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Persian Standars

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
I have two persians. One of them is a particolor, the other one is cream point himalayan. Particolor is a rescue and himalayan is bought from a petshop. There are some differences between two. For example the ears of himalayan are much more apart than persian's. Persian's eyes are upwards, himalayan's eyes are downwards. Himalayan's nose is at the same line with his eyes. Persian's nose is much lower than her eyes. Their noses are both compressed. Which of my cats are more close to the standards? Here is a picture of them for you to compare.

post #2 of 27
All cats may vary in looks a bit. Even if they are purebred. They probably were backyard bred or from a mill type situation or even just clueless breeders. Unless you have papers, you really can't guarentee that they are pure. Even with the squished faces, there could be something else mixed in there.
post #3 of 27
its hard to compare from the photo you posted. idealy a better set up shop would be better for compareing standard ect.

while they do look purebred, i agree with the other poster.without papers you cant guarentee.
post #4 of 27
Your himalayan looks closer to the standard than your tortie. He might be showable although believe it or not his nose might still be a tad low; more than that, he looks a bit eary although I'd have to see more pics than just the one to tell you. What association is he registered with, and is his bite perfect? {Crooked bites are a disqualifier}.

Oh..are you sure he's a cream point? He looks more like a flame pt. to me.
post #5 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrytreecats View Post

Oh..are you sure he's a cream point? He looks more like a flame pt. to me.

Isn't cream just the pattern? Like a lynx point or a torti point? Color would be flame, so he would be a flame cream point (like a blue cream or a lilac cream, ect) The color is one thing and the pattern is different, ie a blue lynx or in this case flame cream point. It may be different with himalayans, I raise only traditional ragdolls, so they could be called some other way, and since I only work traditionals I don't deal with lynx, torti, or creams, nor do I raise flames. So I could be wrong, I don't work with those colors/patterns with ragdolls, which could be completely wrong when dealing with persian/himi's.
post #6 of 27
heres some info on the colors direct from cfa, i dont do the himmis with the points at all...myself.

HIMALAYAN (POINT) PATTERN: Body: clear color is preferred with subtle shading allowed. Allowance should be made for darker color in older cats but there must be a definite contrast between body color and point color. The points, consisting of ears, legs, feet, tail, and mask show the basic color of the cat. The ideal mask extends from above the eyes down through the chin and stretches beyond the eyes from side to side.

FLAME (Red) POINT: body creamy white. Points deep orange flame to deep red. Nose leather and paw pads: flesh to coral pink. Eye color: deep vivid blue.

CREAM POINT: body creamy white. Points buff cream. Nose leather and paw pads: flesh to coral pink. Eye color: deep vivid blue.

so from the picture this himmi is def. flame pt.
post #7 of 27
Forgive me but what is wrong with the Himmie's eyes and mouth?
post #8 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abymummy View Post
Forgive me but what is wrong with the Himmie's eyes and mouth?
i think hes just yawning funny
post #9 of 27
Since I showed cats and am familiar with the persian (himis are just a color division now), neither of them are what is called for in the standard. Both are pet quality. The petshop kitty more then likely came from a kitten mill and the other a byb.

A true show quality doesn't look like either. Read the persian standard in CFA and you will see why. The himi is too extreme and the nose is too close to the eyes. BTW its NOT a cream point - its a red or flame point himi - color is way too dark for a cream.

If you are interested in showing, show them in the HHP classes. And I do hope the both are neutered/spayed cause neither should be bred. And if you are interested in showing a good quality himi/persian then get a neutered cat from a good breeder - do research.

They are both pretty and hope you have them for a long time.


