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Orange Marbled Bengal? - Page 2

post #31 of 64
WOW! At only three months in that pic he looks amazing. He really does look like a 'little leopard'. Believe me, I wish I could see him in person too. This really isn't fair! I want a spotted bengal too (now more than ever)

*sigh*

Good luck in Alabama. It looks like you've got your work cut out for you, but I'm sure it'll be a lot of fun. Take a bunch of pics and let us know how they do.

BTW, I'm going to my first ever show this weekend too. Not showing, but taking tons of pics if I can get away with it. Hopefully I'll see a few bengals.
post #32 of 64
Thread Starter 
What a beautiful kitty. I just can't wait to see a Bengal in person. I believe what Sudden Impact has is the rosette spots. I love the multi-color spots. They add so much interest.
post #33 of 64
Sudden Impact is gorgeous!

Thank you all for the answers. I can understand the idea that bengals are supposed to look like wild cats and you really don't see any cats that orange color (red pandas, maybe ). But there is definetly snow and silvers in the wild. My very favorite wild cat is the snow leopard. Now if you can get a domestic cat with a tail like that, I would love you forever!

post #34 of 64
Kai,

His coloring almost reminds me of a chocolate shading color. Possible?
post #35 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
Sudden Impact is gorgeous!

Thank you all for the answers. I can understand the idea that bengals are supposed to look like wild cats and you really don't see any cats that orange color (red pandas, maybe ). But there is definetly snow and silvers in the wild. My very favorite wild cat is the snow leopard. Now if you can get a domestic cat with a tail like that, I would love you forever!

Check out this site:

http://www.bengal-cat.net/SNOW%20BENGAL.htm

I personally think marble bengals have better realized the tail patterns of the leopard cats. If you scroll down on that page, you'll see what I'm talking about.

Oh yeah, Blithe (the snow marble in the middle of the page) is my Ares' mommy
post #36 of 64
Beautiful. What is the difference between a snow and a silver?
post #37 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Telynn View Post
Beautiful. What is the difference between a snow and a silver?
That, Dear, is a loaded question!

To put it as simply as I know how, a silver is any bengal (be it brown spotted tabby or seal lynx point marble or anything inbetween) with the silver inhibitor (I) gene. Its dominant so it overrides any other color.

Snow is a generic term for a pale colored bengal cat. There is the seal lynx point, which has blue eyes and is almost solid white at birth. Then theres the sepia and the mink, which have teal/green/amber eyes and darker markings from birth.

As for how to tell the difference between a 'silver snow' and a 'seal lynx point snow' and a 'seal sepia snow' and a 'seal mink snow', I really don't know.

Look here for a GREAT example of a silver:

http://www.thecatsite.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=106018
post #38 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by siameseohio View Post
I saw an orange marbled Bengal. I've never seen or heard of one before. Is there a reason why they aren't more common? Or are they not uncommon, and I just wasn't aware of it?
Heres an orange marble bengal thats in rescue right now. Mom is a purebred spotted bengal. Dad is unknown.





Guess they're more common than originally thought, huh?
post #39 of 64
I just wonder where the red bengals are coming from if they are not desirable in the breed? This is the first I've heard of them.
post #40 of 64
Thread Starter 
Here are some other examples in these kittens.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...ngekittens.jpg
post #41 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt View Post
Heres an orange marble bengal thats in rescue right now. Mom is a purebred spotted bengal. Dad is unknown.





Guess they're more common than originally thought, huh?
The sire is probably a red classic tabby DSH in the case of this kitten. I hope the rescue is informing potential adopters that this kitten is a cross.
post #42 of 64
I was going to say that the kitty's pattern looked more like my former foster Toby's and he is a DSH.
post #43 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45 View Post
I just wonder where the red bengals are coming from if they are not desirable in the breed? This is the first I've heard of them.
The mom is a rescue. I'm pretty sure the pregnancy was an accident. I don't think anyone is intentionally breeding them... Not anyone serious about breeding anyway.

