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What is the difference between a Ragdoll and a Ragamuffin?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 
I looked up their profiles on the CFA site, but I couldn't really tell. Is it that Ragdolls are pointed with snowshoes and Ragamuffins can come in more colors? What about Birmans? Is there any difference in type? I know these are all different breeds, I'm just wonering what sets them apart from each other.

Thanks!
post #2 of 11
This is a topic that is frequent in many of the forums that I go to. Instead of me writing in long detail just my opinions between the Ragdoll and Ragamuffin, I am going to link you to a forum thread regarding many opinions and facts on the differences of the Ragdoll and Ragamuffin. I hope this is allowed, if not, please remove, and I will be sure to PM the link.
http://www.ragdollcentral.com/phpBB2...pic.php?t=2136

In some organizations the Ragamuffin has been accepted, I believe ACFA accepted them for championship status, but CFA and TICA have not. I may be wrong, if I am, I will be quickly corrected.

The Ragdoll breed does not have any acceptable outcrosses, in which the Ragamuffin accepts many outcrosses, including the Ragdoll. Which in my OPINION, the Ragdoll and Ragamuffin breeds, aside from color and a more accepting white spotting factor standard, the breeds are very much alike.

If one likes the Pointed, blue eyed Ragdoll, then go with the Ragdoll, and if one likes the various color choices that the Ragamuffin comes in then go with the Ragamuffin.

There are also a few that breed the Mink and Solid Ragdolls, which would take an entire thread, and various opinions. However, I can say that most of the Ragdoll breeders do hope to see the Ragdoll stay a blue eyed pointed breed only, and not allow the Minks and Solids in for championship status.

These are my opinions only.

The Ragdoll comes in only 3 accepted patterns, colorpoint, mitted, and bicolor. The white spotting factor can throw many patterns out, some that have the bicolor face, but the mitted legs, called a mitted/bicolor, this is not accepted for show.
Ragdolls and Birmans have very strict guidelines in showing regarding the white spotting, as called for in the standard.

I see a great difference between the Birman and Ragdoll breed. The Birman does come in only one pattern, the only similarities in my opinion would be the fact that both breeds come in a pattern that looks similar, but if looked at closely would not be the same. The standard of the Birman vs Ragdoll calls for different eye shape, different head shape, a much different profile. The mitted Ragdoll which to some may resemble a Birman, should have a white chin, which will follow the white pattern into the white bib and a white striped underbelly. I am not sure of the exact pattern of the Birman, only knowing the back feet have longer laces in back, where the Ragdoll has the white going up most of the leg.


Here is our altered mitted male, you can see the white mitts, and white chin.


Here you can see a typical Ragdoll pose, and the way the white chin flows into the white bib and underbelly. You can note a flaw, a small spot of color on his left back foot, for show, one would want all white.

This is the bicolor pattern, for the Ragdoll. She is not looking too happy, she was pregnant when I took this picture, but she does have the perfect inverted "V" patterning on her face. The color will be on her face, ears, saddle, tail, but underbelly and all 4 legs should be white for show.

I don't have a picture ready and uploaded of a colorpoint, but Celestialrags, has a beautiful blue colorpoint in her signature of Icey. A colorpoint has no white, so it wouldn't be judged on pattern, but still judged on other confirmation.

If you are looking for one of these breeds just as a pet, I would suggest going to a show and speaking to breeders about their cats. It may help you make a hard decision, as they are all wonderful breeds, and beautiful cats.
post #3 of 11
http://tica.org/html/english/cats/breeds.php

Here is the TICA standard for each breed, you can read the difference between the Birman and Ragdoll standard. There isn't a Ragamuffin standard shown on this link.

Another thing is to look at specific breed clubs for the Ragdoll, Birman, and Ragamuffin. These clubs should show the best of the best of the breed, and you may be able to tell a bit better the differences in looks.

For the Ragdoll there is 3 clubs.

www.ragdollinternational.org
www.rfci.org
http://rfwclub.org

I am not sure how many clubs the Birman has, but I did find this link for the Birman, hopefully some Birman fans can chime in and send you to credible links for this breed. http://www.vcnet.com/valkat/nbf/nbf1.html

Hope this helps.
post #4 of 11
Here is a picture of my blue colorpoint that FTR's mentioned (thanks for the compliment on her, as always your a sweety) Icey:

post #5 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FamilytimeRags View Post

Here you can see a typical Ragdoll pose...
OMG!!! I just wanna pick him up and HUUUUUGGGG him!!!

Quote:
She's gorgeous! I can see the almond shape to her eyes.

