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Bengal Q

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 
I am kitten shoping. I am wondering about the Bengals? Why are they not on the CFA list of breeds? I dont mean to be as stupid as i sound. My Ragdoll died recently. ( she was part rag and not purebred, 15 yrs of happiness we gave each other) . I am thinking that For this one time in my life I want a purebred cat. I did find info on Ocicats but not Bengals and they seem to be so popular in the Cat Fancy magizine that i get?

All my other cats are shelter gotten cats.

TY
post #2 of 23
Bengal s are hybrids .... CFA doesnt regonize the breed TICA does... I will let the experts help you further
post #3 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sharky View Post
Bengal s are hybrids .... CFA doesnt regonize the breed TICA does... I will let the experts help you further
Thanks, that pretty much answers my question.
post #4 of 23
From my understanding, there's a lot more to it than just the fact that they are 'hybrids'. Also, the definition of hybrid is a bit ambiguous. Any pedigreed cat that is outcrossed to another breed has offspring that are hybrids. I think the official reason that CFA doesn't accept bengals is because they have 'wild blood'. I've also heard that in the begining of the breeds history some bengals caused some trouble at a show and it was blamed on the 'wild blood' and now I guess all bengals are considered to be like that. Its unfortunately a common misconception that bengals are wild and unmanageable. I personall think they're sweet

If you want to know more about bengals, check out this site:
http://www.bengalcat.com/main.aspx

I recently adopted a bengal kitten from a breeder. He'll be home in a few weeks and I SUPER excited! Also, check out Kai Bengals "Jack" threads
post #5 of 23
Tiffany is correct in that CFA doesn't want to include breeds that have any content of "wild" blood. Since bengal cats were developed using the Asian Leopard Cat, CFA considers all bengals to have wild blood.

In reality all stud book tradition bengals (4th generation and higher) have an extremely low and diluted amount of wild blood in them, but CFA is sticking to their guns. Which is fine, every other cat registry on the planet that I know of, accepts and embraces bengals.

I can only speak for my own bengals, but they are all sweet well mannered cats with huge personalities. This is typical for the breed and you will find that most bengal cats fit my description.
But, as happens with any breed, there will be some breeders who don't socialize their kittens. These kittens grow up fearful, exhibiting fear-aggression and a variety of other behavior problems. This is not the bengal's fault, it's the idiot breeder. Sadly once the damage is done, it's a long hard process to reverse it. This is true with any breed of cat that is not properly socialized at a young age.
When the public sees or learns of the oddball bengal cat misbehaving, it's easy to label it as "wild" and unmanageable. It has wild blood therefore it's unpredictable and dangerous.
This is all nonsense. The cat was simply not socialized and behaves no differently than a feral cat. Not many will label a feral moggie as "wild, unpredictable and unmanageable" and then blame that fact on all the mixed genes it carries, or even single out a gene to blame.
I've seen far more Abby's, Maine Coon's and Household Pets act up in the showhall than I have bengals. At the last show, a woman ended up bleeding profusely with huge gashes in her arms and neck, because her household pet freaked out on the way back from a show ring.

Bengal breeders have worked extra extra hard to make sure we breed for the very best temperaments, just to overcome the stigma.
I never clip my cats claws back unless they are being benched at a show, and I am fully comfortable with letting any stranger that walks into my home handle any of my cats with no fear that a cat will lash out for any reason.
I've even had 2 and 3 year old toddlers, so enthused with petting the cats, that they got a little rough....my cats reaction was to cringe, but they didn't flee and certainly didn't do anything to retaliate. They just look to us to rescue them.
I have to say, I'm very proud of this breed and how docile and easy going they are. They are not lap cats, but they are gentle and sweet with their humans.
post #6 of 23
If you like the spotted breeds and want to show in any association, then go with the egyptian maus or the ocicats. The rest of the spotted breeds were created using some kind of original wild cat.

We are getting an ocicat (can't wait) cause my husband thinks they look like little leopards but were created with 100% domestic cats (abys, siamese, american sh).

We're getting a chocolate spotted male
post #7 of 23
I LOVE Bengal's. They have such delightful personalities. They can be active, and playful, but you will NEVER be board with a Bengal in the house.
post #8 of 23
I was reading the CFA breed profile for Ocicats today.

http://cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/ocicat.html

I think this is unfair and misleading. To say that ocicats are "the only spotted domestic breed selectively bred to emulate the cats of the wild." is just not true. Much of what this article has to say about the breed is paralleled in the bengal profile of other registries. The ironic part is that ocicats and bengals share a lot of the same ancestors (namely from the Dalai lines, which is the founding line for ocicats).

Ocicats are beautiful cats in their own respect. I might have considered owning one if I weren't so enamored by bengals. The best examples of both breeds are stunning, but they definitely have different looks to them and different goals toward their respective looks as well. As for temperament, there really is no difference.

I just think this kind of article is irresponsible on behalf of the CFA and promotes a negative image of the organization.
post #9 of 23
Tiff,

At the time, the ocicats were the only ones created to look like wild cats. Ocis were only using domestic cats - not any wild cats. Now there are more breeds created to look like the wild cats. I don't feel its misleading at all.

The biggest difference is that the ocicats were an accidental surprise - it was unexpected that the kittens were spotted out of the siamese/aby crosses. Whereas the bengals were delibertly created.

