Corona Virus Positive Testing

I'm in somewhat of a delima ... I have two cats who tested negative for the corona virus and so our household is "negative".

My mom who is 90 years old and in failing health was placed in a nursing home. She had 4 cats and I've brought them 1100 miles to try to adopt out the youngest two and keep the oldest two.

Three of the four cats tested positive for the corona virus (the test is looking for FIP, of course, but shows up positive for any corona virus).

Our vet has recommended the vaccine for FIP (nasal and mouth drops) for our existing cats.

The three cats that tested positive for corona virus were at 1:100, 1:100 and then a higher level of 1:400 (the youngest cat at just under 1 year old). The other two cats are 6 and 8 years old, respectively.

My questions are:

1. Can the positives actually turn negative after a certain period of time. That is, if I kept them away from my cats and test them periodically (once per month?) will that be a good game plan?

2. How about the vaccine? I've read so many pros and cons that I'm truly confused but have a call into a cat vet specialist who may be able to answer my questions.

3. How prevelant is the mutation to the dangerous form of FIP which is fatal. I've never known a cat to have it, but I really don't want to put my existing negative/healthy cats in jeopardy. But then again, I really have love my mom's cats too.

It really is tearing me up thinking of all the "what-if's" ...

It sounds like you are already arming yourself with information about this and that is the best you can do. Every story you read and every vet you talk to will give you a slightly different opinion about FIP. I'll share my opinion, but like everything else you will hear, it is only an opinion.

Our Humane Society doesn't bother checking for the corona virus as a large majority of cats will test for high titers - any cat exposed will show a higher than normal titer count.

There was a period of time when the test first came out that vets would routinely euthanize a cat with a high titer count. There are still vets out there that support this obsolete practice.

My vet also is against routine testing for the same reasons. He will test if he suspects FIP, but also stresses that the test is not conclusive. He is also of the opinion that a large majority of cats would test positive. Cats that die from FIP just seem to be genetically pre-disposed to it and the odds are low compare to the cats exposed to it. No one actually knows the percent of exposure to full mutation.

I had a cat that died from FIP that lived in a household with 7 other cats. He used to nurse off of 1 of the cats (I found him as a kitten) and was best buddies with 2 others. I lost the last of those cats 2 years ago and all of these exposed cats lived with my current clan, some for many years.

Even though I have clearly been exposed to FIP in my household, none of the other cats have ever shown signs of it. And if you trace down the cat combinations over the years (those directly exposed and those subsequently exposed from those exposed), I would say that I've exposed 35-40 cats to him.

You can what if yourself to death over this. My personal opinion is that the odds are in your favor that you will be OK. But here is some advise: Cats that get the mutated form usually get it after a major stress in their lives. The cat I lost died within 2 weeks after moving him across country (Houston to Kansas City). Isolate the newcomers for a while, and if they ride out that major change in their lives, then their exposure to whatever it was they were exposed to isn't going to kill them.

I personally would never hesitate to adopt another cat, in spite of every last one of mine being indirectly exposed to a cat that died from FIP.

And for all of the above reasons and at the recommendation of at least 2 vets, I do not vaccinate for FIP. Their advise is that is a waste of money.

And btw - if you in that part of town, Dr Mandelo at the Richmond Animal Clinic is the best!!

Thank you so much for your input. My vet seems to be more of a "dog" vet than a cat vet.

I had a call into a vet in Houston who specializes in cats only and came highly recommended. When I called their office to just chat about this issue with them, the assistant I talked to said that their practice does not use this vaccine and they took my name so that the vet could give me a call to tell me why.

I have the ability to keep the cats separate from my cats for a period of time. I think I will go that route and just do the "wait and see" and test periodically to see if they're still shedding.

The point that you made regarding the stress of the move really bothers me. Two of the cats (the older ones) are taking the move really well. I have them boarded at the vets but they're happy and purring.

Unfortunately, the two younger cats are not adjusting very well. One was negative while the other was positive and with the higher count.

I really worry about him since he seems so upset by the move and he is only 1 year old which seems to indicate that it could create a problem.

