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New Intelligence Chief fails terrorist quiz - Page 2

post #31 of 48
Thread Starter 
But DO the Muslims believe that God gave Israel to them, IS it in their Bible?
I thought Mecca was their Holiest place.

God giving Israel to the Hebrews predates Mohammad by hundreds if not thousands of years. What was Moses, around 1400 BC?
post #32 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
But DO the Muslims believe that God gave Israel to them, IS it in their Bible?
I thought Mecca was their Holiest place.

God giving Israel to the Hebrews predates Mohammad by hundreds if not thousands of years. What was Moses, around 1400 BC?
It isn't often that I agree with you, but in this case I agree with you 100%. I have nothing against Muslim's, but I believe Israel belongs to the Jews, and that should be respected by all nations, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm Jewish myself.
post #33 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeHacker View Post
It isn't often that I agree with you, but in this case I agree with you 100%. I have nothing against Muslim's, but I believe Israel belongs to the Jews, and that should be respected by all nations, and it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm Jewish myself.

I couldn't agree with you more Hope
post #34 of 48
Thread Starter 
Now Fatah and Hamas are fighting among themselves. Wow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6193193.stm
post #35 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Now Fatah and Hamas are fighting among themselves. Wow.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6193193.stm
Has WW III already started? My translators' class was discussing the subject today (we're working on a long article about the current situation in Bosnia). Lebanon seems to be on the brink of another civil war, Iraq already has one, the Taliban are making gains in Afghanistan, Chechnya is still a hotbed, there's trouble in Thailand, the Philippines, Indonesia, and, and, and.
post #36 of 48
I'm really confused, I always got the impression that the muslims lived there first, then after WW2 the west took land from them and gave it to the jewish people.
post #37 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I'm really confused, I always got the impression that the muslims lived there first, then after WW2 the west took land from them and gave it to the jewish people.
This is pretty much the impression I get too. And I don't believe that any religion can make a Biblical claim, but rather only a political claim to the land itself. God did give it to them (the Jews)at one time, but I don't think that stands anymore, just like many Old Testament laws don't stand anymore (for example, the Sabboth, eating kosher, etc)

That being said, now that the Israeli Jews have been there for 60 years (more than a generation) we can't really tell them to leave, we have to let them stay. They now have a right to exist as a country, whether the original placement of that country was fair and right or not. Hamas has been elected into power in Palestine and they will not accept any compromise. They will only accept no Israel. Israel, of course, cannot accept this.

I also think there is a lot of corruption in the Palestinian leadership that leads to economic problems plauging the Palestinian people.

Wrong has been committed on both sides, but for me the argument comes down to whether or not Isreal has a right to exist and I believe it does.
post #38 of 48
Thread Starter 
Sorry I don't agree. The land was given to the Hebrews and there was no time limit on it, it is forever. It still stands and always will IMO.
post #39 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I'm really confused, I always got the impression that the muslims lived there first, then after WW2 the west took land from them and gave it to the jewish people.
Islam did not "officially" begin until their prophet, Mohammed, began preaching in Mecca during the late 6th century AD. The Jewish religion dates back to the time of the Egyptions (4000 BC).
post #40 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sims2fan View Post
To be honest I don't buy this either. Suicide is contrary to the Quran as well, these idiots thinking they are going to heaven to be greeted by a million virgins or whatever are in for a shock. Jihad has become so misconstrued that even Muslims don't seem to know what it means anymore.

Ok I found this:

O ye who believe, remain steadfast for Allah, bearing witness to justice.

Do not allow your hatred for others make you swerve to wrongdoing and turn you away from justice.

Deal justly; that is closer to true piety.

- Surah al-Maidah (5:8)
http://www.islamicinvitationcentre.c...e/actions.html
OK, I do accept that...Jihad is controversal term in Islam. It does mean struggle and to defend the religion. Some Muslims believe that the defense should be done peacefully, without weapons.

I was thinking more along the lines of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. that Sayyid Qutb was originally a part of (who was an influence to people in Al-Qaeda, i.e. Osama bin Ladan, Mohammad Attma, etc).

They believe that Jihaad is through the power of the sword (aka using weapons in modern day)
post #41 of 48
Thread Starter 
I just barely caught the end of a news broadcast last night, but I believe they said that Al Qaeda has their own TV station now.

