. So I do understand why its such a difference, even though its not correct.
I have found a lot of men who wouldn't date me because I didn't want to have children. They wanted to be fathers. My opinion is that women should be able to stand up for themselves and get the tubal done if it is what they want.

I'm also not asking for society to accept the fact that I don't want children. In fact, I know that that isn't possible. What I'm asking society to do is not push me into methods that don't work for me. I can't take the pill. Barrier methods have a scary failure rate. They best way to prevent me from having an abortion would be for me to get a tubal.
post #58 of 58
I don't know many people here but I am really proud on how this thread is going. I avoided it for days assuming there was arguing going on.

I am Pro-Choice. If I was a rape victim & abortion was illegial I would go insane. I don't think people should have them left and right but it is that mother's choice. We don't know what it is like to make a heavy decision until we are in their shoes.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: IMO: In My Opinion
TheCatSite.com › Forums › General Forums › IMO: In My Opinion › Abortion: For it, Against it, or stuck in the middle?