Another side note; its been found that the siamese may be carrying the spotted tabby genetics - some siamese at that time (1960's) showed ghost spotting in the body. It was later bred out of the lines, but they may be genetically a spotted tabby and that's why the ocicat came out a spotted kitten when crossing the two breeds.
post #10 of 23
Its my understanding that the development of bengals and ocicats share a very similar timeline. In the 1960's there was a study being conducted on Asian Leopard Cats (ALCs) to discover why they seem to have a natural resistance to FeLV and other such feline diseases. They were bred with domestic cats to see if this immunity could be passed on. The result was the first bengal cats (or leopardettes, as they were called at the time). So even bengals started out as an 'accident' so to speak. Also, they were accepted into registries to be shown at around the same time as ocicats (the 1980's).
Bengals are domestic cats.

The siamese genetics are very interesting. I'll have to read up on that.
post #11 of 23
I'll find the article about the genetics/siamese/spotted tabby and post it - its at home and I don't remember which ocicat url mentioned it
post #12 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffanyjbt View Post
To say that ocicats are "the only spotted domestic breed selectively bred to emulate the cats of the wild." is just not true.
Actually, that is true. The Ocicat is the only 100% domestic spotted breed to emulate a wild cat.
post #13 of 23
Thanks!

Do ocicats have rosettes? I've seen a few pictures where they appear to have some arrow head spots with tri-coloring in them. I also read an intersting article this morning about how ocicat breeders are using classic tabbys more often now to get the bigger spots/rosettes. Have you seen any like this?

I love the look of the clear coat and stark contrast in the non-ticked bengals. But I think ticking looks very wild. At the cat show I went to this weekend I saw some somalis (longhaired abys). They looked like little lions (and I LOVE their tails! )! The abys there were pretty wild looking too (and ACTIVE!!!)

I didn't see any ocicats, but the show in January should have more people, so maybe I'll see a few?
post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadie's Mom View Post
Actually, that is true. The Ocicat is the only 100% domestic spotted breed to emulate a wild cat.
The article didn't say 100% domestic in that sentence. Bengals are domestic cats.

Is that an oci in your siggy? She pretty (but then I really do love ALL spotted cats!)
post #15 of 23
The official CFA stance on Bengals:

CFA does not recognize the Bengal as a breed, and has not been approached by a group of Bengal breeders to do so. However, it is our understanding that the Bengal breed has some "wild" or "non-domestic" cats in its recent heritage, and CFA currently has the following policy in effect. This policy would most likely have a negative effect on the acceptance of the Bengal as a breed:

"The Cat Fanciers' Association, Inc., does not encourage or promote the breeding of non-domestic (wild) cats of any species to any domesticated cats.

Furthermore, The Cat Fanciers' Association, Inc. will not consider for registration the offspring of such a breeding."

http://www.cfa.org/faq/faq-breeder.html

They also say they consider all bengals to be 'feral':

The Household Pet category at CFA shows is intended for random-bred cats. Although the Bengal is not registered by CFA, they are involved in a formal breeding program. Additionally, it is our understanding that the Bengal breed has some "wild" or "non-domestic" cats in its recent heritage. Even though the wild cats may be several generations in the background, CFA still considers the Bengal cat to be "feral" and CFA's show rules prohibit feral cats to be shown at a CFA show.

http://www.cfa.org/faq/faq-shows.html
post #16 of 23
Ocicats only come in spots - not rosettes. They are NOT using the classic tabbys in the breeding. The only outcrosses allowed will be abys till 2015. ASH are no longer used.

Spotted are the only ones allowed to be shown, the other types are pets and not used in breeding - they are by-products. Some of the ticked tabbys or ghost spotting are used, but not the classics.

The spots are not random - they form a classic bulls eye pattern on the sides. Originally there were some mack tabbys, but they tended to break up the spots to longer spots which was not desirable, so they eliminated the mctabbys and only used the classic.
post #17 of 23
Yes, Sadie is a hot chocolate Ocicat. In referring to "domestic," I mean that the Ocicat does not have any wild blood in it.
post #18 of 23
Was the classic tabby ever used in breeding?
post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadie's Mom View Post
Actually, that is true. The Ocicat is the only 100% domestic spotted breed to emulate a wild cat.

is what I understood /....

Is that baby in the pic a chocolate ocicat??
post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sadie's Mom View Post
Yes, Sadie is a hot chocolate Ocicat. In referring to "domestic," I mean that the Ocicat does not have any wild blood in it.
Chocolate? Thats what you're getting, right GoldenKitty?

Domestic is really only a description about temperament. If thats the case, many bengals are domesticated and many other cat breeds currently accepted by the CFA are not.

If you mean genetically, then both ocicats and bengals (and every other 'domestic' cat including ferals) are Felis silvestris catus. The asian leopard cat 'wild blood' only accounts for 8-12% of a bengals genetic makeup at the F4 level.
post #21 of 23
Tiff,

Here's the link regarding the tabby/siamese I was talking about. Its the 5th paragraph after the heading "About the Colors". It talks about how the ocicat color genetics are gotten, etc.

http://www.totaldesignz.com/ocicats/ocicat-genetics.htm

Yes we will be getting a chocolate spotted - hopefully a "hot" one; she's sending us pictures soon

The classic tabby was used from the silver ASH to bring in the silver gene for the colors. The ASH is not used any more, but the classic tabby gene is still in the pool
post #22 of 23
Thanks for the link!

Can't wait to see picks of your new kitty. Will you be showing him/her?

The silver ASH was used to bring silver into the bengal breed as well.
post #23 of 23
No, he's a pet. I got spoiled with all the close shows on the east coast. I can't see driving 3-4 or more hrs for shows around here (in MN) - not worth time/energy/money unless you know you have a cat that will win.

With Spooky (my rex) I knew he'd final in almost every ring
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