I'm trying really hard to find a home for the youngest two but I'm also worried that their leukemia test will show up positive since they've both received the vaccine. According to my vet, it's "worthless" to test for FELV since they've received the vaccine. I just can't give them to a shelter for this very reason ... plus, it goes against my very nature to give up any animal.

If you know of anyone in the Houston area looking for sweet, fixed, de-clawed cats, I'd appreciate it. I don't de-claw my own cats, but my sister (due to my mom's age) had them de-clawed.

My husband is laughing at me because I'm already looking at getting an "efficiency" apartment where I can pay a huge pet deposit and keep these new kittens until my worries subside. And, visit them twice a day, of course!! I just want to get the youngest out of the boarding situation asap because of how upset he looks and because of his test results .... <Sigh!>

I wouldn't worry too much about high titre levels, FIP is actually quite rare, and as someone else said, if they dont get ill after the stress of a move, it is unlikely. And as for the bit about FeLV, why would you test if they are vaccinated? IF you wanted to adopt them out, you tell the new owners they are vaccinated.

Originally Posted by booktigger

I wouldn't worry too much about high titre levels, FIP is actually quite rare, and as someone else said, if they dont get ill after the stress of a move, it is unlikely. And as for the bit about FeLV, why would you test if they are vaccinated? IF you wanted to adopt them out, you tell the new owners they are vaccinated.

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About the FeLV, I was just worried that a new owner would want them tested and I can't provide a negative result since they've been vaccinated. Maybe that concern is totally out of place, but I'm learning so much about what shows up in tests that a new owner may want to know about.

I'm really thinking about getting my current cats micro chipped to tell someone this just in they ever get out ... At least my 6 year old who does try to "escape" on occasion when the door is opened.

My 14 year old has no desire whatsoever to go outdoors

I guess my concern about FIP came from my vet who when he saw the titre readings (1:100) on the new cats his first statement was, "I've got BAD news". He made it sound as if these new cats were terminal, and being a good pet owner, I should never introduce them to my existing cats. My vet told the ultimate horror story (for me) about a couple bringing a new cat with a high titre level into their home with their two existing cats and both cats were dead within the month and the new one followed shortly thereafter.

Then, even coming to this site and doing a search on FIP, I do see a lot of mention of FIP and that several cats here have died from it ...

I think I'm going to find a location where I can keep the cats separated from my cats for 60 days. I may even talk a friend or two into fostering for that time (fingers crossed) so that they have some good interaction with people.

It is all just so confusing when you have a vet telling you horror stories and then getting on the internet to do research ... trying to make a decision that could affect my babies lives (whether or not to get a vaccine).

I do have one more question ... the titre levels show that the cat is shedding some sort of corona virus (be it the bad kind of the beign kind), correct?

Is it likely if I have them tested in 2 months that their titre level could go below the "positive" levels? If so, how many months should I test to make sure that the shedding is (in most liklihood) gone? That is, they are not chronic or periodic shedders of the disease?

I completely sympathize with your concern. FIP is a very mysterious disease, and because it is almost always fatal if it develops, it can create a sense of panic. I apologize now for my long mesage. FIP is an issue that is very close to my heart.

I had lost a cat to FIP when she was quite young. I had also adopted her brother, and my former vet basically had a sense of doom about the surviving cat, Brady. She said I should get him coronavirus tested repeatedly. His titer level has remained 1:800, but after talking to other vets, breeders, and cat owners, I later decided to no longer test him.

Cats with confirmed cases of FIP have died with negative titer levels, with low titer levels, and with sky-high titer levels; the test itself seems pretty useless to me in many cases, and especially if a cat shows no signs of illness.

Since Sasha passed away, I have chosen to bring another kitten into my home. There may be some risk, but from what I have learned, it seems like the risk is minimal. I have read that as many as 80-90% of cats from catteries, shelters, and multi-cat homes have been exposed to the coronavirus, and depending on who you talk to, the risk of ANY cat having CoV transform into FIP ranges from 10% of cats to 1/5000. There is obviously a lot to be learned about this disease still!

