Breeder References

Yet another question from me...I feel like the annoying younger sister that always wants to follow her big siblings everywhere . I know the basics of finding reputable breeders. Many will have references available. However, my concern is that if there have been complaints, how do you find out? TICA, CFA, etc. are not the ethical breeder police , and I have come to understand that breeders do not like to say bad things about other breeders (even if it's the truth).....So is there some way to find out if there have been problems or complaints? Thanks for your input!

Carlie

Your best bet is to search around for a breeder of the cat breed you like on the internet. Check out their website, see what they say on there, how their cats look, what their breeding philosophy is. If you like what you see, ask to visit them or at a minimum talk to them on the phone.
If you get a good vibe from all of this, then before committing to buy a kitten, ask for at least three references. People who have already purchased kittens that would be willing to talk to you. Call them up and see what they have to say.
If you do all this, you will have covered your bases as best you can.

Wow that's tough. I have shown for over 30 yrs and being in the show hall and listening, you learn about good/bad breeders.

Not sure how you would go about finding complaints about a certain breeder otherwise. I know its not much help. Usually if you can meet in person and look at their cats/home you could tell. Of if a breeder's prices are much higher/lower then other breeders prices that might tell you something.

I know when I was checking out ocicat breeders I emailed and asked prices, etc. Most of them were about the same for pets - so I knew that it was the "going" price.

Then I look at their cats (on webpages) or in person (at a show) and gage that way if they are a good/bad breeder. You'd be surprised at what some of the breeder's "pet" kittens look like they bring to sell. I've seen kittens with runny eyes or sneezing. Those people I would NOT buy a cat from, no matter how cute.

I've given references a few times. On at least 2 occasions at a later date, the buyer was unhappy with their purchase. They then called me to complain. I was being blamed because I gave the reference. One couldn't find the breeder, (they had moved) I was chewed out extensively for not keeping track of this breeder for them, 8 mo. after their purchase. The other wanted their money back for an inheirted problem. Only they had purchased a pet from someone's first litter. This first time breeder wasn't really interested in breeding again to replace the defective pet.
So with that in mind, I don't give references unless someone really gets pushy, or has no way to come to my house. I consider it an invasion of privcy to expect a kitten buyer to answer their phone at any time of day to give someone a reference on a kitten, when they aren't being paid for their time.
Some breeders may not want to talk, but a whole lot of them are real competitive & will tell you all sorts of horrible things about another breeder, that have no basis in any facts. Cat breeders are particularly bad about bashing other breeders.
I think it's reasonable to ask to talk to the veterinarian after they have done a well kitten exam on the kitten you are interested in. Vets are busy people also, so you would want the birthdate of the kitten, the dams name, & know it's color. Then you could ask about that specific kitten, & did the vet exam that litter.
Only once in my life did I mail copies of happy pet owners letters/pedigree's/vet name & phone number to a party that wanted a bunch of references. They proceeded to bounce a deposit check on me.

I cannot recommend this enough - VISITING the breeder before putting any deposit down on a cat. We spoke with one over the phone who was intelligent and sweet, and her website was good and she had beautiful cats. Well, we went to visit, and the place was DISGUSTING. The cats weren't raised underfoot, which we didn't like. We were so relieved that we saw the place before putting any money down.

I think the first thing to do would be to research the breed so you can recognize good breeding lines and then visit the breeder. I personally think other than a sick cat which can happen with anyone including a reputable breeder female cats and kittens shouldn't be caged. I have heard some breeders keep the toms caged but they aren't the cages like we think of. They are large floor to ceiling cages with multiple levels of shelves for the cat to use and that a person can actually walk into. There is always going to be a level of tom cat smell but it shouldn't be overwhelming or even take your breath away.

I distrust buyer references because honestly, do you think any breeder is going to give you the name of a person who had a bad experience with them? I don't think so. They are only going to give you the most glowing, happiest, satisfied people as a reference, don't you think? Most likely the best you can do is call whatever registry association the breeder lists with and ask if they have an avenue for you to be able to search for breeder complaints. They may not, but you never know - there might be someone who can help there.