Nial, yes, the rescue is informing them that the cats are a mix and the father is unknown.
post #44 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sims2fan View Post
I was going to say that the kitty's pattern looked more like my former foster Toby's and he is a DSH.
Marble bengals are classic tabbys bred to get rid of the bulls eye and circular pattern (amongst other things). I saw an ASH at the show this past weekend that was a classic tabby. It looked like a lot of bengals I've seen out there (unfortunately for bengals).

Heres a link to what classic tabbys should look like (scroll down):

http://www.seregiontica.org/Colors/tabby/tabbies.htm

The pattern is very round and almost vertical (going from the cats spine to its belly). Its one circle (surrounded by a ring of circles) stationed right in the middle of the cats side.

Marble bengals should have more of a horizontal (from the cats head to its tail) flow to the pattern.

Heres a really good example:

http://www.zendadacats.com/module-pn...temId-737.html

You can see how the pattern is all broken up. (this is one of my favorite marbles, btw ) There was also a site connected to this that had pics of different marbles and gave good explanations on the different patterns, but I can't find it. I've asked the owner of the site about it, so I'll post it when they get back to me.

Heres a link to one of the best marbles (if not the best) ever produced:

http://www.junglebookbengals.com/reference.html

Scroll down to Nola Voodoo Magic and click on the picture for a larger view. THATS what a marble should look like.
post #45 of 64
I'm hoping this suggests a difference of opinion/personal taste as opposed to me going for cats that don't exactly fit the standard, or even me being unable to find the marble you meant but I prefer the more mahogany coloured ones
http://www.rockybengals.com/upcoming_queens.htm
Which are more swirly as opposed to circles of colour, even if they aren't quite as perfect. Is it just the more bullseye type markings the better? Or am I being completely clueless again
A little ot but, I looked on their site and while a lot of them have siblings and parents that are champions and grand champions not many of the cats themselves are. Is this bad? Is it because a lot of foundations are used?
post #46 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
A little ot but, I looked on their site and while a lot of them have siblings and parents that are champions and grand champions not many of the cats themselves are. Is this bad? Is it because a lot of foundations are used?
Which site? The one you gave or the one I gave? It may just be that the cats being used in the breeding program are still young?

Also, if a cat has great type and a wonderful pattern and a great temperament, but has a kink in its tail, a breeder may look over that and still use that cat in their program. If the cat didn't have a kink, it might be a stunning show cat. Also, some cats just don't like the show ring, no matter how great of an example of the breed standard they may be.
post #47 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I'm hoping this suggests a difference of opinion/personal taste as opposed to me going for cats that don't exactly fit the standard, or even me being unable to find the marble you meant but I prefer the more mahogany coloured ones
http://www.rockybengals.com/upcoming_queens.htm
Which are more swirly as opposed to circles of colour, even if they aren't quite as perfect. Is it just the more bullseye type markings the better? Or am I being completely clueless again
The less bullseye, the better.

Know whats funny? I'm getting my marble from that cattery you just linked to! (I posted pics of him in this thread)

http://www.rockybengals.com/blithe_kits.htm

I think most of those cats are related to my Ares!

For the record, I think this cattery has some of the best marbles being bred right now, but I didn't want to seem biased by posting it

*to find Nola Voodoo Magic, scroll down to the Centerwall line (third cat). He's the sire of a lot of the cats on that page, so searching his name won't give you much.
post #48 of 64
I completely forgot to say, it was the nola voodoo magic. I thought maybe bad photo? It looked kinda grainy to me.
post #49 of 64
Oh cool! I'm not a ditz then! I found their site before and thought they all were amazing and really comitted to producing the best marble type. I take back any unsureness as to their excellence
post #50 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
I completely forgot to say, it was the nola voodoo magic. I thought maybe bad photo? It looked kinda grainy to me.