A number of risk factors may be involved in CoV transforming into FIP. Possible factors may include genetics and stress. However, there is really no way to predict what factors will interact in a single cat to produce FIP. Thus, there is always a risk. However, whenever you bring a cat into your home, there is some risk of a variety of illnesses and diseases eventually erupting. In my opinion, the risk with CoV is a risk worth taking if you can provide a good home for all of your cats.

Isolation of any new cats for a the first while is always a good idea anyway, but when it comes to FIP, I feel that it is not worth it to worry too much about it. I am not a vet or health expert; this is just my opinion and there are those out there who disagree. Thanks for taking the time to do the research and find out as much as possible.

I understand your panic and concern because my beloved Shadow passed just yesterday from FIP. My vet, Dr. Garcia, took the time to do a lot of research and showed it to me. The risk of FIP developing in the other cats is very small. Dr. Garcia does not routinely test for the corona virus because so many cats carry it and never develop the deadly mutation. They also do not use the vaccine because there is a significant risk that the vaccine will actually cause the deadly mutation. Dr. Garcia also put my mind at ease when he explained that after age 3 the chances of developing the deadly form of FIP is nearly nill. He also said that in his many years of practice he has only had one other case where FIP hit twice in the same household. And this was to sibling cats. A possible genetic connection to the mutation.
I am sorry if some of this is rambling as I am still very concerned about my other kitties also. But the news in encouraging.

My vet told me that if a cat has been sick at all, even just diarea chances are it will test positive for the corona virus. After I lost Tuffy to FIP I was worried about our other cats getting FIP. We talked about the vaccine for our other cats, but she checked into it and was told that if a cat tests positive for the corona virus that some specialists think the vaccine might help it turn into FIP not prevent it. So we have not done anything to the other cats, we didn't even test for the corona virus. We figured if any of them get FIP there isn't much that can be done about it anyway, so why worry about something that probably will never happen. After all I went through with poor little Tuffy and his FIP I don't want to sit and worry about which one of the others will get it next, Like the vet told me chances are real good none of the others will ever get FIP, and like I said before if one does there isn't much we can do about it anyway. I hope I don't sound to cold about all this, like I don't care because I really do, It tore me up watching what FIP did to my Tuffy.

This is my opinion only:

I would absolutely never have any of my cats given the FIP vaccine. Especially if they tested positive for exposure to the corona virus.

Vets don't know enough about this virus yet to even make more than a guess at positive diagnosis unles the cat is already dead and a necropsy is performed.

I'm not going to trust a vaccine that has been shown to cause the FIP disease in susceptible cats.

I think the scientists need to work on this awhile longer.

Originally Posted by mytoys2u

I'm trying really hard to find a home for the youngest two but I'm also worried that their leukemia test will show up positive since they've both received the vaccine. According to my vet, it's "worthless" to test for FELV since they've received the vaccine.

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Absolutely untrue that a cat vaccinated for FeLV will show a false positive. You are confusing it with the FIV vaccination. My vets also do not recommend vaccinating for FIV either. FIV is another highly misunderstood disease!!

Don't worry too much about the younger one that is showing signs of stress. If only 1 of 4 isn't adjusting quickly, then you are indeed very lucky!! I moved in April and some of my cats took months to adjust, and 1 of them is still pretty shaken by the move after 8 months!

I'm glad you found a cat specialist. Keep us posted on your progress please?

Originally Posted by booktigger

I wouldn't worry too much about high titre levels, FIP is actually quite rare, and as someone else said, if they dont get ill after the stress of a move, it is unlikely. And as for the bit about FeLV, why would you test if they are vaccinated? IF you wanted to adopt them out, you tell the new owners they are vaccinated.

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Cats vaccinated for FeLV can still contract it. I lost a cat that way.

A positive corona test doesn't mean *anything* other than the cat has been exposed to corona virus, which most cats have been exposed to. There is NO BLOOD TEST that has a useful predictive value for FIP. If any of your mother's cats died of FIP then you would have something to be worried about but failing that, you have no medical basis to be concerned.

