Tiffany, are you getting your bengal from Pam? I recall you mentioning a breeder in Montana.
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Orange Marbled Bengal?
- Thread starter siameseohio
- Start Date
Not quite, but close
No I don't know Stacy, but I've heard of her cattery and seen pictures of Sxnu. He's definitely drop dead gorgeous. Congrats on getting one of his babies.Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt
Not quite, but closeAres' dad is Cheetahsden Sxnu of Rockymeountain (one of the most gorgeous marbles I've ever seen!) I got Ares from Stacy. Do you know her?
You've heard good things I hope!Originally Posted by Kai Bengals
No I don't know Stacy, but I've heard of her cattery and seen pictures of Sxnu. He's definitely drop dead gorgeous. Congrats on getting one of his babies.
Why wouldn't 'they' (not sure if they is the breeders or the cat assns) want bengals like that orange marbled one? Is it because someone decided what the accepted colors are? I can kinda see the black bengals not being as accepted because you can't see the markings, but you can sure see the marbling on that orange kitty! I'm just asking out of curiosity. It is a very pretty cat, so do you think someday if enough breeders petition or something it could become an accepted color? How does stuff like that get changed, or does it ever? I ask a lot of questions don't I?
It is just so interesting!!!!!
This issue came up not long ago on a bengals e-mail list. Rufousing is desired for a lot of breeders (like the cat in the link) but the 'orange' marble in the original pictures is not a genetically 'brown' cat like a rufoused cat would be. Bengals come in a lot of colors (black (melanistic), blue, red, tortie, chocolate, etc.) These are not a part of the breed standard though. In TICA, the breeders pretty much decide what will be included in the standard and what will not. Keep in mind that the bengal breed is relatively new when compared to other breeds, so the standard is still 'under construction'. Initially only Brown Spotted Tabbies were accepted. Then a lot of people (including the breeds founder Jean Mill) pushed for marbles to be accepted. Then snows and most recently silvers (and thank goodness that happend, because if it hadn't, we here wouldn't be graced with the presence of lovely Jack!) So its possible that 'orange' bengals could be added to the standard, but there will undoubtedly be a LOT of resistance among current breeders (as was evidenced on that list I mentioned). But marbles, snows and silvers all faced some pretty strong opposition as well (and they still do to this day).Originally Posted by Telynn
Why wouldn't 'they' (not sure if they is the breeders or the cat assns) want bengals like that orange marbled one? Is it because someone decided what the accepted colors are? I can kinda see the black bengals not being as accepted because you can't see the markings, but you can sure see the marbling on that orange kitty! I'm just asking out of curiosity. It is a very pretty cat, so do you think someday if enough breeders petition or something it could become an accepted color? How does stuff like that get changed, or does it ever? I ask a lot of questions don't I?It is just so interesting!!!!!
One of the main goals (if not THE main goal) of the bengal breed is to reproduce the look of a 'small forest dwelling cat' with the temperament of a domestic cat. Since you won't find many 'orange' small forest dwelling cats in the wild, thats one major strike against it. For marbles there is the marble cat, the clouded leopard, the ocelot, the king cheetah, etc. For snows and silvers, there are the snow leopards. Theres even a push for melanistics being accepted because of the black panthers.
Another strike against orange cats is that it may be VERY difficult to prove what benefits it will bring to the genetic pool of the bengal lines today. Again, with marbles the argument was that marbles would produce bigger rosettes (large open spotting) and better horizontal flow in the spotted cats. For silvers, the idea is that they bring in clearer coats (like the 'goldens' which is a whole other topic). These ideas are strongly debated, but they did help to get them accepted into the breed standard (and boy am I glad!)
You're right, its VERY interesting. I'm not a breeder and I'm a n00b to the bengal world, but I've been reading and asking tons of questions on the breed non-stop for some months now. Nial (Kai Bengals) has been doing this much longer than I have, and he can come in and correct me where I'm wrong (which may well be the case
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #27
Once again totally facinating. It looks like red/orange Bengals have an uphill battle.