Voodoo is a 'ticky' cat, and thats the only picture I've ever seen of him, but he's quite the legend in 'bengal lore' I don't know what his 'type' is like, but you can't really see any bullseye pattern on him. His pattern is totally unique!
post #51 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by cata_mint View Post
Oh cool! I'm not a ditz then! I found their site before and thought they all were amazing and really comitted to producing the best marble type. I take back any unsureness as to their excellence
This is Ares' dad. If Ares turns out like this, I'll be one happy camper!

http://www.rockybengals.com/sxnu.htm

*wait a minute! I already couldn't be happier!!!
post #52 of 64
Thread Starter 
o.k. well I guess we can chalk this up to my ignorance in what the desired breed standard is, but I totally don't get the nala voodoo magic pattern. He doesn't look marbled to me.

I much prefer Ares' dad. I think he is beautiful, and his marbling actually looks like marbling. That statement makes sense to me.

Nala voodoo magic doesn't look marbled to me at all. It looks like something between spots and marbles. I can say that I've never seen any thing like it.

I guess everyone has their preference and taste. I'd like to think mine leans toward the preferred standard, but maybe not. Oh well.
post #53 of 64
Thats what I meant by bulls eyes where i now realise i didnt mean bullseyes at all.
Basically i agree completely with siameseohio
post #54 of 64
The marble bengal has a long way to go to achieve perfection, but I think things are progressing rather well and some of the marbles being produced today are just amazing. Our program is more heavily focused on the spotted bengals, but we do utilize marbles.

This is a girl (Minnie) of our breeding that we produced about 5 years ago. Her great great grandfather is Nola Voodoo Magic.


Top view of Minnie


This is a girl (Penny) of our breeding that we produced about 1.5 years ago.



Here are 2 links to what a lot of us would like the marbles to look like pattern wise someday.

Clouded Leopard Images

Clouded Leopard
post #55 of 64
Thread Starter 
Alright, with the examples you've given Nial I have a better understanding of what breeders are shooting for in the marble pattern. And I do see how nala voodoo magic is similar to the links you posted.

The wild cats that you gave as examples are beautiful, however as you already know, I think Penny is fabulous. And if I could choose, I'd rather have a cat that looks like Penny.

I do get it that the objective is to get patterns that closely simulate those patterns that occur naturally in the wild. So I guess this answers my question to myself--My preference in marbled Bengals isn't what the breed standard goal is. I can live with it.
post #56 of 64
Wow Nial! Minnie is STUNNING!!! I can see the Voodoo influence on her! Ares and Snxu have Voodoo in their pedigree as well.

Voodoo was used a lot, and many bengals today have him in their pedigree. Also, many bengals (including my Ares and Nials' Minnie) can trace their pedigree back to the Centerwall Asian Leopard Cats. These were the first used in the creation of the Bengal breed. Theres a pic of them at the top of this link (and if you scroll down, you'll see the prolific Voodoo again)

http://www.hdw-inc.com/ancestorsnew2.htm#centerwall

Nial, I was going to post a link to Penny to show her horizontal alignment, but I think I brag on your cats too much.

Penny has great contrast and a very clear coat. While I think the ticky coats have a certain wild appeal to them, I'll take a clear coated cat any day!

Its hard to tell from pictures, but does Penny have glitter in her coat?
post #57 of 64
I would think that a red bengal could be possible....but I wouldn put any trust into a breeder who was purpousfully breeding them. Breed standards were created for a reason....animals who don't fit the standards aren't "rare"....they are "substandard"(not as pets however).

People are still creating F1 hybrids using domestic cats (usually domestic bengals) and ALC's. I have seen some breeders use maincoon's to cross into a serval or ALC and I am going to assume that a red recessive trait could be traced back in the pedigree to the type of domestic cat that was used in an origional outcross. It is certinially not an ALC trait...and not a trait that a responsible breeder would breed for. That being said I would never pay 2,500 dollars for a non-standard common orange tabby when I could go down to my local pound and pick one up off of death row for little more then the costs of shots, neuter, and health care exc. I wouldn't encourage such irrisponsible breeding practises when similar cats are dying by the millons.
post #58 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by siameseohio View Post
Alright, with the examples you've given Nial I have a better understanding of what breeders are shooting for in the marble pattern. And I do see how nala voodoo magic is similar to the links you posted.