Here's some pictures as to what show quality persians look like:

http://www.purrinlot.com/page7.htm

http://www.freewebs.com/catzr4mecats/queens.htm
post #10 of 27
Thread Starter 
Thank you all for the replies,
I am not planning to show and I know they are pet quality. I just want to ask because there are some diffences between two and I wondered which one is "closer" to standards. I think my himmie is closer. Btw, yes he is yawning and I need to clean his eyes. They are neutered/spayed. I live in Turkey and cat shows happen very rarely and as they happen so rarely probably there arent any show quality cats sold or kept.
post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by celestialrags View Post
Isn't cream just the pattern? Like a lynx point or a torti point? Color would be flame, so he would be a flame cream point (like a blue cream or a lilac cream, ect) The color is one thing and the pattern is different, ie a blue lynx or in this case flame cream point.
Flame point is just another term meaning red point. Cream is the dilute form of red, so he can be a flame point or a cream point, but he can't be both.
post #12 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by merrytreecats View Post
Flame point is just another term meaning red point. Cream is the dilute form of red, so he can be a flame point or a cream point, but he can't be both.
I know what flame points are. I know what points are. I am not familiar with creams, torti, lynx points though (I am more familiar with lynx). I thought I had seen some one say they had a blue cream. So when they said blue cream they meant that they had a cream, but it was a the blue colored cream? Like If the OP's cat was liter colored it would just be concidered a cream, but it is a liter flame? Or is cream just one color, like gold or blue? I am confussed now, mabey when I saw one with color on the face it was a diule torti point or some thing? I thought that it said it was a blue cream.
post #13 of 27
I think cream is just a fancy way of saying 'dilute'. So to be more specific, it would be a 'red dilute point', but people usually say cream 'cause it sounds better.

And with the blue cream, its a black/red tortie thats diluted to blue/cream.
post #14 of 27
Celest, here's a brief easy description of basic point colors.

Solid:
seal (black)
blue (dilute of the seal)
red (flame)
cream (dilute of the red
chocolate (milk choc. color)
lilac (dilute of the chocolate).

Multi -
tortie (seal and red mixed)
dilute tortie/blue cream (blue and cream mixed - dilute of the tortie colors)
chocolate tortie - (chocolate and red)
lilac-cream - (lilac and cream mixed)

Then you can throw in the lynx points (tabby) and have all those above colors with tabby markings

Does that help?
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Celest, here's a brief easy description of basic point colors.

Solid:
seal (black)
blue (dilute of the seal)
red (flame)
cream (dilute of the red
chocolate (milk choc. color)
lilac (dilute of the chocolate).

Multi -
tortie (seal and red mixed)
dilute tortie/blue cream (blue and cream mixed - dilute of the tortie colors)
chocolate tortie - (chocolate and red)
lilac-cream - (lilac and cream mixed)

Then you can throw in the lynx points (tabby) and have all those above colors with tabby markings

Does that help?
That helps
I was getting confussed, I know what I was thinking, but was trying to think of some thing else, LOL! I am trying to learn genetics for colors/patterns for raggies, and I have ben getting so much info lately I am over whelming myself with it
I had seen a cat with light blue and patches almost of lighter colors, I thought they said blue cream, so I thought it was the blue with cream colors. mabey a torti? With the OPs cat I was seeing the flame, but on his face under the nose I saw "white (cream" ) so I thought that would make it like a flame cream point. That is where I am comming from I know he is a flame but I thought he had some cream in there too, if you look at his face, around the eyes and the mustche are light I thought, so that is why I was asking about being a flame cream.

Tif, another poster said it is either cream or red you can't have both this is where I was getting confussed. But I thought you would say flame cream or blue cream, and merrytreecats was saying it is a cream or a flame.
I am looking at adopting a cat he is (I think it said) cream tabny, so while I know the difference between some thing being red or being cream, I was wondering if the lighter spots I thought I was seeing were cream, just like with a lynx. It is a bloe color but the pattern is lynx blue lynx. But some one said it can't be both?

GK45. I see a lot of people calling cats flame or reds. I recently seen a siamese called a flame, I thought they were called red? I thought pretty much the short haired are called reds and the LH are called flames. Am I wrong, or does it go by just certain breeds or breeders some say one some say the other. I thought the advertiser just didn't know what they were doing well, but then I see some one say they had a red himi, or some thing. Does it really matter? or is it catorigized another way? himi's and ragdolls are called flame, while siamese, rex, abysinians, ect are called reds. Is that how they are classified? I like learning these thing! I really am learning too, I just occationally get mixed up, but I really am learning I find it all so fascinating!
post #16 of 27
For some reason (beyond me) the longhair people call red points "flame" and the shorthairs red points. Those that don't really know that interchange them - but its still the same color.