As for visiting the cattery, I wholeheartedly agree. You can tell a lot more about how the cats are cared for by seeing for yourself than anything else. It won't tell you if the cats are of good, healthy bloodlines ... you would have to do a lot of potentially expensive and time-consuming research in order to accurately determine that ... but if you go into a breeder's home and see filthy, overflowing litter boxes, food molding in the bowls, water fouled, the cats look unhealthy, the odor brings tears to your eyes and gags you - run away quicksmart. If they keep a whole male, then EXPECT to smell him. It shouldn't be overwhelming, but it will be detectable. It is the nature of the beast and has to be taken into account.

As for caging ... I know there are several breeders here who claim they do not cage their males. OK, so maybe they don't. But ... the majority of breeders who keep a male do use an enclosure of some sort. Whether it is a separate room or cage-type room built within a room ... whatever. Breeders do cage males. It does not mean they are bad breeders or that you shouldn't buy a kitten from them. It is a common practice (at least in the US anyway) and should not deter you from getting a kitten.

Queens and kittens are sometimes caged for a short while from birth until the kittens are mostly consistant with using the litter box. Again, this should not be a determining factor when considering whether or not to buy a kitten. There are all kinds of different breeders/people and as many different ways to do things among them - some might use for instance, a double show cage or similar set up for their queening cages. Others might have a designated space in a bedroom of their home. I know some who provide a cardboard box and then discard it after the kittens are older. I don't know what other breeders do, probably whatever works best for them I suppose, but I use an extra large dog crate as my kitten cage. ~My queen chose it~ to deliver her 2nd litter. When I tried to move them out into the more suitable nest I had provided for her, she moved them right back into that dog crate and it has been her place of preference to have her babies ever since. What should deter you in terms of caging is a litter of 10 to 12 week old kittens constantly confined in cages. They should have free roam of at least one whole room if not the whole house.

If you've gotten this far and are comfortable with everything else about the breeder, the time now comes to be choosing a kitten. You will want to sit on the floor amongst the kittens and let them come to you. If you reach out and try to grab one, you will most likely find they will be skittish around you and you will not get a true sense of their normal demeanor. Just sit quietly, maybe have a toy or treat in your hands to offer should one get nosey about you and just observe them. They should be active, curious, easy to engage in play behavior ... they should appear to be clean and of a weight proportionate to their size. They should not be sneezing a lot nor should you see goopy eyes. They should not be scratching a lot, digging at their ears or grooming their behinds a lot. Permit the kittens to behave normally and then just wait a little bit. More than likely, one (or more) will seek you out and try to engage you in some way. If you are lucky enough to have one decide that you are a great thing upon which to curl up, purr and take a little nap, then consider yourself chosen and take that kitten home with you. *smile*

Thanks, everyone. I have adopted a couple of purebred cats, and I made a point of personally visiting each breeder I was considering adopting from. I actually decided against one breeder because she had three separate litters of kittens confined in several cages in a single, small room. In addition, the oldest kittens (about 12 weeks) were kept in the cage for all but an hour or two a day.

I didn't bother checking out references because it is obvious that no unhappy pet owners, breeders, etc. would be included, so it seems kind of pointless.

There are obvious clues, such as a really disgusting environment, that turn people off. However, I've just been wondering out the more subtle signs that separate an excellent breeder from a "so-so" breeder. Visiting the cattery and spending time with the kittens seem to be good ways of getting a sense of this.

The breeder of my bengal that will be coming home in a few weeks lives in Montana... I'm in Indiana. Needless to say, I have not visited her home/cattery. So how do I know she's OK? Several reasons...

• She is TICA and TIBCS certified with their highest honors
• Her site is very detailed and informative
• I've spoken to her via e-mail and over the phone (good vibes)
  
• I 'shopped' around for breeders before deciding on her. When I informed the other breeders that I had made a choice, they all told me it was a VERY good choice.
• I belong to several e-mail lists, and her bengals are often praised there
• I've seen how she gets along with other breeders via these lists' archives, and she is very respectful and knowledgeable. Her main goal is the betterment of the breed (specifically marbles)
• My bengals father is a DGC and many other breeders remark on his special qualities
• I liked her contract
• I saw many pictures of the dam and sire, and they have both received praises in the 'bengal cat community'
• I've aquainted myself with the breed standard, and I think my kitten fits very well with that standard
• My breeder is a really nice lady, and I can tell... I just have a good feeling about her
  
• She sends me updates and photos of my new kitten

So even though I'm not able to visit, I feel really good about the transaction. I put a lot of work and research into this decision. If I could have visited her cattery, I would have, but that just wasn't possible. I still feel that I've made the best choice though.