The wild cats that you gave as examples are beautiful, however as you already know, I think Penny is fabulous. And if I could choose, I'd rather have a cat that looks like Penny.

I do get it that the objective is to get patterns that closely simulate those patterns that occur naturally in the wild. So I guess this answers my question to myself--My preference in marbled Bengals isn't what the breed standard goal is. I can live with it.
Tracey, I do understand what you're saying and with the diversity in "looks" of the marble bengals today, it's kind of difficult to conclusively say what looks best and what should be the ultimate breed standard.
If I had my druthers, I would prefer a combination of Minnie and Penny. I love Penny's horizontal flow and DEPTH of color. I also love Minnie's chaining pattern and her velvet tapestry appearance. And, if you'll notice those rosettes on her rump.....those are what I want on my spotted. These marbles have so much to offer a spotted program.
I know we've got a long way to go before the marble standard is set in stone. This is definitely a work in progress. In the mean time we all get to enjoy the beautiful bengals that come from all the hard work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt View Post
Wow Nial! Minnie is STUNNING!!! I can see the Voodoo influence on her! Ares and Snxu have Voodoo in their pedigree as well.

Voodoo was used a lot, and many bengals today have him in their pedigree. Also, many bengals (including my Ares and Nials' Minnie) can trace their pedigree back to the Centerwall Asian Leopard Cats. These were the first used in the creation of the Bengal breed. Theres a pic of them at the top of this link (and if you scroll down, you'll see the prolific Voodoo again)

http://www.hdw-inc.com/ancestorsnew2.htm#centerwall

Nial, I was going to post a link to Penny to show her horizontal alignment, but I think I brag on your cats too much.

Penny has great contrast and a very clear coat. While I think the ticky coats have a certain wild appeal to them, I'll take a clear coated cat any day!

Its hard to tell from pictures, but does Penny have glitter in her coat?
Tiffany,
Thanks for the compliments on Minnie and Penny. As always, you are very kind!
Minnie for sure has the Voodoo influence on her, especially the chaining and right behind the front leg. When Minnie was born and a day old, my wife and I were astonished.....I think we both said at the same time...."this kitten is staying!"
We named her Minnie Chained Melody.
I do like the way Voodoo looks, he has wonderful chaining down his back.

Now, Picasso's Penchant, aka Penny has plenty of glitter and her pelt is like
liquid glass. No ticking what-so-ever. She's a huge girl and her color depth is crazy. Her problem is that she still retains the dreaded "C". But I'm ok with it, because she has the rest of the package.
Eventually we'll be able to virtually eliminate the problem areas and get where we want to be with these marbles. I hope all the breeders can keep in mind, that it doesn't matter how pretty the cat is and how closely it resembles the breed standard, if it's not healthy and isn't a sweet companion animal.
I have my goals in mind, but I still think it's most important to ensure all our bengals exhibit first and foremost the amazing bengal personality.
To me, this is what makes this breed the most special.

Last but not least...Tiffany....I don't mind you braggin' on my cats at all...please do....and I appreciate it very much! Thank-you!
post #59 of 64
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Bengals View Post
Now, Picasso's Penchant, aka Penny has plenty of glitter and her pelt is like liquid glass. No ticking what-so-ever. She's a huge girl and her color depth is crazy. Her problem is that she still retains the dreaded "C". But I'm ok with it, because she has the rest of the package.
I tried to figure out what the "dreaded "C"" was before I asked, but I couldn't figure it out. Could someone tell me what it is? I graciously thank you.
post #60 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by siameseohio View Post
I tried to figure out what the "dreaded "C"" was before I asked, but I couldn't figure it out. Could someone tell me what it is? I graciously thank you.
I've taken the same picture, inverted it and highlighted the "C" pattern, that we're all trying to eliminate. It's a remaining element of the bulls-eye pattern that the classic tabby has.

I hope this picture explains it a bit.

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