Personally, I think they should just be called red points - no matter what lenght of hair.
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
For some reason (beyond me) the longhair people call red points "flame" and the shorthairs red points. Those that don't really know that interchange them - but its still the same color.

Personally, I think they should just be called red points - no matter what lenght of hair.
So it s the hair that they call different, I thought I heard that some where. I have always heard the flame, so I think it sounds better then red (dealing with raggies that's what I hear, flame points) So I would end up thinking they should all be called flames
I know with you, you had more red so that's what your used to I knew they were the same color, but I wasn't sure if I was right thinking it was LH as flames and SH as reds.
post #18 of 27
Of course, my husband says "you cat people are ALL colorblind" - he insists we do not have blue cats - they are grey - if they were blue they would be the color of Marge Simpson's hair

And red to him is orange....I'm still working on educating him on proper colors
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by celestialrags View Post
Isn't cream just the pattern? Like a lynx point or a torti point? Color would be flame, so he would be a flame cream point (like a blue cream or a lilac cream, ect)
I just noticed in this post when I was asking if cream point was the pattern, I said that flame is the color so he WOULD be a flame cream point. I worded that wrong I didn't mean to say that WAS what he is. What I was trying to say (or ask really)was that IF cream was the pattern and flame was his color that wouldn't he be a flame cream point, I really was asking not telling

Quote:
Originally Posted by merrytreecats View Post
Flame point is just another term meaning red point. Cream is the dilute form of red, so he can be a flame point or a cream point, but he can't be both.
I do know about color points and dilutes and such. But, in the picture in face looks light under his nose so I had wondered if that was the cream and the rest of the points are flame.
post #20 of 27
Have to remember this is NOT a show cat, so its not surprising that the color is probably off. You don't get good color from poor quality cats
post #21 of 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
Of course, my husband says "you cat people are ALL colorblind" - he insists we do not have blue cats - they are grey - if they were blue they would be the color of Marge Simpson's hair

And red to him is orange....I'm still working on educating him on proper colors
He is right, blue would be marges hair When you see a blue cat at a shelter they call them grey I do use proper colors when I talk about mine though, I don't say I have a grey point, I have a blue point
I do have to disagree with him on the orange though, if they were orange wouldn't look like a basketball?
well good luck with the education
post #22 of 27
Yeah, but you also have the shade of a orange fruit too

So I kinda compromise and call it "red-orange" or "blue-grey"....

At a show we had a person INSIST they had a grey/tan cat (it was blue cream) and nothing would convince them otherwise
post #23 of 27
We don't have flame point at all in the UK its just red point for all breeds and fur length. We also don't have lynx point which we call tabby point instead. I am always getting confused by these things. Eg. a colourpoint in the UK is a himi and the US its a Siamese cat with tabby or tortie points (CFA does not consider them Siamese so the are called Colourpoint shorthairs). The Javanese is the longhaired version of the colourpoint with would be a tortie and or tabby point Balinese in the UK.

Ok I'll stop clogging up your thread!
post #24 of 27


And Sims - you all do spell wrong
post #25 of 27
Hahahahah! Color v Colour is a funny thing! I went to a British school as a child but during the Gulf war we moved to New Jersey with my uncle, my teacher used to mark my spelling of "colour" as incorrect. So I changed it moved back to the Gulf same thing happened changed. Went to college in the states you guessed it! So now I actually alternate between the spellings.

Poor GK bet you were not expecting a story!
post #26 of 27
No but that's cute - I suppose that if we moved to England or Australia, I'd have to start spelling it the "other" way. What's more funny (to me) is that Australia (and I assume England) calls spay/neuter as "desexed".

I'm on the Cat World message board and it took a few mins to realize what they were saying....
post #27 of 27
I have heard desexed in from Australians before but not from Brits (not one myself just DH) but I could be wrong
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