Will this food encourage crystals?

Originally Posted by cloud_shade

Next time, can you ask your vet to do a cystocentesis to get the urine sample? It sounds like you are collecting it at home and then taking it in--is that correct? The longer the urine is outside the body prior to testing, the less accurate the results will be--more crystals may form as the sample cools down, for example.

Also, what symptoms is he currently having? The mere presence of crystals doesn't always equal UTI.

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We took a sample yesterday afternoon, he peed and I' brought it in immediately. They had it within 1/2 hour. I'm waiting to hear the results this am. Sluggo just went pee and he had this 3/4 inch diameter of crystals! Looked like glitter, the poor boy! I just gave him some canned Natural Balance Venison and Green Pea this morning and he ate it!! That has a much lower magnesium value. Maybe I can get him to switch to wet and things will get better? Btw, at the moment he's not having any other symptoms other than the crystals. He did have very bloody urine and would squat and nothing would come out but a tiny drop of urine a few weeks back. We treated it with 2 weeks of Baytril and that went away. He won't use his litter box to pee in though, so he has a new litterbox with just newspaper down to reteach him. That's when I started noticing all this sparkly stuff in his urine. Couldn't see it in the litter.

Science diet is not the only Rx diet out there- there are many other brands to try. I would ask the vet if they can order something else in for him. IMO you are playing with fire by feeding him non-Rx foods. His crystal problem may develop quickly into a blocked cat emergency.

Originally Posted by Dr. Doolittle

Science diet is not the only Rx diet out there- there are many other brands to try. I would ask the vet if they can order something else in for him. IMO you are playing with fire by feeding him non-Rx foods. His crystal problem may develop quickly into a blocked cat emergency.

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I'm agreeing with you on the "playing with fire" sentence. This is what my vet just emailed me:
"Looked at Sluggo's U/A results--the pH is up again in the alkaline range
(abnormal & better environment to support crystals). He's got some red
cells again & lots of struvite or triple phosphate crystals. I left on your
voice message that I looked back & the first time we looked at urine back in
August, he had lots of struvite crystals but had only been on amoxicillin at
that time, not Baytril. Didn't have a chance to look up Baytril crystals
yet, will call Hill's on Monday. How's he feeling? The crystals can be
found in normal urine, but in a young male cat & with an increased pH, I'm
very concerned that he may develop grit & plug up his urethra. This
condition is what c/d is made to prevent. I'll call the nutritionist at the
vet school too & ask about other diets if she knows."
So, hopefully we'll get some answers on Monday as to how to proceed. I'll keep everyone posted.

Sounds like your vet is willing to figure this out with you and SLuggo

Originally Posted by sharky

Sounds like your vet is willing to figure this out with you and SLuggo

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She's a really awesome vet Sharky. Two years ago I had a pug dog that had to have surgery on his neck. Well it went bad and I had to take round the clock care of him for two months. He could barely move. Anyway, she would come over on her days off and teach me how to do IV's and do his catheter and things like that. She went WAY above and beyond what she had to do. Since then we've been friends. That's why I trust her to help Sluggo. Even though she's not very keen on nutrition, I know she'll search to find the answers. So, keep you fingers crossed that we can find the answer for Sluggo's problem soon!

:fingercrossed:

I just want to add that my friend has a cat that has horrible Struvite crystal issues, and Eagle Pack Hairball formula is the only non-RX food that she doesn't get any crystals on. Hope this can help

Originally Posted by jlphilli

I just want to add that my friend has a cat that has horrible Struvite crystal issues, and Eagle Pack Hairball formula is the only non-RX food that she doesn't get any crystals on. Hope this can help

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Thanks, I'll look it up and see what my vet thinks!

Corn is actually a good acidifier for cat with sturvite crystals .... BUT SLuggo sounds like he has them really bad and RX may be the first step .,..

I will answer the pm ... I need to obtain the okay from another member to direct you to her as she knows way more than I do

Originally Posted by Lndscpsam

Yes on the cysitis and that's why he's getting Cosequin sprinkled on his food every day now. I don't remember his pH level, but I think he had the struvite crystals. I just took another urine sample to the vet a couple hours ago and am waiting to hear the results. Btw, Science Diet gives Sluggo diahrea, so I don't want him on that. Before this whole UTI problem started about 8 mos. ago Sluggo was eating Nature's Variety Raw and doing fantastic. Then one day he had a UTI. So I'm not sure which direction to go. Btw, Sluggo doesn't like canned food! Thanks.