Since they aren't able to be shown, it totally makes since why someone wouldn't want to add them into a breeding program. However for a pet, it really wouldn't matter. I guess if I breed bengals (which obviously I don't, nor am I remotely qualified to do), I'd probably steer away from them as well.
With that said, I think they are beautiful animals, and all the more interesting because in all of my googling about Bengals, I've never seen any until now.
Since they aren't able to be shown, it totally makes since why someone wouldn't want to add them into a breeding program. However for a pet, it really wouldn't matter. I guess if I breed bengals (which obviously I don't, nor am I remotely qualified to do), I'd probably steer away from them as well.
With that said, I think they are beautiful animals, and all the more interesting because in all of my googling about Bengals, I've never seen any until now.
Well said Tiffany.....I have nothing significant to add, other than I truly believe we would not see the ultra rosetted, knock your socks off spotted bengals we have today, if it weren't for marbles. We've always had marbles in our program..it only makes sense!Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt
This issue came up not long ago on a bengals e-mail list. Rufousing is desired for a lot of breeders (like the cat in the link) but the 'orange' marble in the original pictures is not a genetically 'brown' cat like a rufoused cat would be. Bengals come in a lot of colors (black (melanistic), blue, red, tortie, chocolate, etc.) These are not a part of the breed standard though. In TICA, the breeders pretty much decide what will be included in the standard and what will not. Keep in mind that the bengal breed is relatively new when compared to other breeds, so the standard is still 'under construction'. Initially only Brown Spotted Tabbies were accepted. Then a lot of people (including the breeds founder Jean Mill) pushed for marbles to be accepted. Then snows and most recently silvers (and thank goodness that happend, because if it hadn't, we here wouldn't be graced with the presence of lovely Jack!) So its possible that 'orange' bengals could be added to the standard, but there will undoubtedly be a LOT of resistance among current breeders (as was evidenced on that list I mentioned). But marbles, snows and silvers all faced some pretty strong opposition as well (and they still do to this day).
One of the main goals (if not THE main goal) of the bengal breed is to reproduce the look of a 'small forest dwelling cat' with the temperament of a domestic cat. Since you won't find many 'orange' small forest dwelling cats in the wild, thats one major strike against it. For marbles there is the marble cat, the clouded leopard, the ocelot, the king cheetah, etc. For snows and silvers, there are the snow leopards. Theres even a push for melanistics being accepted because of the black panthers.
Another strike against orange cats is that it may be VERY difficult to prove what benefits it will bring to the genetic pool of the bengal lines today. Again, with marbles the argument was that marbles would produce bigger rosettes (large open spotting) and better horizontal flow in the spotted cats. For silvers, the idea is that they bring in clearer coats (like the 'goldens' which is a whole other topic). These ideas are strongly debated, but they did help to get them accepted into the breed standard (and boy am I glad!)
You're right, its VERY interesting. I'm not a breeder and I'm a n00b to the bengal world, but I've been reading and asking tons of questions on the breed non-stop for some months now. Nial (Kai Bengals) has been doing this much longer than I have, and he can come in and correct me where I'm wrong (which may well be the case) Anyhow, ask away, because the more you ask, the more we all learn!
I also believe the silver genes are helping with the "goldens". But I do have what I believe is a true golden boy out of a brown spotted X brown marbled mating. No silvers in the lines.
I think the next decade in bengal development is going to be very interesting and fun. Especially if we can start doing genetic testing at a reasonable cost.
Who's your "golden boy" Nial?
I think its already fun and exciting (can't you tell) but I agree that its going to get even more fun and exciting and I want to tag along for the ride.
I would love to breed cats, but I don't have the time at all. I also have way too many other 'projects' to work on, and I don't know if I could handle the spraying or the losses... oh, and giving kittens to their new homes would be an issue for me because I KNOW I'm too selfish to let them all go.
So instead I live vicariously through people like you and Gaye
Keep up the good work!
I think its already fun and exciting (can't you tell) but I agree that its going to get even more fun and exciting and I want to tag along for the ride.