Another way to look at it - once in a while someone who gets a cold will subsequently develop pneumonia, and some of them will actually die as a result. Does this mean you should worry about dieing if you get a cold? Rightly no, one should not, and no more should you worry that your cats will get FIP. Cats in FIP free homes and cats without FIP symptoms shouldn't even be tested for corona virus titers.

I want to thank everyone for their input. I am definitely NOT going to get the FIP vaccine for my two existing cats. My vet was so gung ho for using this vaccine and said there was "no downside at all" to using the vaccine. From everything I've read, I don't think that's the case at all. He also said that it was "very effective" and would prevent FIP. And, I DEFINITELY have not gotten that from the literature that I've read.

I'm just going to keep the cats segregated a while just to make sure they're all healthy. I had the vet run a complete blood work-up on all the cats and all of their blood tests came back great except for one that came back with an initial FIV+ result but they are running a Western Blot to verify (I have another post on this issue). I'm really praying that the Western Blot test comes back negative.

Originally Posted by stephenq

If any of your mother's cats died of FIP then you would have something to be worried about but failing that, you have no medical basis to be concerned.

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Actually my mom's household has a history of cats with long lives ... she had two cats that passed away over the last year. One cat was 23 years old and died at home with no apparent problems other than old age. The other cat was 15 years old and appeared to have had a stroke. My mom had both of these cats since they were babies and they lived with all the cats that I inherited.

Thanks again for everyone's input. I really appreciate it ... I just have to know that I have no guarantee on my kittens' health ... which I should know because I lost my beautiful black cat "Jessica" about 6 months ago. She had survived cancer (removal of her ear canal followed by radiation) only to die of a stroke a couple of months later (she had always had a slight heart murmur).

One of my Persian cats, Jake, was recently very sick. He went from around 10 lbs to 5.8 lbs in a very short time and got very yellow (Fatty liver). I didn't notice as fast as I should have. He just had so much fur it was deceiving. The vet was insistent on doing a battery of tests. Which is fine. But she absolutely made me feel like crap that I hadn't had any FIP Vaccinations since his originals when he was younger. She was convinced he had FIP. His tests all came back negative for FeLv etc... except one for corona virus. At least she told me that it really didn't mean anything except he had been exposed and that most cats are. My kitty had a weekend of IV's and antibiotics and started bouncing back quickly. After a week or so the vet called me back and said they did the wrong test (for FIP) and they wanted to do another but it is around $130. She was still convinced he had FIP even though he had already gained back about 3 lbs and was doing well. I did some research and ended up deciding against any further testing. I work in a large reference laboratory and the vet pathologist told me the test the vet wanted to do is totally useless. It was a DNA test. I guess some really believe in this test but he does not. He even had a bunch of research on his desk on it when I went in to see him. He said FIP is one of the most mis-diagnosed diseases and more cats are euthanized needlessly from the mis-diagnosis.

By the way, it's been 1 1/2 months and Jake is eating well and back up to 10 lbs. He's chasing a toy mouse as I sit here and climbing the cat condo! He still hasn't gotten all his fur back but it will take a few months. It looks like the vet pathologist at work was correct. He said he believed Jake got an inflammed bowel that led to stop eating eventually. I had tried to switch his food over the previous few months and it was apparently a really bad idea. I guess my point is that I would question strongly any diagnosis of corona virus/FIP. Guess I didn't really need to go through the whole story! Just felt like sharing it!