That is all we need, a Terrorist TV station.
post #42 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
Sorry I don't agree. The land was given to the Hebrews and there was no time limit on it, it is forever. It still stands and always will IMO.
Fair enough, we will just have to agree to disagree on that I still like you though
post #43 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by ckblv View Post
But DO the Muslims believe that God gave Israel to them, IS it in their Bible?
I thought Mecca was their Holiest place.

God giving Israel to the Hebrews predates Mohammad by hundreds if not thousands of years. What was Moses, around 1400 BC?
Not necessarily Israel. Yes, it is Mecca... like I said, one of the three holiest places. I'm no expert by any means, this is all from a couple weeks spent on the subject in High school years ago. Maybe you could do a little research on it and dig up interesting stuff.

As for God giving anything to anybody.... there is absolutely no way to have a rational argument about anything when one of the person's answers is God. It also shouldn't be the basis for the fates of millions of people. When two warring enemies both believe that the same God is on their side, can they both be right?

As for "jihad" the way it has been explained to me is that the word is pretty similar to proselytizing in Christianity. They are supposed to convert as many people as they can, just like most Christians are. And it is very sad that some people choose to use force, or try to... just like Christians have in the none-too-distant past. IMO, most terrorist leaders are using religion as a tool to manipulate the people doing their bidding. In a lot of places, the only schools that exist are run my terrorist organizations and they are extremely religious and then the people running it later use the strong faith of the students to make them commit terrorist acts in the name of God. There isn't anything inherently wrong with any religion, only in the people who exploit and misuse it.
post #44 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
IMO, most terrorist leaders are using religion as a tool to manipulate the people doing their bidding.
Yes, you don't see many of the terrorist leaders volunteering to the blow themselves up in the local marketplace, do you? That's where this whole thing of blowing yourself up for your faith gets a little unbelievable for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou'sMom View Post
In a lot of places, the only schools that exist are run my terrorist organizations and they are extremely religious and then the people running it later use the strong faith of the students to make them commit terrorist acts in the name of God. There isn't anything inherently wrong with any religion, only in the people who exploit and misuse it.
Are you talking about Madrassas? If so, that's a myth. I'll look for a link if needs be, but if my memory serves me correctly, only 1% of known terrorists attended and graduated from a Madrassa. Again, if I remember the stats correctly, 48% of the known terrorists actually graduated from a Western University.
post #45 of 48
No, I'm not sure what Madrassa is, but from what I can find all it means is a religious schoolhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madrasah I am talking about the elementary-type schools in rural villages that are sort-of-unofficially operated by fringe extremists and that promote the use of violence, and many of their graduates go on to training camps.
post #46 of 48
OK...that makes sense. Most terrorists have a greater influence to the rural communities so I could see that.

I know that's a common misconception for Madrassa, that they're "...incubators for violent terrorism" told to us originally by the 9/11 commission. (9/11 Commission Report (about 1/4 of the way down under "Pakistan".
A madrassa just refers to "school". It is mostly a religious school, but it can also refer to a day school, boarding school, etc where the basics of teaching are taught/learned. Mohammad teachings basically said that he wanted children taught by age 7. If they weren't passing or not learning b y age 10 then he is to be beaten (but not violently as what we think of beating...like a light slap on the back of the hand).
post #47 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by lunasmom View Post
Yes, you don't see many of the terrorist leaders volunteering to the blow themselves up in the local marketplace, do you? That's where this whole thing of blowing yourself up for your faith gets a little unbelievable for me.



Are you talking about Madrassas? If so, that's a myth. I'll look for a link if needs be, but if my memory serves me correctly, only 1% of known terrorists attended and graduated from a Madrassa. Again, if I remember the stats correctly, 48% of the known terrorists actually graduated from a Western University.
48% and some say we dont need to control our borders???
post #48 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
48% and some say we dont need to control our borders???
OK I just double checked my notes.

"Of the 15 known terrorists that participated in the 9/11, the London bombings, the Bali night club, etc, only 1 attended a Madrassa, Osama bin Ladan. Zero graduated from a Madrassa....11 attended a Western University.
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