I would love to breed cats, but I don't have the time at all. I also have way too many other 'projects' to work on, and I don't know if I could handle the spraying or the losses... oh, and giving kittens to their new homes would be an issue for me because I KNOW I'm too selfish to let them all go.
So instead I live vicariously through people like you and Gaye
His name is Sudden Impact. I don't have an up-to-date photo of him that shows off his colors in natural light, but here is an older photo of him at about 3 months.
He's 5.5 months now and one of our show cats. In fact he's going with us to the Alabama show with Jack. This will be his second show, we are expecting him to do well.
This picture is good but it doesn't show his amazing golden background as well as I'd like. You'd have to see him in person....his pelt and coloring is amazing. He's out of Regent X Penny(the marble girl). Marbles produce the best spotted kittens!
WOW! At only three months in that pic he looks amazing. He really does look like a 'little leopard'. Believe me, I wish I could see him in person too. This really isn't fair! I want a spotted bengal too (now more than ever)
*sigh*
Good luck in Alabama. It looks like you've got your work cut out for you, but I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun. Take a bunch of pics and let us know how they do.
BTW, I'm going to my first ever show this weekend too. Not showing, but taking tons of pics if I can get away with it. Hopefully I'll see a few bengals.
*sigh*
Good luck in Alabama. It looks like you've got your work cut out for you, but I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun. Take a bunch of pics and let us know how they do.
BTW, I'm going to my first ever show this weekend too. Not showing, but taking tons of pics if I can get away with it. Hopefully I'll see a few bengals.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #32
What a beautiful kitty. I just can't wait to see a Bengal in person. I believe what Sudden Impact has is the rosette spots. I love the multi-color spots. They add so much interest.
Sudden Impact is gorgeous!
Thank you all for the answers. I can understand the idea that bengals are supposed to look like wild cats and you really don't see any cats that orange color (red pandas, maybe
). But there is definetly snow and silvers in the wild. My very favorite wild cat is the snow leopard. Now if you can get a domestic cat with a tail like that, I would love you forever!
Thank you all for the answers. I can understand the idea that bengals are supposed to look like wild cats and you really don't see any cats that orange color (red pandas, maybe
Kai,
His coloring almost reminds me of a chocolate shading color. Possible?
His coloring almost reminds me of a chocolate shading color. Possible?
Check out this site:Originally Posted by Telynn
Sudden Impact is gorgeous!
Thank you all for the answers. I can understand the idea that bengals are supposed to look like wild cats and you really don't see any cats that orange color (red pandas, maybe). But there is definetly snow and silvers in the wild. My very favorite wild cat is the snow leopard. Now if you can get a domestic cat with a tail like that, I would love you forever!
http://www.bengal-cat.net/SNOW BENGAL.htm
I personally think marble bengals have better realized the tail patterns of the leopard cats. If you scroll down on that page, you'll see what I'm talking about.
Oh yeah, Blithe (the snow marble in the middle of the page) is my Ares' mommy
That, Dear, is a loaded question!
To put it as simply as I know how, a silver is any bengal (be it brown spotted tabby or seal lynx point marble or anything inbetween) with the silver inhibitor (I) gene. Its dominant so it overrides any other color.
Snow is a generic term for a pale colored bengal cat. There is the seal lynx point, which has blue eyes and is almost solid white at birth. Then theres the sepia and the mink, which have teal/green/amber eyes and darker markings from birth.
As for how to tell the difference between a 'silver snow' and a 'seal lynx point snow' and a 'seal sepia snow' and a 'seal mink snow', I really don't know.
Look here for a GREAT example of a silver:
http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=106018
Heres an orange marble bengal thats in rescue right now. Mom is a purebred spotted bengal. Dad is unknown.
Guess they're more common than originally thought, huh?
I just wonder where the red bengals are coming from if they are not desirable in the breed? This is the first I've heard of them.
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- #40
Here are some other examples in these kittens.
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ngekittens.jpg
http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ngekittens.jpg