Thanks for all the info FTR! I knew there were differences, but my eye isn't good enough to pick them all out.
post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by celestialrags View Post
Here is a picture of my blue colorpoint that FTR's mentioned (thanks for the compliment on her, as always your a sweety) Icey:

OK, now whats the diff between her and a dollface himalayan? The nose is still longer/more roman on your ragdolls right? I'm assuming theres a diff in coat too? She looks pretty floofy in this pic. She's very pretty too. I think blue points are so classy!
post #7 of 11
Himi's have short round ears, and more of a pushed in face - even the "doll-faced" ones would be shorter in the muzzle. The coat texture would be different and the body would be different - shorter legs, cobby body.
post #8 of 11
Stormi (FamilytimeRags) am I correct in thinking that one of the first of the Ragdoll stock was a Birman - or part Birman? (I think Smudge looks like one of those because he doesn't have a white chin.)
post #9 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by kluchetta View Post
Stormi (FamilytimeRags) am I correct in thinking that one of the first of the Ragdoll stock was a Birman - or part Birman? (I think Smudge looks like one of those because he doesn't have a white chin.)
While some Ragdoll breeders have used the Birman to bring in the reds and lynxs, the Birman was not part of the origninal Ragdoll, or a part of the Ragdolls origin.
The Ragdoll origin is very cloudy, but what is known is the breed begun in Riverside, CA by a woman named Ann Baker. She lived next door to a woman who fed many feral cats, one being a stray white cat who was said to have a very feral personality until she was hit by a car while pregnant, and after being nursed back to health, and her kittens were raised they had a unique personality that Ann Baker thought was intriguing.
The Ragdoll orgin states that Jospehine, a white stray, a Birman "TYPE" male, and a Burmese "TYPE male, that begun the breed, all were stray cats that Ann Baker chose for her "so called" breeding program. From these offspring, she created the foundation of the breed, beginning with Raggedy Ann Daddy Warbucks, which was what Ann believed would become the referenced look of the Ragdoll breed.
TICA genetist, Solvieg, has actually done DNA testing to prove that the white spotting factor found in the Birmans, is not the same white spotting factor found in Ragdolls.
At the time of the Ragdolls time of creation, the Birmans were still fairly new in the states, as well, so the likely hood of these "so called Purebreeds" being the actual origin is unlikely. It is the opinion of many that these cats resembled that of these breeds.
Birmans only come in one pattern, only creating white on the feet.
Ragdolls come in three distinct patterns, the mitted, bicolor, and colorpoint, but also these patterns, what can become confusing is the bicolor pattern comes in 3 different genotypes, that will determine the patterns of the kittens, depending on the other cat chosen to mate with.
The 3 different genotypes of the Bicolor, is the True Bicolor, High Mitted Bicolor, and the Mid High White, and I suppose a fourth if you also count the High White, also known as a Van. As well, because of the way the white spotting factor may work, you can not just look at the bicolor and know what genotype you are working with. You will only know that the cat is a phenotypical bicolor.
Smudge is beautiful the way he is, and a colored chin is actually what is called for in the Birman breed, but that is just how unpredictable the white spotting factor is to work with.
It is difficult when showing Ragdolls and Birmans, because not only do you want the perfect body type, but also the white needs to be in exact places to really be looked at in the show halls.
So, short answer to you question...LOL....is no Birmans in the beginning have nothing to do with our Ragdolls, however, as I said some Ragdoll breeders have used outcrossing with Birmans and Himi's to bring in the Reds and Lynx's which is also now acceptable for championship status, however I don't know the exact date of when each cat fancy organization accepted them for championship status.
When using an outcross, at least in TICA, each generation goes through a set of codes before they become an official SBT (Stud Book Traditional) breed again. I believe first comes AON, BON, CON, and then 1st generation SBT again. These codes may be different depending on what breed is used for outcrossing.....I believe.
I hope this long answer helps to answer your question. Where is new pictures of my kitty nephew? Has Auntie Stormi missed some updates? Please let me know when you update, i would love to see how big he has became now.
post #10 of 11
Wow. That was cool. I've read some of that info before, but never was able to put it together! Smudge is 11.5 - 12 pounds, and my daughter first used up my entire digital camera and then used up the battery! So I've charged it, and now I've got to go through the photos and see what can be deleted. (Plus, I hadn't said too much, but I've been not well, and just now started figuring out what's wrong, blah blah.) I'll get photos for you and Leslye soon!

OK - back on topic!
post #11 of 11
I luv my ragdolls...they are such a loving , funny dog/cat *g
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