(next stop, convincing my husband to get one of Kai's spotted offspring from that handsome Jack! )

As far as cattery visiting. If its possible to visit then do so, but sometimes the cattery is too far away. How do you deal with that?

I will say that if you want to visit before getting a kitten and the breeder comes up with too many excuses as to why they can't make arrangements for the visit - then don't bother - its not a cattery you want to buy from.

My ocicat breeder is a few states away (but only a 6 hr drive) so we will be visiting to pick up the kitten. She didn't require a deposit as of yet. But she has no problems with us visiting in the middle of the week since she shows a lot and is gone most weekends.

The other ocicat breeders were way to far from us to visit them - we'd have to rely on trust and what we've seen/emailed or talked on the phone to make a decision. Its hard at times to pick a good breeder.

Originally Posted by GoldenKitty45

Wow that's tough. I have shown for over 30 yrs and being in the show hall and listening, you learn about good/bad breeders.

Not sure how you would go about finding complaints about a certain breeder otherwise. I know its not much help. Usually if you can meet in person and look at their cats/home you could tell. Of if a breeder's prices are much higher/lower then other breeders prices that might tell you something.

I know when I was checking out ocicat breeders I emailed and asked prices, etc. Most of them were about the same for pets - so I knew that it was the "going" price.

Then I look at their cats (on webpages) or in person (at a show) and gage that way if they are a good/bad breeder. You'd be surprised at what some of the breeder's "pet" kittens look like they bring to sell. I've seen kittens with runny eyes or sneezing. Those people I would NOT buy a cat from, no matter how cute.

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Yes, attend cat shows. You can get to know some breeders and learn about the breeds of kittens you are most interested in all at the same time.Cat registries (such as CFA) can tell you when and where local cat shows will be held.Of course there are other registries but since my cat is registered with CFA I can give you the phone number to call which is: 732-528-9797 or you can go to cfainc.org.

I think this site (and maybe others like it, I wouldn't know), is a good resource to find reputable breeders. Especially if you spend any amount of time on here to see how knowledgeable individuals are; their responses to different questions; and what they share on how they keep their particular animals.

I know that anyone can say anything in a forum such as this, but you do learn a lot about breeders by there post and their passion for their particular animals. And the passion they have for their particular breed.

I also appreciate the breeders I've observed on this site who are quick to correct others when their breeding practices seem not to be up to par. And though what they have to say may be harsh and honest, it isn't hostile. The hostility thing kind of turns me off. That's just me.

Although our finances don't allow it at this time, my husband and I are confident what breed of kitten we want next and who we want it from. In part because of the observations made on this site.

Hello,
I am new in this forum and I would like to ask information about a maine coon breeder from Texas.
Can anybody help me?
Her name is Debbie Harbur, and the cattery is Coonkitts.
Does anybody know her?

Welcome to TCS ...

I sould suggest contacting her thru her website( most breeders have those anymore

I tried, but she doesn't answer to the e-mail and the telephone doesn't work.

keep trying thru email or look up another breeder who may be more prompt ( though I would give her till after new years as it is the holidays )

One month ago she wrote that have moved and that would move the telephone but she didn't still order me the number.


Sorry for my poor english!!!

Moving a cattery and holiday stuff ... I would email her again but not worry till after the first of the year...

Am,

I think I'd look elsewhere. There are lots of maine coon breeders. In my opinion, its a yellow flag - not red, but I still think there are other breeders out there that would be more responsive.

My ocicat breeder usually doesn't reply to her emails till Tuesday/Wed. the following week, so I'm not worried about not getting a reply.

We pick up our oci next week



Tiff,

A lot of what you experienced in good breeders is like my oci breeder. I've gotten good comments about her and the cats. Also did a little research - in the past 5-10 yrs she has constantly placed Best or 2nd Best of Breed with her oci adults and kittens NATIONALLY. So the consistency is there. And I've done some researching on pedigrees - many of her cats are in others pedigrees too.

The problem is that, in August I bought a kitty of her, I deposited the money in her paypal account, but I didn't receive the kitty.
As the kitty chosen was white, I asked if it was deaf. She said that not.
After I paid, she said that the kitty was deaf.
She sent me a pedigree of an adult cat.
Then, I asked for the money back.
Already one month ago she doesn't answer my e-mails and the phone that is in her website doen't work.
I would like to know if could you help me to find her.