Originally Posted by mzjazz2u

One of my Persian cats, Jake, was recently very sick. He went from around 10 lbs to 5.8 lbs in a very short time and got very yellow (Fatty liver). I didn't notice as fast as I should have. He just had so much fur it was deceiving. The vet was insistent on doing a battery of tests. Which is fine. But she absolutely made me feel like crap that I hadn't had any FIP Vaccinations since his originals when he was younger. She was convinced he had FIP. His tests all came back negative for FeLv etc... except one for corona virus. At least she told me that it really didn't mean anything except he had been exposed and that most cats are. My kitty had a weekend of IV's and antibiotics and started bouncing back quickly. After a week or so the vet called me back and said they did the wrong test (for FIP) and they wanted to do another but it is around $130. She was still convinced he had FIP even though he had already gained back about 3 lbs and was doing well. I did some research and ended up deciding against any further testing. I work in a large reference laboratory and the vet pathologist told me the test the vet wanted to do is totally useless. It was a DNA test. I guess some really believe in this test but he does not. He even had a bunch of research on his desk on it when I went in to see him. He said FIP is one of the most mis-diagnosed diseases and more cats are euthanized needlessly from the mis-diagnosis.

By the way, it's been 1 1/2 months and Jake is eating well and back up to 10 lbs. He's chasing a toy mouse as I sit here and climbing the cat condo! He still hasn't gotten all his fur back but it will take a few months. It looks like the vet pathologist at work was correct. He said he believed Jake got an inflammed bowel that led to stop eating eventually. I had tried to switch his food over the previous few months and it was apparently a really bad idea. I guess my point is that I would question strongly any diagnosis of corona virus/FIP. Guess I didn't really need to go through the whole story!

Just felt like sharing it!

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Actually, none of the cats are symptomatic ... they all look to be perfectly healthy ... great weight, eat well, love to play, very active ... not one of the cats could be called remotely sick.

The vet was telling me that he had "really bad news" just because the FIP test came back positive for the corona virus ... even though they look to be healthy. That's when he made me feel like crap that I would introduce corona virus positive cats to a negative household (my cats tested negative in 1999 when I introduced two new cats to my one existing cat ... He tested the new cats as well as my old).

What I'm finding out that my cats may not have test "zero" on corona virus ... the results mean that they tested less than 1:100 titres according to his lab.

Two of the cats tested at 1:100 titres while the other at 1:400.

I was in a panic before finding this website and spending almost an entire day on the internet researching. My vet almost made it sound like a death sentence (though there is no guarantee that the virus won't mutate to FIP). That is when he wanted to vaccinated my two existing cats ... My stomach was just in knots with my vets comments and then all the contradictory information I was receiving.

I don't know if it was related, but all of Tuffy's blood work he ever had done always showed he was anemic and something about his red blood cells were smaller than normal. The specialist at the animal hospital was worried about this way before she narrowed it down to FIP. She didn't know it was FIP, but she came to that just before Tuffy died, She tested for anything she could test for that might be making him sick and all were negative, She has seen FIP a few times before and she was almost sure it was FIP that Tuffy had in the end. She said something about a experimental med for FIP being used in some other country but she didn't know if she could even get it in this country and how much it would cost if she could get some of it. Tuffy died before she could find out much about this new med. It is for cats that already have FIP, not preventing it. She said she made a note of Tuffy's blood work in that he was always anemic and the small blood cells just in case she runs into it again, as in more clues to maybe being FIP that is causing it.

The vet was telling me that he had "really bad news" just because the FIP test came back positive for the corona virus ... even though they look to be healthy.

Once again, there is no test for FIP and any vet who represents differently is wrong or lieing.

Originally Posted by stephenq

Once again, there is no test for FIP and any vet who represents differently is wrong or lieing.

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AMEN!

For me the fact that Tuffy had FIP and could not be helped much was bad enough, what really hurt was there is no test that says yes Tuffy has FIP and is going to die so spend as much time with him as you can ,instead of we don't know why he is so sick and we can't do anything to find out or help him.

I am not sorry I did all I could for Tuffy and spending ALLOT of money to try and help him, But if I could have been told ahead of time he has FIP and is going to die soon would have made it a little easier for me to except and Tuffy would not have had to endure all those tests as sick as he was.

Plus spending all that money at the end and still loosing Tuffy was hard to take, I would have spent twice as much if there was something to save Tuffy if he had some kind of treatable disease.

I have said it before, it was the hardest thing I ever had to do to watch Tuffy get so sick and not know why and not be able to help him much.

Sorry to get off topic a bit about the corona virus into a FIP topic.