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Sounds just like Polly. Obviously if the hill's gives him diarrhea, he can't eat that. My vet mentioned that there are other prescription foods. Polly does eat wet food, but will meow for her dry. Try adding water to Sluggo's dry food, and see if he will eat it this way. I didn't think Polly would like it, but she still eats the food this way. Just remember that you have to refrigerate uneaten food right away if you do this. You can't add water to dry food and then leave it out all day (I think).

P.S. How is Sluggo today? The poor guy! Polly says she sympathizes with what he's going through.

What kind of Science Diet is he on?

Originally Posted by batgirl2good

What kind of Science Diet is he on?

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He isn't on any Science Diet at the moment. He was on the C/D for a month, but he had diahrea the whole time and it didn't even change his urine sample results. Right now he's eating Natural Balance Venison and Green Pea. I'm sure his food will be changing here real soon though. Just waiting to hear what my vet finds out. Btw, Sluggo is doing fine at the moment. He seems more aloof than usual, but it might be because he got a lion cut on Friday, so I think he's chilly.

Originally Posted by GingersMom

I'm going to hijack here to ask a stupid question: I use clumping litter. How would I know if there are crystals in the urine when I'm scooping the clumps? What should I look for?

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Struvite and calcium oxalate crystals have to be identified microscopically. It's not possible to view them with the naked eye.

Me and my boys are also keeping our fingers crossed!!!

I went through the similar dilemma of feeding non-RX food with lower magnesium and ash vs. RX food, and decided to feed Pico the prescription food. If he ever gets blocked, I don't want to look back and say, "Oh, I wish I had fed him the RX food...". After having done a lot of reading and label screening, I decided to put him on the Royal Canin (Walthams for you guys in the US) Urinary S/O and he has made the transition well. He is on 1/2 can wet + 1/2 cup dry per day and gobbles it up. His 6 week urinalysis came back clean, so we are thrilled. In addition to giving both of our cats the canned food, we're also adding a splash of water into their bowls to increase their water intake. Pico's never been a big water drinker (probably contributing to his initial UTI), so this has helped a lot. Best of luck!

Dear Landscpsam and Sluggo:

I don't have personal experience with that food but agree that Science Diet is junk. My Samuda battled UTI's for years until we moved here to the desert from a very polluted urban area (between a Superfund cleanup site and a sewage treatment plant and the nation's largest landfill -- how's that for toxic?) and for some reason, he's been FINE ever since, leading me to believe it was the water that caused his problems (it was well water!!!) I tried bottled water on him but he only wanted tap water. Doesn't your doctor have Sluggo on Methigel? If not, you may want to ask why not. I feed mostly Nutro Max Cat or Nutro Natural or Nutro Complete Care, augmented with Natural Balance, Optimum Nature's Recipe, and some ProPlan and Triumph. The common wisdom used to be avoidance of ash and magnesium; Triumph is low in both, and known as a specific diet for cats with urinary tract problems. You may want to copy this out and take it to your vet and ask? GOOD LUCK!!!

Originally Posted by Tarasgirl06

Doesn't your doctor have Sluggo on Methigel? If not, you may want to ask why not.

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What is Methigel?

Ask your veterinarian about Methigel. It is a gel methionine supplement (something cats with chronic UTI's often need) designed to be given to your cat to prevent the formation of struvite crystals in the urine. I'm surprised your vet has not recommended it!

Originally Posted by Tarasgirl06

Ask your veterinarian about Methigel. It is a gel methionine supplement (something cats with chronic UTI's often need) designed to be given to your cat to prevent the formation of struvite crystals in the urine. I'm surprised your vet has not recommended it!

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Really? I've never heard of it. Very interesting. Struvite is the one they get when it's too basic, right?

Originally Posted by PurrPaws

Really? I've never heard of it. Very interesting. Struvite is the one they get when it's too basic, right?

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Yup on the struvite.. it is the common one and happens when the urine isnt acidic enough... The gel is good but there is debate on how it can affect overall health( ie some folks avoiding food s that contain it) ... I personallyfeed a food with a low to moderate leval and the one eating it has no UTI issues ...

Sorry, I don't know what you mean by "too basic", nor do I know the answer to your question. It's probably best run by your vet, or you may want to check out a veterinary website.